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Power Mac G5 Quad Benchmarks
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contoursvt said:
I am curious avout this myself the thermalright XP-90 on my Athlon X2 has 4 liquid filled heat pipes that go from the copper base to the fins. It's very effective as it keeps my OC'd X2 at around 34c Idle and about 42c Full Load. I think a very good heat pipe solution is good enough for the G5. Then again I think the G5 runs somewhat hotter then the Athlon 64 / X2 / FX / Opteron series. I know my X2 3800+ consumes 89 watts. The 4800+ is about 110 watts.
Heat on laptop
The laptop in my sig sucks about 61-70 W power (depending on the power saver setting). IT can get pretty warm and I know that no one in their right mind would put a liquid cooling system in a laptop. That makes me wonder too about the cooling system on a G5. To me, it seems that the G5 can run VERY hot (cheap heating for a geek?
) Again, I wonder....
The laptop in my sig sucks about 61-70 W power (depending on the power saver setting). IT can get pretty warm and I know that no one in their right mind would put a liquid cooling system in a laptop. That makes me wonder too about the cooling system on a G5. To me, it seems that the G5 can run VERY hot (cheap heating for a geek?
) Again, I wonder....
melgross said:
WOW.......PWETTY....lolSeriously this is very creative , Apple has by far the best combination of Power , Cooling and Quietness.
I think the Antec P-180 may come in at a close 2nd to the G5 case.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811129154
This is the Full review from SilentPCreview.com
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article254-page1.html
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article255-page1.html
as far as Heatpipes are concerned this is what i use
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article194-page1.html
wanna cool/quiet down that Video Card , take a look at this.
http://www.nvnews.net/reviews/zalman_vf700/index.shtml
I have all these components and i hand say my PC is every bit as quiet as any G5.
jiggie2g said:
Seriously this is very creative , Apple has by far the best combination of Power , Cooling and Quietness.
I think the Antec P-180 may come in at a close 2nd to the G5 case.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811129154
This is the Full review from SilentPCreview.com
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article254-page1.html
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article255-page1.html
Actually, if you want to get equivalent cooling and quietness in a high end cpu PC, you have to do what more PC'rs are doing all the time. Add a fridge yourself.
This is one of the latest.
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1881206,00.asp
Hmm I've never been a big fan of watercooling because i'm always paranoid about the pump failing. I cant imagine the dualcore G5's producing much more heat than my prescott based xeons (3Ghz ones). My dual xeons are being cooled by coolermaster heatpipes passively. Two 120mm fans behind the hard drives push air forward and one 120mm fan right behind the coolers help push some of that out (as well as the PSU fan). Generally its all quiet until a threshold temp I set gets triggered, then it ramps up the fan speeds. This way unless multiple fans fail at the same time, there really is no issue.
Now I'm sure that the pumps can be reliable as I do have an aquarium and knock on wood, the filters have been running for ever (Eheim's) but you never know....
Now I'm sure that the pumps can be reliable as I do have an aquarium and knock on wood, the filters have been running for ever (Eheim's) but you never know....
contoursvt said:Hmm I've never been a big fan of watercooling because i'm always paranoid about the pump failing. I cant imagine the dualcore G5's producing much more heat than my prescott based xeons (3Ghz ones). My dual xeons are being cooled by coolermaster heatpipes passively. Two 120mm fans behind the hard drives push air forward and one 120mm fan right behind the coolers help push some of that out (as well as the PSU fan). Generally its all quiet until a threshold temp I set gets triggered, then it ramps up the fan speeds. This way unless multiple fans fail at the same time, there really is no issue.
Now I'm sure that the pumps can be reliable as I do have an aquarium and knock on wood, the filters have been running for ever (Eheim's) but you never know....
Water cooling is not exactly a new technology. So far there have been no reports of any of these failing, or leaking.
In my lab, we had water cooling systems on our film processors that ran for over 15 years, until we got new equipment. These were big units, pushing over 10 gallons a minute through the radiators. Other things failed over the years, but not those.
These work under very little pressure.
By the way, when I was a partner in a pro and hi end audio company, until we sold it over 20 years ago, I was the first one to design a high power amp (for racetrack sound systems) that used heatpipes.
I know logically all should be fine and I even know that pumps and motors can be very reliable. Heck my car still has the stock fuel pump at 235,000 km (knock wood again). It should not even worry me because people dont keep computers that long (except servers maybe) but for what ever reason, I'd feel more comfortable with large air cooled coolers.
PS. since you were talking about audio systems and cooling, I will add that my old power amp (picked it up used) is really doing a good job of warming up this side of the basement. Normally I'd be kind of cold but its a few degrees warmer on this side of the basement. The amp is an old 50wpc class A threshold amp. Sucker puts out some heat My temperature probe says the amps heatsinks are around 116F. I love the warmth - sound and room warming
http://powerthings.com/pics/stereo1024.jpg
PS. since you were talking about audio systems and cooling, I will add that my old power amp (picked it up used) is really doing a good job of warming up this side of the basement. Normally I'd be kind of cold but its a few degrees warmer on this side of the basement. The amp is an old 50wpc class A threshold amp. Sucker puts out some heat
My temperature probe says the amps heatsinks are around 116F. I love the warmth - sound and room warming http://powerthings.com/pics/stereo1024.jpg
contoursvt said:I know logically all should be fine and I even know that pumps and motors can be very reliable. Heck my car still has the stock fuel pump at 235,000 km (knock wood again). It should not even worry me because people dont keep computers that long (except servers maybe) but for what ever reason, I'd feel more comfortable with large air cooled coolers.
PS. since you were talking about audio systems and cooling, I will add that my old power amp (picked it up used) is really doing a good job of warming up this side of the basement. Normally I'd be kind of cold but its a few degrees warmer on this side of the basement. The amp is an old 50wpc class A threshold amp. Sucker puts out some heat
http://powerthings.com/pics/stereo1024.jpg
I try not to worry about what I can't control. Besides, this is a pretty potent cooling system. Heat pipes can't come close to a pumped liquid system. while they are very good, they have a much higher thermal resistence.
Threshold made pretty good products. A lot of them are still around. At one of my audio clubs recently, we listened to one of their old pre-amps. It still sounded pretty good.
But 50 watts class A. At least it isn't tubes!
AFAIK, Apple has had pretty good luck with the cooling systems in the Dual 2.5 and 2.7 models. My guess is that that if there had been any serious mishaps due to the liquid cooling we would have heard about it. Imagine the pics all over one of these threads... My Dual 2.5 G5 has been running largely 24/7 for the past year - no problems.
The more recent DIY cooling kits for PCs are leaps and bounds ahead of where they used to be. I investigated putting one in my son's gaming machine about 18 months ago and balked. We're about to re-visit that decision and things appear much better.
And we have some really old equipment in my lab that is water-cooled... really old.
JT
My Dual 2.5 G5 has been running largely 24/7 for the past year - no problems.The more recent DIY cooling kits for PCs are leaps and bounds ahead of where they used to be. I investigated putting one in my son's gaming machine about 18 months ago and balked. We're about to re-visit that decision and things appear much better.
And we have some really old equipment in my lab that is water-cooled... really old.
JT
Platform said:Thats the old dual 2.5 not the quad....
Whatr about the quad pics
Pics from one of the first guy to get one: http://homepage.mac.com/jasonhh/PhotoAlbum2.html
Not much room left in that box!
JT
Platform said:Sorry to be rude, but I can see that at apple.com......covers off, etc.
Usually if you make your question more explicit you will get "better" or more detailed answers.
Presumably there are not enough of these machines in the wild for anyone to have completely dismantled the cooling system or to have uncovered the service manual.
JT
Would be interesting to know if only the quad is water cooled or the other Dual core machines too?
Something else I wonder. The liquid in the cooling system is described as 80% water, the rest is ethanol, antibacterial fluids etc. In the tech specs one can read for all the PowerPC G5 systems using temperatures between 10°C and up, but storeage temperatures between -40°C and up? Can the liquid cooling system be damaged at minus temperatures?
regards
Andy
Something else I wonder. The liquid in the cooling system is described as 80% water, the rest is ethanol, antibacterial fluids etc. In the tech specs one can read for all the PowerPC G5 systems using temperatures between 10°C and up, but storeage temperatures between -40°C and up? Can the liquid cooling system be damaged at minus temperatures?
regards
Andy
I think that is awesome, especially the CPU usage. None of them, ever, reached the top line like the others did.JCT said:
slooksterPSV said:
LOL, I thought the same thing! Good thing my current extra storage is all external... now all I need is a PCIe SATA card and I am set!
Dec 26th seems like a long way away...
JT
trrosen said:
so let me get this straight...1 core of a DC 2.5 ghz chip, in the Quad, can beat out a 1 core 2.7 ghz chip? something's not right there.
Computers do provide heating, but it's not cheap ... and yes, I do run my computers in the winter as heaters! (Only to supplement steam.) Electric heat is probably the most expensive form of heat you can find. And let's not think about summertime... If Intel can provide Motorola-style efficiency, I'm all for it. (There was a time when a Mac would provide the same power as a PC using less than half the power!)
vassillios said:
One of the biggest problems with the G5 is that it has the smallest L2 cache of all its competitors.
512KB cache has been considered to be far too small to let the core perform up to its potential.
I'm sure that everyone here has heard, over and over, about the PM's memory latency problems. This is what a cache is designed to help overcome.
The 1MB cache per core in the new chips gives the core a boost in speed because it's not pounding that high latency memory bus as often. There is around 6% speed boost because of it.
The G5 could greatly benefit from a 2MB L2 cache. With that, it could add another 10% performance to the 6% it just gained. IBM's concerns about die size, costs, and yield have not made Apple happy. One of the reasons they are leaving.
Right now, the G5 is close to the Xeons, but still noticeably behind the Opterons. Whomever it was that posted the other day and had it the other way around is WAY too optimistic.
With 2MB cache, the G5 would beat the Xeon, and would be close to the Opteron. But if IBM really wanted to see the G5 fly past, it would need to reinstall the L3 controller it removed from the POWER when it made these. A 4MB L3 cache would add another 15-20% to the 16% added by a 2MB L2.
Sigh, but it will never happen.
melgross said:
it floors me that IBM crippled the G5. They truly could have made something great. oh well... my new DC 2.3 get's the job done just fine. i basically use my mac for music production (using Logic), surfing and stuff like that. i know that logic would benefit from the quad since it's a multi-threaded application, but my projects don't require that much horsepower....or at least that's how i reason to myself for not spending the extra $$$$ on the quad...i used it for Logic.
i still need to get photoshop at some point (still using windows for now).
i only play 1 video game...Star Wars Battlefront and i haven't gotten that for Mac yet; i'm going to wait until Battlefront 2 comes out.
melgross said:
That high-speed memory costs $$$$. I imagine that the unit cost would rise to unacceptable levels if they added 1MB more cache...especially for the Quad.