Popular Mac Developer Slams Apple for 'Sad State of Macintosh Hardware'

[DesertNomad]

No profit enough for me on develop ios , i think most of ios developer on loss situation .

We tried iOS for a while, but the return on investment and profit were dismal. Our macOS apps paid for our home, our small airplane, some rental properties, and nearly 30 years of good living. Our iOS apps paid for a couple tacos.

Perhaps it is because I am just too old school. In the early days of our company I printed disk labels on my Apple Personal LaserWriter NT, stuck them on a 3.5" floppy and mailed them to our customers all over the world. We exhibited at MacWorld Expo and built real relationships with our customers. That just doesn't happen in iOS. The store is a mess and with a zillion apps, nobody can find you. If your app costs more than 99 cents, people feel like you are ripping them off... and there is no way to even know your customers. There is no upgrade path and most iOS apps are junk and full of ads. No thanks.

 

[jchap]

Apple don't give Macs that long in terms of MacOS support and if you were in the market for a Mac mini, a near 4 year old model isn't that appealing giving that its probably only got 3 or so years left of MacOS support.

Yeah, that’s a very good point. Apple has a seven-year obsolescence cycle on their Mac hardware, I believe, so if you were to buy a 2014 Mac mini brand-new out of the box in the year 2018, Apple would only support any hardware issues like board replacement, parts and so on for three more years.

 

[elkhound]

I would. In a heartbeat. I would buy cheap plastic crap with the mac OS if they gave me the ability to use a decent GPU and get a decent VR experience.

And that is the problem. I've been reading this never-ending thread for a while and from what I have seen and experienced I can tell you one thing.

Apple has done EXACTLY the right thing to keep their business profitable and "elite".They are right.
MOST people DO NOT care, know, understand or even WANT to understand how the sausage is made.

They want to buy their great-looking products, have them work flawlessly for what THEY want them to do,
while also being able to show off their "bling-ness" and hipster chic. As a content consuming culture Apple has, and STILL makes the perfect computer and computer platform for CONSUMERS. (Unless you are a gamer)

BUT. Apple ALSO built and made their brand by being the "go-to" for professionals and content creators as well. It used to be you PAID a premium, but you GOT premium in return.

Apple, like our culture in general, is REALLY hung up on looks these days, and regardless of what others have argued they have proven time and again that now, as a company, they WILL sacrifice function over form.

That is all well and good, and it still leaves an awful lot of people happy.
But NOT the Apple enthusiasts, Creative Professionals, and envelope pushers.
And even that is okay.
But they HAVE to let us know.

What I wish would happen? Give me a box.
A big old freaking UGLY box. A box SO UGLY it would NOT cannibalize any sales.
Hell. Make it out of cheap plastic.
Hell. Make it out of recycled bedpans and ADVERTISE the fact to keep the fashionista's FAR away from it.
Paint it Neon Purple and Puke green, and have the start up chime be a bleating goat.
Make it Fat, Heavy, and boxy. Use industrial orange cable for the power cord with a big black three prong on the end of it.

BUT Give me some PCIE slots, 1151 and AMD sockets, some octane, multiple SSD and NVM slots.
Give me monitor choice. 60hz? 144hz? G-Sync? Free-sync? Kitchen sink?
Hell. Just give me some RAM slots.
You know. Desktop Ram. Old school.
I promise i will buy it.
I will buy it at the Apple markup.
Hell. I'll even by the RAM from you, at Apple prices if you do this for me.

I don't care what it looks like.
I just care what it does.
I have a Vive. A Vive Pro. A Rift. A Samsung Odyssey. (Along with a PSVR Pro and Oculus Go, but they are not part of the conversation)
I have proven myself to be a fool who does not MIND being parted with his money.
I want to run decent VR with my Mac OS.
I don't want this buggy Hackintosh that refuses to upgrade to High Sierra so I can at least TRY to run
steam VR with my 1080ti.

Apple please. I understand how addictive running with the cool kids is.
But throw this nerd, and nerds like me a bone every now and then.

Or, if you are out of the game, have the decency to let me know.
I've ended relationships before. Keeping me hanging on like this is just cruel.
I don't MIND you seeing other people. It's a good thing. A healthy thing.
But if you are not going to dance with the one who brought you, at least let me know.

Rant over.
Sorry.

 

[Hemingray]

It's sad but for the first time in 30 years of using a Mac I'm considering buying a Windows laptop to replace my wife's aging 2011 MBP. I can get twice the laptop with actual usable ports for half the price. What's wrong with this picture? Come on Apple... I'm a die hard user but I'm starting to wonder why I'm still sticking around.

 

[torana355]

It's sad but for the first time in 30 years of using a Mac I'm considering buying a Windows laptop to replace my wife's aging 2011 MBP. I can get twice the laptop with actual usable ports for half the price. What's wrong with this picture? Come on Apple... I'm a die hard user but I'm starting to wonder why I'm still sticking around.

Can you point out where you can get a laptop at half the price of the MBP with anywhere near the same quality? Because believe me I've been looking and I've found prices to be on par for the most part. Its only the high end spec machines where something like a Dell is cheaper.

 

[jchap]

Apple please. I understand how addictive running with the cool kids is.
But throw this nerd, and nerds like me a bone every now and then.

Or, if you are out of the game, have the decency to let me know.
I've ended relationships before. Keeping me hanging on like this is just cruel.
I don't MIND you seeing other people. It's a good thing. A healthy thing.
But if you are not going to dance with the one who brought you, at least let me know.

Cute, but true in its own way. I get it.

That said, we don’t owe any manufacturer anything, really. We are consumers. We can make the choice to abandon a manufacturer and purchase the things that best suit our needs. If Apple isn’t working any more for the kind of people that used to feed them, then we can find alternatives and support the manufacturer that creates products best in line with our needs.

 

[elkhound]

I'm with you on this.. but I'll just make it shorter. I want a desktop CPU that doesn't throttle down every time you throw some work at it, and they could put that in a big ugly box and sell it to me for $1000+. Then I'd add an $850 NEC monitor I've had my eye on, and have enough money left to keep buying their phones.

 

[Marble]

Just to clarify, what sort of workflows are we looking at that still can’t be addressed by the iMac Pro (especially a souped-up one)?

The iMac Pro is very powerful and makes a great workstation (for video editors especially). Even if I could afford to buy one for 3D and game development, though, it doesn't represent great value to me. Don't get me wrong – once all the parts are tallied, it's not an especially expensive machine. But... I don't need that CPU, that level of I/O, or that resolution of display, but I do need at least that amount of graphics power. That's why it wouldn't be good value for me to buy it all together. And in two years when I will want more graphics power but won't need more of the rest, I'd have to buy the lot again, because Thunderbolt 3 isn't fast enough to add the appropriate GPU externally?

The iMac Pro just doesn't add up for me. Perhaps it's myopic to believe that I'm representative of many other creative pros, though!

 

[alien3dx]

Can you point out where you can get a laptop at half the price of the MBP with anywhere near the same quality? Because believe me I've been looking and I've found prices to be on par for the most part. Its only the high end spec machines where something like a Dell is cheaper.

If you want quality get lenovo thinkpad series, upgrade ram to 16 GB and SSD. It should way par enough to any macbook laptop.If you're crazy about retina display, i'm not sure what apple gimmick was, but i still use 2017 imac 21". Don't buy dell, easy to call and replace but most of use want long term stability even without calling them.

 

[elkhound]

Can you point out where you can get a laptop at half the price of the MBP with anywhere near the same quality? Because believe me I've been looking and I've found prices to be on par for the most part. Its only the high end spec machines where something like a Dell is cheaper.

I jumped ship a couple of years ago on laptops. Look at the HP Spectre 360. They're nice, and once you've used a touch screen on a laptop you won't want to go back to a Mac. You don't use it often, but it's nice to have when you need it.

 

[macjunk(ie)]

......
Or, if you are out of the game, have the decency to let me know.
I've ended relationships before. Keeping me hanging on like this is just cruel.
I don't MIND you seeing other people. It's a good thing. A healthy thing.
But if you are not going to dance with the one who brought you, at least let me know.

Rant over.
Sorry.

Mate...I sent Apple a similar letter and they replied "Can you not take a clue? Must I spell out everything?"

The issue is the Windows 10 laptops are not perfect either. The Dell XPS, HP Spectre and Microsoft Surface Book all have their own set of issues. Also the UHD screen on the Dell XPS 13" costs more then the MBP with Retina screen. 2500 aud vs 2200 aud so its not like the Dell is any cheaper either. On top of that I have to put up with Windows and lose Apples fantastic customer service all for a better CPU and GPU which I don't really need. If Apple can fix the keyboard on the MBP I think it will be perfect fit for me.

But no one should ever buy Dell at MSRP. There are always deals floating around. Also, that price variation is an artifact of Aussie specific pricing.

 

[ocnitsa]

Can you point out where you can get a laptop at half the price of the MBP with anywhere near the same quality? Because believe me I've been looking and I've found prices to be on par for the most part. Its only the high end spec machines where something like a Dell is cheaper.

I think he was being a bit hyperbolic...but yes with the higher end dells you can get twice the machine for a comparable price (meaning better cpu, better graphics, 32gb ram, 1tb ssd, keyboard that works, etc.). Apple has a reputation for good build quality, but that’s increasingly easier to argue against, given the keyboard and other issues where it seems like the failure of one component necessitates some kind of substantial repair that includes other components...it’s not like Dell’s don’t have their own issues...for example, throttling in the XPS line...but any user knowledgeable enough to want that high end configurations is probably capable of fixing the issue by re-pasting and applying thermal pads.

 

[alien3dx]

We tried iOS for a while, but the return on investment and profit were dismal. Our macOS apps paid for our home, our small airplane, some rental properties, and nearly 30 years of good living. Our iOS apps paid for a couple tacos.

Perhaps it is because I am just too old school. In the early days of our company I printed disk labels on my Apple Personal LaserWriter NT, stuck them on a 3.5" floppy and mailed them to our customers all over the world. We exhibited at MacWorld Expo and built real relationships with our customers. That just doesn't happen in iOS. The store is a mess and with a zillion apps, nobody can find you. If your app costs more than 99 cents, people feel like you are ripping them off... and there is no way to even know your customers. There is no upgrade path and most iOS apps are junk and full of ads. No thanks.

I maybe not "old school" like you,maybe half "old school".But the trend of 99 cents(volume sales) compare to old 99 dollar or more mean 99 cent with 0 support and for sure next year the product cannot be use because the developer don't buy the 99 dollar to update the latest patch of the program/application.

A few taco = 99 dollar..

Just charge 5 dollar per submission complete is enough, but paying 99 dollar for something yet not publish is outrages.

 

[torana355]

If you want quality get lenovo thinkpad series, upgrade ram to 16 GB and SSD. It should way par enough to any macbook laptop.If you're crazy about retina display, i'm not sure what apple gimmick was, but i still use 2017 imac 21". Don't buy dell, easy to call and replace but most of use want long term stability even without calling them.

I was looking at the Lenovo carbon X1, and once again the price for the model with same screen resolution as the MBP is more expensive at 2700 aud.

 

[robertcoogan]

This is now running close to a thousand comments, pay attention, Apple.

 

[oyabroch!]

Let's clear this up, and rationalise it: Apple do not "need" to do ANYTHING. Whatever opinions anyone outside Apple hold, are valid and meaningful to the people holding them, BUT... Apple have their OWN INTERNAL road map, work schedules, design and prototyping/development/design/testing/proving processed, vision of products they have planned for release many many years down the road... to which ONLY THEY are privy.

Imagine a gallery full of unseen paintings - you're looking through the keyhole of the LOCKED front door, and you're able to JUST ABOUT make out a vague outline of a row of squares, which you're able to surmise are hung art on a wall... that's what NON-APPLE know about INSIDE Apple, PERIOD.

Apple ARE NOT ON the timeline or timescale of the outside world. People can either accept that or reject it, and either way Apple have, do and WILL sell boatloads of their products, DESPITE the bemoaning and whinging public. Apple have NO "obligation" to anyone - it's THEIR art, and they paint it in THEIR OWN TIME. It's high time people learnt to grow up and accept that, and deal with it.

If you want ******, less-than-mediocre, unsupported CRAP, then look around at other options - you have the rest of the industry to fulfill your non-Apple needs, and all the best with it.

We hear this BS a billion times over, and we have for years. Whine whinge moan. Who cares - Apple? Nope. You love them, you know you do. Quit griping and develop a contingency plan, in future, if you're wise.

 

[Altis]

Can you point out where you can get a laptop at half the price of the MBP with anywhere near the same quality? Because believe me I've been looking and I've found prices to be on par for the most part. Its only the high end spec machines where something like a Dell is cheaper.

I wouldn't say it's quite at the same quality, but the Lenovo Yoga 720 is about 2/3 the price for both the 13" and 15" and comes pretty close in terms of specs, anyway.

Was thinking of getting the 15" but ended up buying a 1-month-old ThinkPad for $290 (all-in)... 1080p IPS, SSD, 8 GB DDR4, ports galore, top-notch keyboard, and a battery that easily gets me 16 hours. Couldn't pass it up, and for what I use a laptop for, it's excellent.

 

[greenmeanie]

Try ubuntu mate with Curpertino theme.

Couldn't agree me.

Also frustrating is the pricing for the current lineup.

Not to start a war, but I actually just built a custom Linux machine because I needed to upgrade after holding out for years and couldn't justify the prices for the hardware Apple delivers. Debian isn't as pretty as macOS, but it's just as functional and works for my uses.

 

[cajun67]

Just what the site needs. More complaining about the Mac. Sigh.

Squeaky wheel gets the grease.

 

[kickapoobd]

Hardware is not a social issue. No need to update.

 

[oyabroch!]

Squeaky wheel gets the grease.

Take the gripes TO APPLE - talking elsewhere is just satisfying an urge to complain, and yet - ironically - IN THE WRONG PLACE.

 

[cajun67]

Define a majority of Mac Users. Would you classify the majority as power or as everyday users. The latter comes to mind, including education. The current line up more then meets their needs under the hood. The Mac OS software seperates the Mac from others like Windows OS. The need to refresh the hardware, not a differenator as it would be with different Windows systems. My 3 plus year old Mac Book doing just great, more speed then I need. Not everyone needs a heavy lifting system.

Gamers need heavy lifting.

 

[Misuteri]

Let’s face it, desktop Apple PC’s are not sexy. Neither are iPads, Apple TV or the Apple Watch.

They haven’t made the cover of magazines in 20+ years. The new ones don’t make the news. People don’t line up to buy them 6 days in advance. There are no celebrities that show up for launch events for an iMac, Mac Mini or Mac Pro.

Those things are what Apple cares about and only one product/product line is giving them that kind of curbside appeal. The iPhone.

No company that was serious about a core component of their business would not refresh that part of their line for 3 years at a time. Hell Oreos can’t go 3 months without a new flavors and Boeing upgrades their products more than Apple PC’s.

 

[Greymacuser]

It's sad but for the first time in 30 years of using a Mac I'm considering buying a Windows laptop to replace my wife's aging 2011 MBP. I can get twice the laptop with actual usable ports for half the price. What's wrong with this picture? Come on Apple... I'm a die hard user but I'm starting to wonder why I'm still sticking around.

Same here. My old MBP is in need of an update and Apple offers nothing. I'd even be willing to take a Hackintosh if it meant I could still use the better OS at a fraction of the price. Even with all the tech hang ups that would invite.

 

[dumastudetto]

I jumped ship a couple of years ago on laptops. Look at the HP Spectre 360. They're nice, and once you've used a touch screen on a laptop you won't want to go back to a Mac. You don't use it often, but it's nice to have when you need it.

Laptop touch screens are grotesque. I'm proud that Apple refuses to go down that useless gimmicky road.