macOS Possible? (roulette patterns)

[seamuskrat]

You have an interesting goal.

Do you not think the developers of said roulette tables virtual or otherwise have a counter to handle what you suggest?

Yes it is true that a random number in an electronic world is algorithmic. However, you fail to realize the infinite number of variables that can be used to generate this number.

As others have said one generator for an unknown number of users. You could never have full access to all data. Time as a variable. IP address, username, any number of other factors.

Suppose they used an non-cryptographic genrator, and seeded it with the output of another, which in turn was seeded by another so so on. Even predictable systems with enough variables, or in your case missing information make your task feasibly impossible.

If you came out and said I know this is the algorithm used, how do I enginner it then you have a shot.

Add into this the sociallegal issues and the nature on online gambling itself. If the house cheats or games the system to their advantage you may be unable to beat it. If it is a smart system, as it sees you winning it will change up the play. Legal gambling has house odds in all cases. They may be slim, but it is how the casinos stay in business. Online is less than regulated and with offshore digital in reality you have no idea what you are getting into. In short some shady site could cap your 'luck' and alter it instantly. In short, there is no free way to game the system and cash in.

Perhaps if you had insider information from a knowledgeable source you would have enough dsata to begin to engineer the algorithm, but even then it requires considerable skill and knowledge. To what end is this all for? I have heard of US users winning big online and failing to get a penny of the funds. I believe many states consider it illegal to gamble online, so what recourse do you have if the site fails to pay you for a big win?

 

[Q-chan]

Fortunately this desire on "intelligent cheating" in gambling is an old one. If not so many famous old mathematicians had sunk their teeth into this cheating idea, I guess we would lack a lot of statistics algorithms today....

So somebody wins at the end...

 

[gnasher729]

If I could add a less technical/mathematical; and more social/legal: with a computer generated gambling system, how on Earth can you know they're even 'honestly' using a RNG, and not manipulating the results to reduce the win rate?

I don't do online gambling (probably for this reason! ) but it seems to me it would be very easy for these systems to cheat. Are they in any way regulated?

The reason why they wouldn't cheat is that without cheating, they have a sure way to make money, because the odds are stacked in their favour, and in the long run they are going to win. Cheating means someone knows you are cheating, and eventually someone will talk, and eventually you will suffer consequences.

 

[xStep]

The reason why they wouldn't cheat is that without cheating, they have a sure way to make money, because the odds are stacked in their favour, and in the long run they are going to win. Cheating means someone knows you are cheating, and eventually someone will talk, and eventually you will suffer consequences.

Right. Like the online poker sites, UltimateBet and sister company Absolute Poker, that had inside cheaters and the consequences that fell on them, NOT! Zero has happened to the thieves.

Never underestimate the greed of some people.

 

[SidBala]

This is a very good reason why you shouldn't play games of chance over a computer.

If you really want to, you should go to a casino and play a real roulette game.

Don't trust the electronic slots either.

 

[macsmurf]

I remember that in the early days of online gambling a couple of researchers actually broke an online game (I forget the details) by guessing the seed (and the algorithm). However, you can be pretty sure that the casinos took steps to rectify this problem.

Also, take a look at this: http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/01/ff_lottery/all/1

The problem is that analysing the pattern (if it exists) in any data is in fact so complicated that it has an entire branch of mathematics devoted to it (statistics).

The moral of the story is: If you're willing to learn and have enough talent to break these games you'll probably be able to get a regular job with a high enough salary that it still won't be worth your time.

 

[dmi]

Suppose they used an non-cryptographic genrator, and seeded it with the output of another, which in turn was seeded by another so so on. Even predictable systems with enough variables, or in your case missing information make your task feasibly impossible.

I wouldn't count on any online gambling site that dealt with real money being this naive.
Compounding non-cryptographically secure RNG's or adding extra variables can increase the amount of data you need to collect, but will not prevent standard crypanalysis techniques from eventually being able to predict the sequence. (and if it is not done right, one could easily end up with a sequence that is less random rather than more random)
But if done by someone who knows what they are doing, it is not hard to use a cryptographically secure RNG that would be infeasible for anyone to crack. (Unless the NSA has quantum computers or secret algorithms that no one else knows about)

 

[xStep]

I remember that in the early days of online gambling a couple of researchers actually broke an online game (I forget the details) by guessing the seed (and the algorithm). However, you can be pretty sure that the casinos took steps to rectify this problem.

I wouldn't count on any online gambling site that dealt with real money being this naive.

Those poker sites I mentioned used a very primitive encryption scheme (XOR) to secure their customers communication. If something that simple can be 'over looked', then one has to wonder about other sites capabilities, laziness, frugal disposition, or fraud intentions that would cause other terrible lapses.

By the way for those interested, UB and AP, are part of a new name, Cereus Poker Network. I'll never be tempted to use their products.