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Post Parts for Custom Built PC equivalent to Mac Pro!!!
- Thread starter Orange
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Especially when the equivalent Xeon is only few tenners more. I would understand it if it was severals hundreds more but it isn't plus you get ECC.
Plus, if you get a Worstation call computer, it's best to keep it's internals to Workstation class or level components. Skimping is NOT the way to go on technology.
Here is the info you requested..
Hey,
What do you mean by bin quality? The Processor was approved by Nanofrog and he told me so long it is D0 stepping, I am fine which it is. As for sleeping my mac pro, very rarely do I let it sleep.. my monitor blacks out after a certain time I specified and most of the time i leave it on 24 hours/7 days a week. I hardly put my mac to sleep though.
Turbo boot max for w3580 - Max Turbo Frequency 3.6 GHz
Turbo boot max for ci975 - Max Turbo Frequency 3.6 GHz
Voltage of w3580: Max TDP 130 W
VID Voltage Range 0.800V-1.375V
Voltage of i975: Max TDP 130 W
VID Voltage Range 0.800V-1.375V
Does it hyperthread? Yes! Here are the stats for this:
W3580: # of Cores 4
# of Threads 8
Core i7 975 - # of Cores 4
# of Threads 8
Conclusion: Based on the data at Intel's website, it can be seen that everything matches exactly as shown. Given this information it seems that the core i7-975(also called EXTREME) and the Xeon w3580 are EXACTLY alike, except for the fact that the w3580 makes use of ECC memory where as the 975 does not - Again, do I really need ECC memory?? What apps would require ECC versus those that don't? I am sure that ECC is not used very much inside the consumer realm, but it does seem to be used a lot in the business and server world as this type of memory is good for error checking when used within server or clustered enviornments.
Furthermore, I don't see what this wake from sleep issue is and what could be causing it, as you can see above.. everything is the same. Now, one thing that has me wondering: Is there a way to use DDR3 1333 memory on the mac pro using this core i7 975 I have, or am I stuck with 1066 as its a firmware issue and Apple as always, cripples firmware to not allow full specs of the hardware to run it?
Hey,
What do you mean by bin quality? The Processor was approved by Nanofrog and he told me so long it is D0 stepping, I am fine which it is. As for sleeping my mac pro, very rarely do I let it sleep.. my monitor blacks out after a certain time I specified and most of the time i leave it on 24 hours/7 days a week. I hardly put my mac to sleep though.
Turbo boot max for w3580 - Max Turbo Frequency 3.6 GHz
Turbo boot max for ci975 - Max Turbo Frequency 3.6 GHz
Voltage of w3580: Max TDP 130 W
VID Voltage Range 0.800V-1.375V
Voltage of i975: Max TDP 130 W
VID Voltage Range 0.800V-1.375V
Does it hyperthread? Yes! Here are the stats for this:
W3580: # of Cores 4
# of Threads 8
Core i7 975 - # of Cores 4
# of Threads 8
Conclusion: Based on the data at Intel's website, it can be seen that everything matches exactly as shown. Given this information it seems that the core i7-975(also called EXTREME) and the Xeon w3580 are EXACTLY alike, except for the fact that the w3580 makes use of ECC memory where as the 975 does not - Again, do I really need ECC memory?? What apps would require ECC versus those that don't? I am sure that ECC is not used very much inside the consumer realm, but it does seem to be used a lot in the business and server world as this type of memory is good for error checking when used within server or clustered enviornments.
Furthermore, I don't see what this wake from sleep issue is and what could be causing it, as you can see above.. everything is the same. Now, one thing that has me wondering: Is there a way to use DDR3 1333 memory on the mac pro using this core i7 975 I have, or am I stuck with 1066 as its a firmware issue and Apple as always, cripples firmware to not allow full specs of the hardware to run it?
My mac pro with the following bootrom:
MP41.0081.B08
Does not suffer from this issue.. I just tested my sleep function and it seems to work great! Now, the only other issue I can think of.. is there a way known to man when it comes to the 2009's, of unlocking 1333 to be used on the mac pro, or are we stuck at 1066 as Apple crippled the firmware?
MP41.0081.B08
Does not suffer from this issue.. I just tested my sleep function and it seems to work great! Now, the only other issue I can think of.. is there a way known to man when it comes to the 2009's, of unlocking 1333 to be used on the mac pro, or are we stuck at 1066 as Apple crippled the firmware?
Actually, building a hackintosh is very easy. But Mac Pros are nice machines as well.
Well, for some reason..
My mac pro works great using the core i7 975 processor.. sleeps great, and works great.. I have listed below under these threads the voltages for both the w3580 and i7 975 - and according to the analysis: both are exactly the same.
Mind me asking: what boot rom do you have? Mine is kind of weird.. as it says: B08 where as most have B07 OR B06. Could it be that the B08 is why I am able to do this?
My mac pro works great using the core i7 975 processor.. sleeps great, and works great.. I have listed below under these threads the voltages for both the w3580 and i7 975 - and according to the analysis: both are exactly the same.
Mind me asking: what boot rom do you have? Mine is kind of weird.. as it says: B08 where as most have B07 OR B06. Could it be that the B08 is why I am able to do this?
Apple only did validation testing with the parts they're using on the boards. So you can run into issues with other parts, whether it be the microcode isn't correct (i.e. wrong steppings), or the voltage regulator outputs don't quite match/work well with other parts (could be other issues that crop up as well).
That's what the validation testing is for. So anything, even other Xeons in the same family, are untested unless a user takes on that role. Though usually it will work, assuming they're truly from the same family (where steppings crop up as problems, as those can change during production).
For example, the earliest i7 (LGA1366) were C0, and the Xeons D0. It may not matter in this instance (I don't recall if anyone tried with this stepping), but the 980X is B1, which won't work without new microcode.
Stepping for this processor I bought.
Hey Nano!
Ok, as you remember I paid 603 dollars for the w3580, however I changed my mind at the last moment and decided to get the core i7 975 which the seller actually told me would be much better for my system.. I asked him what the stepping is for the core i7-975(the w3580 equi) - he told me it is D0 stepping just LIKE the w3580!
I have no issues with this processor at all.. I don't know why others would be having these issues, but also I noticed that my bootrom is different than everyone elses: Mine is a B08 where as the last firmware update for the mac pros of 2009 is B06 OR B07.. Could it be... that the B08 is allowing me to do this? Here is my bootrom info:
MP41.0081.B08
Strange.. when I downloaded all the firmware updates for my 2009 mac pro(audio bug problem, overheating problem) - it wouldn't install.. it IGNORED all of them! Could it be that since this machine was built last month, maybe just maybe I might have a higher revision based mac pro?
Oh, and also checked the intel website.. comparing numbers and specs with the w3580 and i7 975 - ALL OF THEM ARE EXACTLY THE SAME!!! Same D0 stepping.. the only thing that separates the XEON and i7 is ECC memory and I don't need it, not one bit.
As for the 980x, and its xeon brothers - yes.. B1 stepping won't work at all as the microcode would need to be flashed to the EFI chip and I am sure this would be a very tedious task even for most.. and I think it goes beyond the scope of these forums.
Hey Nano!
Ok, as you remember I paid 603 dollars for the w3580, however I changed my mind at the last moment and decided to get the core i7 975 which the seller actually told me would be much better for my system.. I asked him what the stepping is for the core i7-975(the w3580 equi) - he told me it is D0 stepping just LIKE the w3580!
I have no issues with this processor at all.. I don't know why others would be having these issues, but also I noticed that my bootrom is different than everyone elses: Mine is a B08 where as the last firmware update for the mac pros of 2009 is B06 OR B07.. Could it be... that the B08 is allowing me to do this? Here is my bootrom info:
MP41.0081.B08
Strange.. when I downloaded all the firmware updates for my 2009 mac pro(audio bug problem, overheating problem) - it wouldn't install.. it IGNORED all of them! Could it be that since this machine was built last month, maybe just maybe I might have a higher revision based mac pro?
Oh, and also checked the intel website.. comparing numbers and specs with the w3580 and i7 975 - ALL OF THEM ARE EXACTLY THE SAME!!! Same D0 stepping.. the only thing that separates the XEON and i7 is ECC memory and I don't need it, not one bit.
As for the 980x, and its xeon brothers - yes.. B1 stepping won't work at all as the microcode would need to be flashed to the EFI chip and I am sure this would be a very tedious task even for most.. and I think it goes beyond the scope of these forums.
What?
Microcode? What do you mean? The i7 975 works in my machine without problems.. same stepping of D0 as the w3580.. just using non-ecc memory now.
Microcode? What do you mean? The i7 975 works in my machine without problems.. same stepping of D0 as the w3580.. just using non-ecc memory now.
That's the range of voltage, it cannot be more than a one number at a time lol. It might be more or less for the Xeon when in use, I don't know or care. The TDP is also the maximum power usage, it may vary so Xeon might be more or less power efficient, again, I don't know and care even less as the difference would be so small anyway
I can provide the voltages for you..
W3580: VID Voltage Range 0.800V-1.375V, Max TDP: 130 W.
i7-975: VID Voltage Range 0.800V-1.375V, Max TDP: 130 W, also.
As you can see? Both the w3580 and i7-975 are exactly the same, except that the xeon uses ECC memory, while the i7-975 uses non-ECC memory.
Here is the exact site I got this info from:
http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=39723 - W3580
http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=37153 - i7 975
*Only one difference I saw was that the w3580 DOES support DDR3-1333, but since Apple crippled the firmware like it always does, we can't make use of DDR3 1333 memory.. unless someone has figured out a way to do it. But all in all, the specs for the w3580 and i7-975 are ALL the same.. so I don't see any irregularities at all.
W3580: VID Voltage Range 0.800V-1.375V, Max TDP: 130 W.
i7-975: VID Voltage Range 0.800V-1.375V, Max TDP: 130 W, also.
As you can see? Both the w3580 and i7-975 are exactly the same, except that the xeon uses ECC memory, while the i7-975 uses non-ECC memory.
Here is the exact site I got this info from:
http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=39723 - W3580
http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=37153 - i7 975
*Only one difference I saw was that the w3580 DOES support DDR3-1333, but since Apple crippled the firmware like it always does, we can't make use of DDR3 1333 memory.. unless someone has figured out a way to do it. But all in all, the specs for the w3580 and i7-975 are ALL the same.. so I don't see any irregularities at all.
That's the range of voltage, it doesn't mean that they will be using the same voltage when in use. Same applies to TDP. Someone with both CPUs should test what voltage it's using when idle and when under full load. For example, i7 may have voltage of 1.3V while Xeon has voltage of 1.2V. All Bloomfield share the same range of voltage and TDP but it doesn't mean that they are actually using the same as the voltage is not a single number, it changes.
bottom line..
It works in my machine. I can run a program called fractal and see how it reacts under heavy load, but as far as I can see everything is normal.. the good news is that if I decide to return the processor I can to Velocity Micro within 90 days and exchange if for the w3580 if need be.
But as mentioned in a few threads back, anything w36xx isn't going to work as the stepping is B1 and without the microcode from what will be hopefully a 2010 mac pro, this won't happen.
It works in my machine. I can run a program called fractal and see how it reacts under heavy load, but as far as I can see everything is normal.. the good news is that if I decide to return the processor I can to Velocity Micro within 90 days and exchange if for the w3580 if need be.
But as mentioned in a few threads back, anything w36xx isn't going to work as the stepping is B1 and without the microcode from what will be hopefully a 2010 mac pro, this won't happen.
I realize that nobody actually wants Xeons or the associated expense, but I just thought I'd point it out:
If your machine isn't using Xeons, it's certainly not equivalent to the Mac Pro. You can argue this out and claim the uselessness of Xeons until the cows come home, but no build is "equivalent" without them.
That having been said, I'm now curious as to total cost of an actual mostly equivalent build (Rominator's point about the motherboard) that is an actual Xeon system. You'd also need the kilowatt power supply, four PCIe slots, etc. I guess substituting a card for ports like firewire 800 would be acceptable, as I'm not sure how many motherboards carry them.
If your machine isn't using Xeons, it's certainly not equivalent to the Mac Pro. You can argue this out and claim the uselessness of Xeons until the cows come home, but no build is "equivalent" without them.
That having been said, I'm now curious as to total cost of an actual mostly equivalent build (Rominator's point about the motherboard) that is an actual Xeon system. You'd also need the kilowatt power supply, four PCIe slots, etc. I guess substituting a card for ports like firewire 800 would be acceptable, as I'm not sure how many motherboards carry them.
The only thing I have against Xeons are the high mark-up price. After that, its the same thing as the desktop CPU without a disabled QPI.
I posted a combo with that... here let me post it up again.
Pic
Attachments
W5590 in Single Processor Mac Pro?
So the W5590 3.33GHz Xeon processor would work as a processor upgrade for an Early 2009 model Mac Pro? Say I had a 2.66GHz quad (with the 5520) and wanted to upgrade the chip to this W5590. Would it work? Much help appreciated.
Thanks! See below:
Edit, wait, wouldn't I need a W3580 instead? The dual processor machines use the 55xx series, right?
So the W5590 3.33GHz Xeon processor would work as a processor upgrade for an Early 2009 model Mac Pro? Say I had a 2.66GHz quad (with the 5520) and wanted to upgrade the chip to this W5590. Would it work? Much help appreciated.
Thanks! See below:
Edit, wait, wouldn't I need a W3580 instead? The dual processor machines use the 55xx series, right?
Theoretically it should work because they are the same Gainstown CPU. Practially, no idea, I haven't done so myself.
I think this is the processor for the upgrade I should be looking at instead, about $500 - $600 cheaper:
As I mentioned before, you may actually be a test subject with it (part of the validation testing). But if it wasn't specifically stated, you're not aware of it (i.e. general window about sending report data, without any specific mention/information on what's sent).
Voltages are set in the board's firmware (controls the voltage regulators). So the VID is the same for whatever part that's in it (assuming it meets specs otherwise, such as the correct steppings).
OC capable boards usually allow for voltage adjustments (user accessible settings). Otherwise they're fixed.
From a purely technical POV, they're not. Just really close.
Where the issue for many comes in, is the fact that most users don't actually need ECC. In those cases, they can't but help notice the price differences in the retail market. In the component markets though, the prices are the same on Intel's published Quantity Price List, so the cost is theoretically the same (variations do actually occur, depending on the exact procurement method used, which is based on quantity purchased).
As in Xeon and ECC? Or i7's and non ECC?
In either situation, the PSU and case alone can be reduced spec wise to make a noticeable difference in price. BTW, the PSU rating in the MP is peak power (extremely common BTW), not continuous. So for a decent continuous rated unit, you'd only need to be looking at a 700W model, not a 1kW unit.
Just in case you get bored and take the time to cost out such a system/s.
If you have an Octad (Dual Processor) system, then the W5590 would work. Actually, it would work in the Quad as well, but is a waste of money, as the second QPI channel can't be used, and pushes the cost of the processor.
If the system is a Quad, then the W3580 would be the better choice, as it's quite a bit cheaper as you found out.
Wow!
My w3580 was a lot less expensive than that from velocity Micro.. around 600 bucks.. though it is used.
My w3580 was a lot less expensive than that from velocity Micro.. around 600 bucks.. though it is used.
I think this is the processor for the upgrade I should be looking at instead, about $500 - $600 cheaper: