Popular Mac Developer Slams Apple for 'Sad State of Macintosh Hardware'

[curtvaughan]

Maybe they should spin off the mac division into a wholly owned subsidiary! Ha, never would happen.

I think it would be great if the Mac line went that route. Maybe they could talk Bill Gates into coming out of retirement to get Macs back up to shape. He probably has more of an idea, being his chief competitor back in the day, of "what Steve Jobs would do." The two guys actually gained a grudging respect for each other in Jobs' later years, and Gates was genuinely upset when Steve passed.

 

[Bin Cook]

People are keeping them longer because there isn't anything worth upgrading to, which is half the story. People would upgrade if there was something compelling to upgrade to. I know I'd upgrade from my 2012 MBP to a new one if there was something compelling, which there is not since in my opinion, they've made way too many compromises in functionality in the name of fashion (thinness).

As for the $100, part of it is because apple still sells a super old Air as "new" which is creating a false base price.

Complete agree.

My iMac is now 11 years old and there is nothing to replace it with. Well there is, should I be inclined to spend in excess of £2000. But why would I do that when this iMac cost me £1000 in 2007? One of the unwritten agreements was costs remained similar over time.

Can’t help but think the decision to stop users upgrading is now coming home to roost for Apple. Short term boost to the bottom line but long term it makes people weary.

Buy an iMac now and I have to get it maxed out and pay the Apple tax up front. There is no room for it to grow with me; would we be having half these conversations if users could bump their RAM for a few years usage, like in the old days? I honestly think not.

And the problem with deciding to max it out is the buying decision stops being mine alone. My wife has to be involved and then it becomes a discussion. And discussions are often adjourned until anouther day. In my case, I’ve been waiting for a compelling iMac release for FOUR YEARS.

And it’s time to retire mine. Spinning beach balls now more and more common so with regret I’ve started looking to move back to Windows, and started the groundwork to migrate our phones and other devices.

It was said earlier; but Apple dumped me, not the other way around.

 

[DesertNomad]

If we find ourselves near this time next year... still mostly WAITING (what's another 350 or so days, right?) ... I wonder if most Apple developers could be moved to rally together, basically print the above image on shirts (maybe with the days-since-updated numbers) and wear them to WWDC19. I suspect Apple would get the message much louder and much clearer than almost any other way (except the masses protesting the Mac neglect with their wallets vs. all Apple products (including the profit cash cow)).

I know: will never happen, but just imagine Mac fans.

I've been developing Mac software since 1989. I think it is time for a group of us long-time developers to write a letter to Tim Cook - it could even be Quentin Carnicelli's post. There are a lot of us around that can remember when MacWorld Magazine was 300 pages each month and Color QuickDraw was new.

August, 1989: http://vintageapple.org/macworld/pdf/MacWorld_8908_August_1989.pdf

I bought this magazine in Milwaukee and read it while on a bus to Chicago to catch a flight back to Nevada. I still remember the cover.

 

[curtvaughan]

They make a public explanation every quarter. The ROI on money invested in the Mac line is no where near what the level is for the iPhone. It really is all about the money. Apple customers are speaking with their $$. They want iPhones not Macs.

This is a self-fulfilling prophecy, as Apple's neglect of Macs has pushed longtime Mac users into other options. I suspect that you are correct about the current Apple customers, which court Apple only for phones, tablets, and watches.

 

[Arran]

Apple has less than half the number of employees as IBM. IBM makes nowhere near as much money as Apple does. Also consider how many employees of Apple work at their stores, which while important don't contribute to the engineering of their products and software. It's amazing Apple is able to produce as much new hardware and software as they do now with the workforce they have. They must be working the people to the bone.

Which makes you wonder how naturally resilient and sustainable the current state of affairs is.

 

[R10k]

...but Adobe is so far behind the development of hardware capabilities - they piss me off to no end. They're way behind the ball in terms of multi-core efficiency and GPU acceleration, especially in terms of photography editing — it's not even funny.

...Which is why I use Capture One Pro. It can use up to 10 cores and utilize GPU acceleration effectively. But it certainly hasn't outstripped the potential of hardware, considering there are 18-core CPU options, with the ability to bridge multiple GPUs...

That might be true, except Adobe is years ahead of Capture Pro One when it comes to software. It's algorithms for highlight recovery (for example) are just so much better it isn't even funny.

 

[amegicfox]

one of Tim Cook most ignorant statement:
"Why would you buy a PC anymore?"

Millions of people who use a Mac for a living,
need BIG SCREEN, POWERFUL and EXPANDABLE computers

People who are the go or all they do is read news/weather and take picts all day,
can use an iPhone/iPad.

I have a 43" LG 43UD79-B a spectacular piece of tech that only cost $600
I put it next to the iMac 27" and the iMac looks like a laptop.
furthermore iMac screens besides being MIRRORS have a nasty yellow hue
that will make your eyes hurt after just 30 minutes
with the LG 43' I can stay 12 hours straight and it's all fine.

to run a tech company you need someone who adores technology,
uses it and understands it.

none of these kind of people are currently running Apple

 

[nvmls]

I disagree about touchbar. Hard coded function keys are the most useless thing we have going now. This isn't 1980s IBM PCs here, the function key is long dead. At least with the touchbar, you can make that line of keys somewhat more useful again, even of its underutilized.

1980 IBM PCs? Pretty much every other brand including Lenovo offers more reliable keyboards than Apple at the moment.

Function key is long dead? lol I'd give you a little tour of over 1500 devs/multimedia/network pros we have the privilege of working with, and so you can make your arguments based off real world scenario and not some Apple PR smoke. You can even show us all your little finger bar tricks & tips, we are absolutely open to change, we've really tried to like it!

For emoji's it stands out like no other, but we have to get some real work done so we are more focused towards esc key, macros and hardware manipulation on a direct click, not a tap then slide/tap again or whatever, why would we wanna have to look at another screen for button functions/sliders when we have already an amazing screen which includes all this already? Apple will claim to know what's best for you, clearly since 2011 they've had no clue other than kids/teens audience. Have a look at the latest keynotes, they are hilarious if you consider people pay to get trolled like that.

 

[aaronhead14]

Glad someone's speaking out. Mac hardware is so behind right now. Give us our modular Mac Pro already!

 

[Radeon85]

As much as I like the iPhone, watch and iPad, Mac computers I'll never buy. Underpowered and overpriced.

I will always build my own computers, at least if something eventually fails I can change a part quickly instead or trecking down to Apple store.

 

[mkwilson68]

Could not agree more. Apple's leadership team should be ashamed of this situation. When your own loyal developers are calling you out, and the stats are this bad (has there ever been a less active hardware release schedule in the entire history of computing? Serious question.) it's nothing short of professional negligence. Apple, most of us rely on the Mac for our work, and I know it's an enormous surprise but you're letting us down, badly.
[doublepost=1529163404][/doublepost]

Part of the issue is the state of the industry. People aren’t buying home computers at the rate they previously did. It’s now possible to live entirely with your mobile devices. In some ways the Mac (and PC) are relics in the consumer world. The situation will look more dire in 10 years. Only dinosaurs like me will probably be buying another Mac.

Simply not true... only a tiny, tiny percentage of productive work gets done on mobile devices (I don't mean email and comms) and work is a pretty big part of life

 

[Arran]

The way I see it, Apple is all grown up now. Just like when you are an adult and have mouths to feed, you can't afford to be as cavalier as you were back when you were a teenager with nothing to lose. You have settled down with a stable job, your finances are in order, and with it comes its own share of responsibilities and obligations.

That’s an inward looking analogy and I’m not sure it should be applied to a tech company that needs to stay relevant to exist.

The outside world hasn’t slowed down. Nor has it said it’s had enough and just wants to coast downhill into retirement and beyond now. Quite the reverse.

 

[nvmls]

As far as MacBook Pro prices in America I really don’t understand the problem. You’ve always had to pay around $2k for a well specced MacBook unless you only buy the cheapest base model. And if you buy the cheapest base model you really cannot complain about performance.

This is like going into a MB or BMW dealer and expecting the turbo V8 trim for $40k. It is the same thing with electronics. You want that huge 2TB SSD, you need to pay for it.

The problem is not that, but the fact that, aside from paying overpriced unreliable toys, consumers like yourself show up on an internet forum and justify that showing off your gadgets on a signature as if they were some kind of "life success". People here are trying to run big companies which are heavily invested on Apple and are getting screwed trying to get the work done, so please show some respect to legit complaints.

Since when a customer can't expect high performance on a premium product because they chose a "base model".. ffs.

 

[Williesleg]

What do you expect from Timmy Cook.
He said himself Apple is a services company.

Like General Electric and IBM.

So sad. Not coming back unless they fire him.

 

[bladerunner2000]

Why is anyone stunned? And why does it take a developer to say that when the entire Mac community, including everyone here at MacRumors SHOULD be saying that?

Apple has been producing and selling GARBAGE ever since 2012;

• Garbage components
• Garbage mobile GPUs in desktops
• Throttled CPUs (lol)
• Soldered everything
• Zero upgrade path
• Even components that can be accessed have NO superior replacements
• Limited ports (USB-C only on those shiny new MacBooks?)
• AND A HIGH PRICE TAG ON EVERYTHING (5k starting price for an iMac? LOL!)

Why is this developer saying what's the reality instead of the actual consumers and members of MacRumors? WHY?

 

[kazmac]

Could you imagine how many more Macs Apple would sell if they refreshed their lines more frequently, and did more than say something every few months about how important the Macs are to them?

Intel's chip production problems and slowing sales market aside; in most cases, Apple has proven if they build it, they will sell it. They're selling a lot of Macs now.

I need a new Mac to replace this aging iMac: between lack of desktop hardware choices and software snafus, I will wait until there is something better. I am grateful my iMac still works well enough for me to get done what I need to.

We listen to spew about pipelines and how important the Mac Mini is to Apple for awhile now; how much longer will it take?

 

[HVDynamo]

Just wanted you guys to know that I rarely post, but I am your common-man Mac user. I don't do serious computing. Not a gamer. So my mid 2011 Mac mini is fine with me. It's slugs along at times, and my wife has one, that had a problem that apple quickly fixed free. I paid $400 for one of them refurb, $500 for the other one, added 4gb Ram to total 8, $200. That's six years of pleasurable, fast enough, reliable Macs, for $1100. I know that mini has not been refreshed for a long time, but I don't care because I don't need one! When I do, I will get some value from my old minis (admittedly probably just $50 each) and go forward with what is best at the time. We are definitely get a MacBook Air next time, and if I had the dough, I would buy the year old 13.3" Air for like $850 tomorrow and not looked back. People want to keep Macs longer and longer, because they still perform well for everything we need! OK, maybe Apple spends way too much resources on the phone, but the hardware they produce is really viable for users like us. Calls for Apple's "head on a stick" for not updating (insert your Mac here) at such and such a time, is really silly.

Maybe they are trying to get people to hold on to their machines longer, just like the new iOS 12 is going to do for older phones. Who knows? Not that many people care. I read these comments a lot if I am interested in the subject.

I get good information from this board, and I enjoy it.

Happy Father's Day!

This doesn't account for the people who actually want/need to buy something now who don't want to pay inflated prices for years old tech. If I bought the new Mac mini now and 10 years is now a good expected life for the product, it's already 4 yeas old, so now that 10 years is 6, and all for the same price. It's a horrible value, and that's not even getting into how they gimped the mini in that last "update".

 

[stevemiller]

it seems there are many claiming "we don't need anything more to run the apps, games and media we consume" ... but you're forgetting the needs of the people creating those apps and games.

then there is another claim of "we've hit a limit with performance gains" even as there have been substantial gains in the latest generation of hardware which pretty much everyone except apple has adopted. which is to say nothing of usability and reliability concerns of late.

the true sentiment here seems to be a lot of causal home users don't want apple to address anyone beyond the casual home user, and app and media creators should look elsewhere. but when your platform alienates the people who create the content for your platform... well... I mean... this is literally an article about popular apple developers losing faith in the platform.

 

[geromi912]

Because MacBooks use 180W TDP GPUs

iMacs? iMac Pro’s? Mac Pro’s? Who talked about laptops here?

 

[AJ5790]

It's really sad. I wish apple would realize that, while the profits come from iGadgets, it's the technologies from the Mac that makes iOS possible, not the other way around.

I’m sure they haven’t thought of this at all. /s

 

[jaredm1]

Remember folks, it takes courage to lose ones way and still proclaim things are better than ever.

Apple’s focus is ‘consumers’ - and the largest target is for iOS so that’s where all of Apple’s attention goes.

Mac isn’t what drives profits or significant revenue for that matter. The bean counters don’t realise that it does however power the ecosystem and brand. Where would iOS be without developers buying macs to write apps for instance?

Thoroughly disillusioned with Apple the past few years, enough to plan a wholesale ditch of everything Apple from my life.

 

[oldmacs]

What? They don’t support them for that long? I think 8 years is a long time. 5 years is about the maximum a machine can last before it is obviously outdated. I think everyone agrees the Mac Mini is a disgrace but the rest of the lineup is not old. Kaby Lake isn’t old! And as far as the MBPs the design is still fresh. It hasn’t even been out for a full 2 years! People expecting Apple to release new hardware designs every year will be massively disappointed. They’ve never done this! Look at the iMac. Apart from losing some weight it’s still very much the same design from ‘09-‘10.

8 years is not a long period of time given how much Macs cost and really the lack of massive advances in power for that time. The Mac mini, MacBook Air and Mac Pro are all outdated. My MacBook Pro is 6 years old and still perfectly fine, and I use it for a lot. The only thing letting it down at this point is the rubbish integrated graphics. If I had the 15 inch with the discrete graphics I'd have nothing at all to complain about.

What are the compromises? Buying new USB-C peripherals? You will have to do it sooner or later. It is the future and you can already buy 3.1 gen 2 external SSDs for less than $200. I think people just have a phobia of saying goodbye to Type-A. That port is 20 years old! It had a great run but it’s time for it to die.

- Rubbish keyboard
- Loss of Magsafe
- No battery charge indicator
- No sleep/wake indicator
- Lack of reparability
- Lack of upgradability
- Expense of getting an SSD in the size I need (combined with lack of upgradability)
- No SD card reader
- I use ethernet regularly for work, I enjoy not carrying anything other than a mini display port to HDMI cable.

Plenty of compromises. I love that my Mac has been able to grow with me, moving from a 500GB HDD, to a 1TB HDD to a 1TB SSD, and the RAM from 4GB to 8GB now to 16GB, as my needs have changed. Buying a similarly specced MacBook Pro now would cost $4,399.00, (putting in 16GB of ram, 1TB of storage and the i7), not including a HDMI adaptor, an ethernet adaptor, USB A adaptors, an SD card reader, Firewire adaptor etc etc. My MacBook cost $1400 new, the RAM cost about $300 for both upgrades, HDD + SSD upgrades cost around $600, so total of $2300, and the only two adaptors I need are the HDMI and USB-C.

Anyway, they are the compromises for me, and there are too many of them (I am not suggesting these represent most users).

 

[Firebrand]

Anyone remember the Get a Mac ad campaign?

 

[ericwn]

Apple has already lost me and they'll keep losing more and more customers as their Mac hardware gets worse and worse. The choice of hardware is already too bad for me to keep using Macs, as much as I love macOS as an operating system (but even that is getting worse).

Yup, they lost you for sure. You were just coincidentally browsing on macrumors because they so lost you.

 

[curtvaughan]

They shouldn't underestimate the Mac just because of worldwide marketshare. Everyone in American colleges and everyone working in the Bay Area uses a MacBook Air/Pro. The two demographics that can be used to predict the future market.

The trend at the University of Texas at Austin, where I was in IT for 35 years, is that more and more students are shifting to PCs and Android phones in the last 3-4 years. The Apple laptops I now see being used still have the glowing Apple logo, meaning they are holding onto older machines. I'm starting to see more HP and Dell laptops than Apple laptops, and there was a definite shift toward Android phones after Apple abandoned the 3.5mm jack a few years ago on the iPhones. Another interesting phenomenon with the student MacBook and MBP users - it is becoming fashionable to cover up the Apple logos with various individual decals, almost as if they want to downplay the "trendiness" that has become associated with Apple. I agree with you that the shifting student market is a predictor of the near future with computer users.