Popular Mac Developer Slams Apple for 'Sad State of Macintosh Hardware'

[Abazigal]

We're not talking about an annual refresh. We're talking about a lack of refresh over five years (in the case of the Mac Pro). There is absolutely no reason for Apple to have not updated the Mac Pro sometime within the past five years

Did you even read the response you quoted? I just offered my opinions as to why the Mac Pro hasn't been updated (the iMac Pro is the Mac Pro update for all intents and purposes, and Apple has little incentive in updating a product line which constitutes a net loss for them).
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Cook seems to forget that most iPhone users are also Mac users. Without the Mac there’s less incentive to buy an iPhone.

You might want to revisit your definition of "most".

As a general estimate, out of every 10 iPhone customers, roughly 3 are also Mac users. And the majority of customers get an iPhone first, then decide what computer to buy. They don't buy a Mac first then decide to get an iPhone after the fact.

Maybe that was the case a decade ago (my first Apple product was a 2011 iMac), but I doubt that's the reality today.

 

[pl1984]

Did you even read the response you quoted? I just offered my opinions as to why the Mac Pro hasn't been updated (the iMac Pro is the Mac Pro update for all intents and purposes, and Apple has little incentive in updating a product line which constitutes a net loss for them).

Yes, I did. The reason Apple hasn't updated the Mac Pro is because they're not committed to the Mac Pro.

 

[Ladybug]

Waiting for the usual "Apple is committed to the [insert product here] and will address concerns in the near future" comment from Apple.
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Been using several dozen Windows machines at work since 2008. We've only lost one. And that was because a cleaner accidentally pushed it off a desk.

Macs on the other hand are constantly breaking down and given their much higher software restrictions / obsolecence over Windows they're becoming a very difficult platform to deploy.

I agree totally. Yes there are some cheaply made PC's out there, many in fact however my experience has been just the opposite. My last PC (gaming system)lasted me over 8 years until my house flooded and it took on about 2 inches of water. I let it dry out and it continued to chug along for an additional 3 months. Eventually I had to replace it...which was 2 years ago. I think people forget you can buy or put together high quality systems that aren’t junk. On the other hand I've had 2 iMacs that went out after 2 and 3 years and a MacBook that lasted 4 years before it bit the dust. I don't expect everything to last forever, just stating my experience.

 

[jonnysods]

Sit up and take notice Apple!!

 

[shpankey]

Take notice? Lol ... I can guarNtee you they couldn’t care less.

 

[Abazigal]

Yes, I did. The reason Apple hasn't updated the Mac Pro is because they're not committed to the Mac Pro.

I don't think Apple is ever committed to any single product. That's what makes them uniquely Apple - their ability to first start with the user experience and then work backwards from there to see how best to deliver that experience.

So where you think - just update the Mac mini and Mac Pro already and call it a day, Apple is thinking - let's see what people use these products for and how we can better deliver that experience. A lunchbox doesn't have to be a box (it just needs to fulfil that role of letting you carry your food around), just as a "Mac Pro" doesn't have to be a headless Mac tower just to let you do the sort of professional work that you do. Hence the iMac Pro.

So yes, I suppose a case could be made that Apple isn't particularly enthusiastic about the Mac Pro, but I do believe they are still passionate about the Mac ecosystem overall (relative to its importance in the overall Apple ecosystem at any rate). It's just that the manner in which they go about updating their Macs is at odds with the Mac users, and I don't think there is any good way of resolving this friction.

If anything, I fully expect Mac updates to get even more sporadic as time goes on, for all the reasons I have stated above, and the animosity with pro Mac users to grow even more, not less. The Mac is no longer the centre of the Apple ecosystem. iOS is. That rubicon has been crossed, and there's no going back.

 

[pl1984]

Take notice? Lol ... I can guarNtee you they couldn’t care less.

Exactly. They don't care. Which is why anyone who relies on the Macintosh should be making plans to leave it.

 

[G5isAlive]

This...

We're well past the point of "Don't Buy" for the 2013 Mac Pro. ...even with the price drop, the 8-core machine is still over-priced by $2,000 compared to a new 8-core workstation...

On top of that, it's listed $1,000 less than the base configuration of the iMac Pro...

2017 iMac Pro specs ($5,000 USD):
8GB Vega 56 video card
3.2 GHz CPU - with turbo boost up to 4.2GHz
32GB of 2666MHz DDR4 RAM
1TB Flash boot drive
5K Display

2013 iMac Pro's specs ($4,000):
3.0 GHz CPU - turbo boost up to 3.5 GHz
16GB of 1866MHz DDR3 RAM
dual 6GB FirePro D700 GPU
256GB Flash boot Drive

My computer - 2017 build ($1,950):
7820x - 8 core 3.6GHz CPU - 4.3 GHz turbo boost
8GB Sapphire Radeon RX 580 Nitro+
32GB of 2400MHz DDR4 ram
250GB SSD boot drive - still have 2 NVMe slots and 2 (2.5") SSD spots available

And before anyone explains to me my build isn't a Xeon build, I get that. I don't need a Xeon workstation, and Apple doesn't offer a non-Xeon 8-core machine. And I also understand my computer can do the exact same work as either the iMac Pro and the Mac Pro... so to that end, they're entirely comparable for me and my needs...

You just made Apple’s point for them... don’t buy a computer on specs buy it on job done and the point is technology just hasn’t changed that much and the job keeps getting done... but why you compare Apple and oranges I don’t know

 

[Drunken Master 911]

 

[torana355]

I don't think Apple is ever committed to any single product. That's what makes them uniquely Apple - their ability to first start with the user experience and then work backwards from there to see how best to deliver that experience.

So where you think - just update the Mac mini and Mac Pro already and call it a day, Apple is thinking - let's see what people use these products for and how we can better deliver that experience. A lunchbox doesn't have to be a box (it just needs to fulfil that role of letting you carry your food around), just as a "Mac Pro" doesn't have to be a headless Mac tower just to let you do the sort of professional work that you do. Hence the iMac Pro.

So yes, I suppose a case could be made that Apple isn't particularly enthusiastic about the Mac Pro, but I do believe they are still passionate about the Mac ecosystem overall (relative to its importance in the overall Apple ecosystem at any rate). It's just that the manner in which they go about updating their Macs is at odds with the Mac users, and I don't think there is any good way of resolving this friction.

If anything, I fully expect Mac updates to get even more sporadic as time goes on, for all the reasons I have stated above, and the animosity with pro Mac users to grow even more, not less. The Mac is no longer the centre of the Apple ecosystem. iOS is. That rubicon has been crossed, and there's no going back.

You pretty much have summed it up perfectly. Apple is now moving towards being a mobile company, with its main focus on iOS devices, they are no longer the Computer company they once were. The iMac Pro is not going to be sufficient or offer enough bang for your buck for many professionals so I see many of them moving over to Windows in the coming years. The computers Apple do make are very much a niche products now, guess we best accept it and move on.

 

[groovyd]

Apparently he didn't get the memo that the iPad is the only computer you really need

 

[fairuz]

You just made Apple’s point for them... don’t buy a computer on specs buy it on job done and the point is technology just hasn’t changed that much and the job keeps getting done... but why you compare Apple and oranges I don’t know

Maybe he does need the power of his i7 but not the Xeon-specific features. Except idk when that would be the case. To need an i7-X means you're probably doing some kind of pro work that you'd want the Xeon stability (and ECC RAM) for.

 

[usarioclave]

You just made Apple’s point for them... don’t buy a computer on specs buy it on job done and the point is technology just hasn’t changed that much and the job keeps getting done... but why you compare Apple and oranges I don’t know

The problem is that Apple is selling old technology for new prices. It'd be OK if the price dropped $200-300 every year that it wasn't updated...but it doesn't.

 

[curtvaughan]

I buckled and got a new iMac this year. I was holding out for a new look but could hold out no longer. The new Mac's fine, I was blown away by the screen upgrade and love the keyboard. Performance is good but not wow, and there's nothing on the new Mac I didn't have on the 6-year old one. Absolutely nothing in terms of functionality. And it took me days to reinstall everything until I finally gave up and used the automatic transfer. Which was annoying because now I have every corrupt file I had on the old machine on the new machine. I also make my living on my Mac and there's no way in hell I'm going to Windows, so I guess they've got me. Slightly sad I couldn't get a really new model, but there you are. At this stage I've come to expect whether it's cars (Tesla excepted) TVs fridges or computers they're not going to reinvent the wheel. Just fewer crashes, better screen, slightly faster. Yours resigned.

Yeah, as I've mentioned in my earlier posts, I too bought an iMac in January. It's nice enough, and I paid nearly $3000 for a 2 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, I5 processor. I could have gotten a PC with the same hardware spec's for around $1500 and installed Linux. The problem with that is that my wife loves the convenience of the Mac - she's familiar with OSX/MacOS. This will likely be my last Mac purchase. I think Apple is getting out of the desktop/laptop business, and I don't want to invest anymore into a sinking ship. I suspect that my new thin iMac will work fine for 2 or 3 years, then develop cooling problems and fan noise (like my 2014 model). At that point, it's time to leave Apple for me. Sad, but time moves on ...

 

[Sam_S]

For me, I know if Apple doesn’t update the Mac lineup this year I’m going back to windows for my next computer purchase. As much as I’ve wanted to stick with a Mac, the lack of updates is something I can no longer deal with.

I agree 100%

My current rMBP came with 256GB SSD and 8GB of RAM for $2700 NZD 5 years ago! Now for the tbMBP they want $3000 for the same storage and RAM, bit of a joke if you ask me.

 

[Scary Spice]

The reason why I haven't refreshed my work Macbook Pro is because I can't buy a Macbook Pro with more RAM than I already have. I'm two years past due for a refresh. Yes, I'm holding onto the machine longer - but in the absence of a meaningful increase in capability why wouldn't I?

Me too. I buy the newest generation of MacBook Pro and Mac Pro (now iMac Pro)... I have nothing to purchase.

My laptops have been pegged at 16 GB of ram for years.

 

[citysnaps]

Mr. Carnicelli couldn't be more right. Macintosh has been suffering from neglect for years and Cook & Crew would rather squander time and money on a self-driving car than on the bread-and-butter products that put Apple on the map in the first place. Or place priority on Mr. Cook's personal agenda. Tragic.

Then we get a MacBook Pro with this Touch Bar thing at the highest price point in 8 years. Throw in a crappy keyboard and there's little doubt as to why long-time (and long-suffering) Mac fans are pissed.

As one of your astute Forum posters stated a few years ago on another topic, "Time for Timmy to hit the road."

"Then we get a MacBook Pro with this Touch Bar thing at the highest price point in 8 years. Throw in a crappy keyboard and there's little doubt as to why long-time (and long-suffering) Mac fans are pissed."

Pissed? Not me, and I'm a "long time Mac fan" who hasn't suffered in the slightest.

I'm stoked with my MBP. Four flexible Thunderbolt 3 ports, each supporting 40 Gb/sec I/O, with any of the four capable of charging the laptop. Add a gorgeous display supporting the DCI-P3 color gamut (important if you care about color), an outstanding keyboard that let's me type faster with more accuracy, a superb oversized trackpad that can be clicked anywhere over its surface (unlike a mechanical trackpad), and TouchId for waking from sleep. All in a compact lightweight package that's a joy to use traveling.

I'm also super pleased and could go on about my 5K 27" iMac.


"Or place priority on Mr. Cook's personal agenda"

What personal agenda are you speaking of? Please be specific.


"As one of your astute Forum posters stated a few years ago on another topic, "Time for Timmy to hit the road.""

No. Mr. Cook (calling him Timmy in an attempt to personally denigrate him is rather juvenile) is doing an outstanding job. Losing him would not be good for the company.

 

[G5isAlive]

The problem is that Apple is selling old technology for new prices. It'd be OK if the price dropped $200-300 every year that it wasn't updated...but it doesn't.

I agree and I wasn’t apologizing for Apple .. just replying to a particular post

 

[fairuz]

This...

We're well past the point of "Don't Buy" for the 2013 Mac Pro. ...even with the price drop, the 8-core machine is still over-priced by $2,000 compared to a new 8-core workstation...

On top of that, it's listed $1,000 less than the base configuration of the iMac Pro...

2017 iMac Pro specs ($5,000 USD):
8GB Vega 56 video card
3.2 GHz CPU - with turbo boost up to 4.2GHz
32GB of 2666MHz DDR4 RAM
1TB Flash boot drive
5K Display

2013 iMac Pro's specs ($4,000):
3.0 GHz CPU - turbo boost up to 3.5 GHz
16GB of 1866MHz DDR3 RAM
dual 6GB FirePro D700 GPU
256GB Flash boot Drive

My computer - 2017 build ($1,950):
7820x - 8 core 3.6GHz CPU - 4.3 GHz turbo boost
8GB Sapphire Radeon RX 580 Nitro+
32GB of 2400MHz DDR4 ram
250GB SSD boot drive - still have 2 NVMe slots and 2 (2.5") SSD spots available

And before anyone explains to me my build isn't a Xeon build, I get that. I don't need a Xeon workstation, and Apple doesn't offer a non-Xeon 8-core machine. And I also understand my computer can do the exact same work as either the iMac Pro and the Mac Pro... so to that end, they're entirely comparable for me and my needs...

I agree that the Mac Pro is severely out of date (the iMac isn't, but it's stupid for other reasons), but what you have is exactly the slot Apple has always lacked, a high-end consumer desktop. Apple's pro line is for pros who need certain features like the Xeon you say you don't need, so I don't see why you're comparing it to your build. When Apple releases new pro machines, they're always underpriced actually.

RX580 vs D700 or Vega: These pro GPUs are necessary or at least better for certain things, and that's why they cost a ton more than gaming GPUs like the RX580 (btw I have the exact same card).

i7-X vs Xeon: Xeon is downclocked for stability and supports ECC and certain other special features. Just curious, what do you need the speed of an i7-X for that you don't need Xeon features for? I get that the dual CPU support is a waste in Apple's new single-CPU setups, but stability matters, and you never know when memory is corrupted. I've got the opposite setup, an old Mac Pro I paid $100 for, another $100 to upgrade to dual x5670 (12-core), and now I have something that exceeds my needs, never fails, and runs macOS without hacks.

 

[Marble]

I don't think Apple is ever committed to any single product. That's what makes them uniquely Apple - their ability to first start with the user experience and then work backwards from there to see how best to deliver that experience.

So where you think - just update the Mac mini and Mac Pro already and call it a day, Apple is thinking - let's see what people use these products for and how we can better deliver that experience.

Interesting perspective! This view of Apple's process makes a lot of sense.

Still, the professional content creator's user experience is one that they don't seem to have considered in this vein, recently. As a developer of graphics-rich 2D and 3D applications, Mac hardware capabilities leave few good options to "get the job done," and the job definition of frustrated professionals using Apple's hardware seems to be getting wider.

Perhaps the company is losing interest in providing a good user experience to these people. That'd be fair, except these people were the company's primary demo a decade ago. The pain of being "abandoned" is poignant because many professionals felt like Apple were their champion at one point.

The recent commercials provide really mixed messages.

 

[Abazigal]

You pretty much have summed it up perfectly. Apple is now moving towards being a mobile company, with its main focus on iOS devices, they are no longer the Computer company they once were. The iMac Pro is not going to be sufficient or offer enough bang for your buck for many professionals so I see many of them moving over to Windows in the coming years. The computers Apple do make are very much a niche products now, guess we best accept it and move on.

Apple was never a computer company, and if we want to be pedantic about it, the iPhone and Apple Watch too are computers we carry in our pockets and wear on our wrists respectively.

Apple is a design company who is focused on making technology more personal for its users. In this regard, there is so much more that can bdone with wearables than with PCs, and of course Apple would want to focus on the former more.

The way I see it, Apple has 3 “real” Macs in their lineup. The 13” and 15” MBP, and the 5k iMac and iMac Pro. You can further turn the MBP into a desktop with the 5k monitor and E-GPUs. If they don’t suffice for you, then it’s probably time to start shopping elsewhere.

While Apple has promised a new Mac Pro for 2019, knowing the way Apple works vs what the people here want, you will be disappointed.

 

[timborama]

Cook seems to forget that most iPhone users are also Mac users. Without the Mac there’s less incentive to buy an iPhone.

That is nowhere close to being true. Most Mac users have iPhones, but NOT the reverse.

 

[Abazigal]

Interesting perspective! This view of Apple's process makes a lot of sense.

Still, the professional content creator's user experience is one that they don't seem to have considered in this vein, recently. As a developer of graphics-rich 2D and 3D applications, Mac hardware capabilities leave few good options to "get the job done," and the job definition of frustrated professionals using Apple's hardware seems to be getting wider.

Perhaps the company is losing interest in providing a good user experience to these people. That'd be fair, except these people were the company's primary demo a decade ago. The pain of being "abandoned" is poignant because many professionals felt like Apple were their champion at one point.

The recent commercials provide really mixed messages.

Just to clarify, what sort of workflows are we looking at that still can’t be addressed by the iMac Pro (especially a souped-up one)?

Or are people just not willing to pay the Apple tax on spec upgrades and want a tower form factor just so they can access the internals themselves and save some cash down the road?

I can understand that mentality, but this seems to be a very different argument from claiming that Apple doesn’t offer a Mac Pro equivalent (it technically does, at least from a horsepower perspective).

 

[torana355]

Apple was never a computer company, and if we want to be pedantic about it, the iPhone and Apple Watch too are computers we carry in our pockets and wear on our wrists respectively.

Apple is a design company who is focused on making technology more personal for its users. In this regard, there is so much more that can bdone with wearables than with PCs, and of course Apple would want to focus on the former more.

The way I see it, Apple has 3 “real” Macs in their lineup. The 13” and 15” MBP, and the 5k iMac and iMac Pro. You can further turn the MBP into a desktop with the 5k monitor and E-GPUs. If they don’t suffice for you, then it’s probably time to start shopping elsewhere.

While Apple has promised a new Mac Pro for 2019, knowing the way Apple works vs what the people here want, you will be disappointed.

Apple was once very much a Computer company. It is where it all started for them. The iPod is where things started to change from a computer company to a technology company imo. Anyway its clear Apple has changed directions and is no longer focusing on Desktop Computers no matter which way you try to spin it. Personally ill be happy if they can fix the MBP line, I want a reliable keyboard and some actual ports thank you Apple

 

[647156]

Many, if you can't use THAT old chasis without redesigning cooling system because you have designed it for less heat than the new generation generates.

Well the Mac Pro tower was originally designed as basically a giant heatsink for the pair of PowerPC G5 processors that the design originally contained; they could probably put at least 4 current-generation Xeons in that case (which still looks awesome 15 years later) and hopefully still not have to resort to the leaky liquid cooling that the later/faster dual G5 systems required!