Popular Mac Developer Slams Apple for 'Sad State of Macintosh Hardware'

[artfossil]

In the real world "the cloud" and "network" are slow as hell and cost more than a cheap USB flash drive.

Oh please God and gods, no to the days of flash drives. I live and work in the so-called real world and am much more productive with cloud services than I ever was in those days of physical syncs and transfers. Put me happily in the wireless category.

 

[Feenician]

What are you talking about?

Marketshare matters more to a technologist than it does to an Accountant.

A profit-obsessed bean counter can get his margins off a small marketshare and laugh all the way to the bank. (Witness Mr. Cook.)

A technologist wants EVERYONE to be changed by his or her vision for the future.

For that person, being trapped on the sidelines of the market means that they never get a chance to change the world.

Steve wanted to change the world, Tim just wants to profit from it.

Ah yes, Steve, with his cost competitive, high powered multi-graphics card Macs that he cared so deeply about so that he could chase market share. That was always what Steve's Apple was known for /s

You're dealing in alternative facts at this point and I really can't be bothered to continue this.

 

[npmacuser5]

The new ones might have faster processors, but they are way less capable out of the box. After the initial investment, you need to spend more money on cables, external devices and adapters to match the standard capabilities of the previous generation of laptops.

In the real world "the cloud" and "network" are slow as hell and cost more than a cheap USB flash drive.

Agree to a point. Floppy disk was cheap also. My real world, wireless home network, ISP, iCloud, fast as hell.

 

[Abazigal]

I care about the technology, not the profits. Accountants care about profits. Administrators care about profits. Tim Cook is an administrator and a very good one.

Visionaries, on the other hand, care about changing the world.

As I have said, I liked the visionary Apple -- not the accountant Apple.

PS I also believe that companies that get big because a visionary is running them, but then pivot to doing safe and high-margin things, eventually fade into irrelevance.

Sony is a great company to own shares in but not a company that's going to change the world again.

When they did the Walkman they literally altered the course of history and changed society forever.

Now they make nice TV's that you can get at Best Buy.

But Apple has always catered to the niche market. It just so happened that this niche user base was willing to pay a premium for what Apple offered, but bottom line is - Apple didn’t get to where it was today by chasing market share.

And it is silly to think that Steve Jobs didn’t care about profits. Yes, the iPhone and iPad were revolutionary products, but they also got out the door because Steve knew they would sell.

So in short, good products are a means to an end for these companies. That end being better profits.

Because whether you like it or not, profits are what pay the bills and keep the lights on and last I checked, companies like Tesla are in trouble because they have problems making enough of their “revolutionary” products to sell.

 

[EDS66]

Man, this topic appears to have lanced the bubo of frustration suppurating in the collective armpit of Apple enthusiasts. Eighty three pages and going strong! Apple'd better take note of this.

 

[Count Blah]

Well, people certainly feel Apple is crazy to me neglecting the Mac the way they are. So in a sense, they are thinking differently and continuing to innovate. Just not in a way the Mac enthusiasts appreciate, because they so happen to be on the losing end here.

Removed an ugly response, made out of anger over someone cheering for other's discontent.

But that is somehow permissible here

Isn't trolling not allowed?

 

[EDS66]

This thread won't help Apple. Apple can't see they've run the Mac line into the ground with stupid "thinovations" and touchbars and general mismanagement because profits hide mistakes. It takes a while for feedback from bad decisions to hit as long as the bottom line is still doing well.

This thread is cathartic admission from Mac users that things aren't all well and good in Mac-land, and perhaps alternatives are worth considering.

Don't give loyalty to Apple or any other corporation.

The thread is designed to help us, Apple customers, not Apple. Apple will cross the Rubicon of being the first company with a trillion dollar cap soon. They don't need our help, per se. We are the ones with needs.

We need Apple to manufacture products that we want! And by "we" I don't mean lolly pop sucking throngs of commodity fetishists hypnotized by Apple's Willie Wonka store tactics. By "we" I mean people who, at a minimum, know the difference between physical and logical cores. The sheer number of posts generated in such a short time just might catch Apple's eye and jolt its otiose Brobdingnagian corpus into a semblance of action.

 

[ocnitsa]

Removed an ugly response, made out of anger over someone cheering for other's discontent.

But that is somehow permissible here

Isn't trolling not allowed?

I think Abazigal is just trying to joke in a good natured way...might not come off that way to folks like us who are discontent.

 

[EDS66]

I think Abazigal is just trying to joke in a good natured way...might not come off that way to folks like us who are discontent.

I really don't understand why people here have these compulsions to argue with others! What gives! The spirit of the thread is obvious, clear, and accessible. WE WANT APPLE AESTHETIC AND PARITY WITH PC COMPETITION! What's so hard to understand here? We desire it. And the two are not mutually exclusive. Apple with its stubbornness is clearly the ONLY obstacle here!

 

[Spizike9]

What people don't understand is that Mac computers are so mature, after decades of improvement, that actually they do not require regular updates anymore. I'm posting this on a three year old MacBook Air that is still incredibly fast. Buy a worthless HP or Lenovo laptops and we'll talk as well in three years...

I would say iPhones need updating less than Macs for probably 95-99% of users.

 

[Count Blah]

I think Abazigal is just trying to joke in a good natured way...might not come off that way to folks like us who are discontent.

Given the history, it is not 100% innocent

 

[richinaus]

But Apple has always catered to the niche market. It just so happened that this niche user base was willing to pay a premium for what Apple offered, but bottom line is - Apple didn’t get to where it was today by chasing market share.

And it is silly to think that Steve Jobs didn’t care about profits. Yes, the iPhone and iPad were revolutionary products, but they also got out the door because Steve knew they would sell.

So in short, good products are a means to an end for these companies. That end being better profits.

Because whether you like it or not, profits are what pay the bills and keep the lights on and last I checked, companies like Tesla are in trouble because they have problems making enough of their “revolutionary” products to sell.

I have no idea why a lot of people don't seem to understand this.
[doublepost=1529636539][/doublepost]

I really don't understand why people here have these compulsions to argue with others! What gives! The spirit of the thread is obvious, clear, and accessible. WE WANT APPLE AESTHETIC AND PARITY WITH PC COMPETITION! What's so hard to understand here? We desire it. And the two are not mutually exclusive. Apple with its stubbornness is clearly the ONLY obstacle here!

It isn't arguing, but trying to give a different point of view. I would love Apple aesthetic and parity with PC's in terms of power and specifications, but wanting and being realistic are two different things.

You want a consumer company to compete with companies that wholly rely on income from computers. Apple rely on 5% of theirs, which means they are not high priority unfortunately.

I would aboslutely love to eat my words and be totally wrong on all this, but as far as I can see, Apple do not need to care anymore about the computers. If they did we would have more options, and upto date specifications across the board.

 

[Abazigal]

Given the history, it is not 100% innocent

I guess I deserved that.

But I meant no offence with the comment above. My point is as it has always been - Apple has new priorities on its plate, and this in turn means they will consequently devote less time and resources to the Mac, and that’s likely going to be the new normal.

Griping and whining may be a good way of letting off some steam, but it is unlikely to change anything. I feel it’s just something we all have to accept.

Apple is clearly innovating in areas such as health and AR, and it’s myopic to argue that they are stagnating just because a single product line has been neglected while ignoring everything else that Apple is doing well.

I get it. The people here care about new Macs and not Apple watches or Animoji. Doesn’t mean Apple isn’t innovative. They simply have chosen to focus on areas you aren’t passionate about.

And that’s just the way it is.

 

[EDS66]

I think Abazigal is just trying to joke in a good natured way...might not come off that way to folks like us who are discontent.

I sometimes think that some come here to practice their rhetorical skills. They take a stance, and t intentionally ignore the real fervor fueling user responses. And they kick back and chuckle at he out-pour of emotion. S

I have no idea why a lot of people don't seem to understand this.
[doublepost=1529636539][/doublepost]

It isn't arguing, but trying to give a different point of view. I would love Apple aesthetic and parity with PC's in terms of power and specifications, but wanting and being realistic are two different things.

You want a consumer company to compete with companies that wholly rely on income from computers. Apple rely on 5% of theirs, which means they are not high priority.

No doubt, Apple has redefined themselves this past decade. But I don't believe that they do not respect or appreciate the role of Personal Computer. They are just inflexible. Because they are so freaking big. They are byzantine! That's the problem.

They can easily bring 8th generation i7/i9 to the portable line. But this might make the machine thicker (or louder), and Apple can't live with that. Their obsession with thinness is, frankly, frightening. Just like CPU developers have accepted that Moore's law is no longer the law of the land, so must Apple accept that the preternatural desire for all their equipment to become more gracile is no longer a viable strategy!

 

[richinaus]

I sometimes think that some come here to practice their rhetorical skills. They take a stance, and t intentionally ignore the real fervor fueling user responses. And they kick back and chuckle at he out-pour of emotion. S



No doubt, Apple has redefined themselves this past decade. But I don't believe that they do not respect or appreciate the role of Personal Computer. They are just inflexible. Because they are so freaking big. They are byzantine! That's the problem.

They can easily bring 8th generation i7/i9 to the portable line. But this might make the machine thicker (or louder), and Apple can't live with that. Their obsession with thinness is, frankly, frightening. Just like CPU developers have accepted that Moore's law is no longer the law of the land, so must Apple accept that the preternatural desire for all their equipment to become more gracile is no longer a viable strategy!

I tend to disagree. They make the laptops for a broad range of users and are reasonably powerful plus thin and light for portability. They could easily make a broader range of personal computers that can compete with Dell / HP etc but choose not to. This is clearly a business strategy and a decision was made. A company does not just ignore things and 'forget' but make a conscious decision on their direction and goals.

There will be some reason why they haven't upgraded but I don't think a delay of a couple of months is reason for concern [excpeting Mac Pro and Mac mini which are both obviously ignored]. If they are not released within the next 4 months I would get a bit worried then, but really it is clear they are simply not a high priority for the company.

 

[EDS66]

I tend to disagree. They make the laptops for a broad range of users and are reasonably powerful plus thin and light for portability. They could easily make a broader range of personal computers that can compete with Dell / HP etc but choose not to. This is clearly a business strategy and a decision was made. A company does not just ignore things and 'forget' but make a conscious decision on their direction and goals.

There will be some reason why they haven't upgraded but I don't think a delay of a couple of months is reason for concern [excpeting Mac Pro and Mac mini which are both obviously ignored]. If they are not released within the next 4 months I would get a bit worried then, but really it is clear they are simply not a high priority for the company.

[doublepost=1529638771][/doublepost]Well reasoned. But if revenues are paramount, then Apple is loosing a lot (A LOT!) of money. Dell, HP, Asus, MSI, Acer (especially Acer-- you can get an i9 laptop from Acer now with an IPS 1080P screen for under a grand!) cannot keep these computers in stock. Build times for Dell XPS 15 (2018) are over 2 weeks now. The demand is incredible.

Apple is loosing tens of millions of dollars to the competitors by not being ready to incorporate Intel's newest into their platform. This is what I mean by "inflexible" and "byzantine". There are just too many cogs in the engine. Things are not getting done fast enough. Engineers are probably waiting for the decision makers to review their schematics and proposals, and the management does not even know they are supposed to sign off on something.

 

[alien3dx]

[doublepost=1529638771][/doublepost]Well reasoned. But if revenues are paramount, then Apple is loosing a lot (A LOT!) of money. Dell, HP, Asus, MSI, Acer (especially Acer-- you can get an i9 laptop from Acer now with an IPS 1080P screen for under a grand!) cannot keep these computers in stock. Build times for Dell XPS 15 (2018) are over 2 weeks now. The demand is incredible.

Apple is loosing tens of millions of dollars to the competitors by not being ready to incorporate Intel's newest into their platform. This is what I mean by "inflexible" and "byzantine". There are just too many cogs in the engine. Things are not getting done fast enough. Engineers are probably waiting for the decision makers to review their schematics and proposals, and the management does not even know they are supposed to sign off on something.

That why in 2010 i buy ACER.. They offer the latest DDR3 and so as Apple, old times both of them are the latest and highest specification. But now , you can get same spec but double cheaper price IMAC 2017 based line. Yes, i'm pretty angry and sad but no choice because of work.. I can buy 2 laptop for an IMAC.

 

[Abazigal]

[doublepost=1529638771][/doublepost]
Apple is loosing tens of millions of dollars to the competitors by not being ready to incorporate Intel's newest into their platform. This is what I mean by "inflexible" and "byzantine". There are just too many cogs in the engine. Things are not getting done fast enough. Engineers are probably waiting for the decision makers to review their schematics and proposals, and the management does not even know they are supposed to sign off on something.

And maybe Apple has done the math and decided that whatever money they lose from not updating the Mac in a timely fashion is worth it so they can keep channeling all their resources and manpower on whatever new initiatives they are focusing on?

It’s an unpopular opinion, but what if Apple is making the wrong decision now (neglecting the Mac) so that they can make the right decision in the future (more people working on initiatives they believe will allow Apple to maintain their edge in the future?)

 

[EDS66]

That why in 2010 i buy ACER.. They offer the latest DDR3 and so as Apple, old times both of them are the latest and highest specification. But now , you can get same spec but double cheaper price IMAC 2017 based line. Yes, i'm pretty angry and sad but no choice because of work.. I can buy 2 laptop for an IMAC.

Not sure exactly what you mean. Acer right now offers a superlative alternative to Apple, assuming you are not doing color-accurate work.

I am pretty sure that Apple will release something tantalizing in the next couple of months. But I don't think they will accept loss of face by jettisoning the absolutely abominable keyboard, removing the vomitous touch bar and rejiggering the ports. The keyboard, by the way, is not horrible not because of its typing attributes, but because it's unforgiving of any extended environmental stress, such as accumulation of dirt and continuous internal heat.

They might shoe-horn the faster Intel processor (if they don't I am done with them for good.) They will update the keyboard to butterfly keyboard v.3, but they will not fundamentally change the design. They might put more weird symbols on the keys, why not add a hedera on one of the keys, huh? (LOL)

They will not modify the port configuration. They will not disinter the Mag Safe connector. They will do nothing other than, maybe, squeezing a faster processor into the chassis and, maybe, re-branding the GPU and shrinking bezels somewhat. I really hope I am wrong.

Frankly, if they are able to stick an i9 in it, I just might buy it. Despite my perfervid animus for Apple right now, I will still buy their stuff, as long as it's better than what was offered before.

EDIT: This is just late night scapulimancy induced by staring at to many progress bars. Don't judge me for being too optimistic.

 

[wallah]

If we go past august 15th without an iMac update it will simply indicate how little Apple cares about desktop. That is the 20th anniversary date of iMac

I think @Shivetya has made a very astute obsevation here about the 20th anniversary. Given what the iMac back then did for the company. Perhaps that explains the wait. We can only hope for a celebration.

It wouldn’t even be called an iPhone if it wasn’t for the iMac.

edit: It was Ives team designed the first iMac. Credit where it’s due.

 

[EDS66]

I think @Shivetya has made a very astute obsevation here about the 20th anniversary. Given what the iMac back then did for the company. Perhaps that explains the wait. We can only hope for a celebration.

It wouldn’t even be called an iPhone if it wasn’t for the iMac.

I am all for waiting for true celebration!

 

[alien3dx]

Not sure exactly what you mean. Acer right now offers a superlative alternative to Apple, assuming you are not doing color-accurate work.

I am pretty sure that Apple will release something tantalizing in the next couple of months. But I don't think they will accept loss of face by jettisoning the absolutely abominable keyboard, removing the vomitous touch bar and rejiggering the ports. The keyboard, by the way, is not horrible not because of its typing attributes, but because it's unforgiving of any extended environmental stress, such as accumulation of dirt and continuous internal heat.

They might shoe-horn the faster Intel processor (if they don't I am done with them for good.) They will update the keyboard to butterfly keyboard v.3, but they will not fundamentally change the design. They might put more weird symbols on the keys, why not add a hedera on one of the keys, huh? (LOL)

They will not modify the port configuration. They will not disinter the Mag Safe connector. They will do nothing other than, maybe, squeezing a faster processor into the chassis and, maybe, re-branding the GPU and shrinking bezels somewhat. I really hope I am wrong.

Frankly, if they are able to stick an i9 in it, I just might buy it. Despite my perfervid animus for Apple right now, I will still buy their stuff, as long as it's better than what was offered before.

EDIT: This is just late night scapulimancy induced by staring at to many progress bars. Don't judge me for being too optimistic.

we just end user . Just hope our rant be heard . We just want worth value product only. At least not slow and work out of the box

 

[throAU]

I see a lot of talk of Windows vs. macOS here and how “oh i’d like to go to PC but windows is crap” type discussion.

My new desktop is running Fedora 28. Everything works out of the box (unlike if i was to make a hackintosh out of it). As a Unix workstation/VM platform, its difficult to fault.

The only things missing for me are multimedia apps, which admittedly i don’t use that much and can virtualize in Windows if i have to in a pinch (will a full hardware passthrough Vega 64 graphics card dedicated to that virtual machine).

So yeah. For just over half the price of a mildly expanded base model iMac pro with Vega 56, i have an 8 core, 16 thread 4Ghz (Ryzen 2700X) fully-SSD machine (1.7TB of SSD) with dual Vega 64s and 32 GB of RAM...

 

[bluecoast]

I tend to disagree. They make the laptops for a broad range of users and are reasonably powerful plus thin and light for portability. They could easily make a broader range of personal computers that can compete with Dell / HP etc but choose not to. This is clearly a business strategy and a decision was made. A company does not just ignore things and 'forget' but make a conscious decision on their direction and goals.

There will be some reason why they haven't upgraded but I don't think a delay of a couple of months is reason for concern [excpeting Mac Pro and Mac mini which are both obviously ignored]. If they are not released within the next 4 months I would get a bit worried then, but really it is clear they are simply not a high priority for the company.

For the MBP 2016, I think they made a conscious decision to make it into a light and thin ultrabook that a senior manager or executive would be proud to have a status symbol to give keynote presentations on...

...And one that developers and creatives MIGHT be able to use for their work.

I think that’s the part that offends so many people - turning a machine that they relied on into a compromised ultrabook, that no one was asking for.

What they should’ve done is to have:

• Updated the Air to the form factor of a modern ultrabook (the Air invented the concept of the ultrabook in the first place)
• Kept the MBP as a mobile workhorse and not shaved off those crucial few mm in the redesign

This would’ve left them with no sub $1000 machine, potentially but maybe the entry level Air could’ve had a non Retina display and a weaker processor etc.

Or they could’ve kept the old Air on sale - but that would be asanine right?

 

[Bacillus]

And maybe Apple has done the math and decided that whatever money they lose from not updating the Mac in a timely fashion is worth it so they can keep channeling all their resources and manpower on whatever new initiatives they are focusing on?

It’s an unpopular opinion, but what if Apple is making the wrong decision now (neglecting the Mac) so that they can make the right decision in the future (more people working on initiatives they believe will allow Apple to maintain their edge in the future?)

Yes, because with 100k employees and a trillion dollar financial momentum you can’t afford a Mac development team (and better save the distribution system for iFluff)