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powerbook 15 uneven screen backlighting
- Thread starter Paolo30
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I'll definitely keep you up to date but I don't foresee any problems. It's been getting a lot of use the last couple weeks and I've kept it going pretty solid for the last few days and the screen seems just fine. The only issues I see with the screen is the bottom corners are slightly dimmer. When I say the bottom corners I mean the bottom 1/8 square of each bottom corner. This doesn't seem to be any different then nearly any other lcd I have ever seen though. Still no stuck or dead pixels or screen backlighting or white spot problems though.
weeeeeeeeell, new screen installed, and no dead pixels 
but I'll be darned if the backlighting just hasn't unevened itself again....
So I have this theory (which may or may not be shot down in flames) that this is an issue with the ALS, and not the screen per se. In any case There is No Way on God's Green Earth that I am getting my poor little machine taken apart again - it's far too brutal:
http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/systems/PB_G4_15_AL_takeapart/AL_PB_G4_take-apart.html
and a screen with no dead pixels is nothing to sneeze at.
So I really hope this is a firmware issue and it can be resolved by an update.
Which brings me to my next question...
but I'll be darned if the backlighting just hasn't unevened itself again....So I have this theory (which may or may not be shot down in flames) that this is an issue with the ALS, and not the screen per se. In any case There is No Way on God's Green Earth that I am getting my poor little machine taken apart again - it's far too brutal:
http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/systems/PB_G4_15_AL_takeapart/AL_PB_G4_take-apart.html
and a screen with no dead pixels is nothing to sneeze at.
So I really hope this is a firmware issue and it can be resolved by an update.
Which brings me to my next question...
Originally posted by Paolo30
weeeeeeeeell, new screen installed, and no dead pixels
So I have this theory (which may or may not be shot down in flames) that this is an issue with the ALS, and not the screen per se. In any case There is No Way on God's Green Earth that I am getting my poor little machine taken apart again - it's far too brutal:
http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/systems/PB_G4_15_AL_takeapart/AL_PB_G4_take-apart.html
and a screen with no dead pixels is nothing to sneeze at.
So I really hope this is a firmware issue and it can be resolved by an update.
Which brings me to my next question...
There is no way that the backlight issue is a software problem I just don't see it being possible. There is a good chance though that it's a cable or a connector on the motherboard though which I'm sure they haven't been replacing.
What about a mechanical issue with the hinge - and by that I mean the hinge being too tight, and the screen being opened and closed causes the backlight thing.
My "perfect" screen is starting to look a lot like the last one - big dark area at the bottom right. Not to mention the left hand side of the screen....
Ridiculous? You be the judge...
My "perfect" screen is starting to look a lot like the last one - big dark area at the bottom right. Not to mention the left hand side of the screen....
Ridiculous? You be the judge...
From what I have see if you are thinking twisting and bending of the screen the LCD is much more vulnerable then the backlight. I'm thinking since it's a repeating thing that it's most likely the cable routing, the connection on the motherboard, or a controller chip on the motherboard.
Our screen has loosened up a lot in the few weeks we have had it. In fact if you bounce it very lightly on your lap the screen will fall backwards as it bounces.
Do you think that if it is a cable/inverter board situation that it would be rectified by fixing just that and not replacing the screen, or would the damage have already been done to the backlight tubes?
I don't want to play dead pixel lottery again, is all.
I don't want to play dead pixel lottery again, is all.
The backlight shouldn't be affected at all. I think it's just not receiving the correct signals or power.
Just got my new 15" Al book, after a lengthy delay due to LCD issues....
Perfect screen, no dead pixels, even backlighting.
Perfect screen, no dead pixels, even backlighting.
Good good. Hows the keyboard nice and even no lumps? Also what about the lid are the two corners even when closed?
Dude, I think your math is way off. There are nowhere near 25% of PowerBook 15" experiencing the screen problems.Originally posted by Paolo30
ya, fido has gotten it in za hooee.
let's do some math - around november 160,000 units sold. 25% screen failure rate (that's white spot, not dim screen, too) - 40,000 units repaired/replaced. That'$ gotta hurt...
Problem is, if this is recurring and the 15 is truly an aluminum lemon, what does one get instead? I really don't like any of the pcs that I've looked at - they all run Windoze.
12 is too small. 17 is too big. What could be just right?
Oh and current theory on darkening screen is bung inverter board. Or something.
http://www.macfixit.com/staticpages/index.php?page=20031124074921199
I have had mine for about two months now and no problems whatsoever (knock on wood).
Great good to hear so was ours. Though ours had a power button failure after a week. They replaced the motherboard and all is well. We've had it for about a month now and it's just working great.
Good for you. But it wasn't my math, it was the math on the developer site I was trawling for info on this. Could you please tell me exactly how many machines are failing?
another thing, I just posted to a thread on Apple Discussions about my lackluster experience with Apple "Care" - no flaming, no swearing, just disappointed - and it was DELETED.
Whatever you do, don't disagree.
They have been deleting messages related to this and it's well known. The reason in my opinion is that there is no reason to post to there boards complaining because AppleCare is dealing with the issue. It's really too bad they haven't replaced the actual part that has failed in your machine.
As I stated before I think 25% is way too high.
No, I can't tell you how many machines are failing. Only Apple has that kind of information and they're not going to release it to the public. I just know from anecdotal evidence that it has to be much less than 25%. Can you imagine how much this message board would be flooded with complaints if anywhere near 25% of people had these problems?
The problem is, as has been said before, the few that do have issues (I'm pretty sure it's less than 10%) are very vocal about them. I can't say that I blame you for complaining. I would be angry if mine had problems too, but fortunately I always make large purchases like this on a credit card so that I have the extra "leverage" that a charge-back gives me.
If I get any crap from a reseller, I simply demand a refund and threaten a charge-back if they don't give it to me. Works every time. Your credit card company or bank will definitely go to bat for you if you got a defective product and the burden of proof is on the reseller to prove that the product wasn't defective.
Well, this vocal complainant is forced to recant.
I recant.
I cannot find the site that quoted that figure, but I was reasonably sure that I hadn't pulled it out of thin air - not so sure now. In any case, it was pure speculation. My humble apologies. The cost quoted for replacing screens is reliable, however.
Apple prevails. Rev B will be a thing to be reckoned with.
BTW I spoke with an truly excellent tech at AppleCare Australia today. Thank you Anthony. I look forward to finding out what the problem really is, as some others out there do.
I recant.
I cannot find the site that quoted that figure, but I was reasonably sure that I hadn't pulled it out of thin air - not so sure now. In any case, it was pure speculation. My humble apologies. The cost quoted for replacing screens is reliable, however.
Apple prevails. Rev B will be a thing to be reckoned with.
BTW I spoke with an truly excellent tech at AppleCare Australia today. Thank you Anthony. I look forward to finding out what the problem really is, as some others out there do.
Just remember that 80% of all percentages are made up on the spot.
Including this one.
I hope you get your problems fixed. It could be worse you could have a no name 3rd party PC and the company could be telling you that it's working within spec.
To buy, or not to buy?
Hello all - my first post to MacRumors, though I'm a long-time lurker.
This LCD issue has got me a little worried, as I'm about ready to go out and buy the new 15" AlBook.
I've had my current TiBook 400 for nearly 3 years, and it's been 100% reliable in every way. When I did my homework before buying this one, there were a few gripes on the Apple boards and MacRumors, mostly with regard to the DVD and the fan. I took a chance, and have never looked back.
Now that it's time to upgrade, I'm seeing the same gripes about the optical drive and fan, and that's fine, but this display issue looks like it could be a much more serious problem (not to mention reports of battery life at the 2 hour range). So my question for your collective expertise is:
Buy now? Or wait six months and hope for improvements?
Hello all - my first post to MacRumors, though I'm a long-time lurker.
This LCD issue has got me a little worried, as I'm about ready to go out and buy the new 15" AlBook.
I've had my current TiBook 400 for nearly 3 years, and it's been 100% reliable in every way. When I did my homework before buying this one, there were a few gripes on the Apple boards and MacRumors, mostly with regard to the DVD and the fan. I took a chance, and have never looked back.
Now that it's time to upgrade, I'm seeing the same gripes about the optical drive and fan, and that's fine, but this display issue looks like it could be a much more serious problem (not to mention reports of battery life at the 2 hour range). So my question for your collective expertise is:
Buy now? Or wait six months and hope for improvements?
Re: To buy, or not to buy?
Buy now. Most of the PowerBooks are perfectly fine. You always take a small risk when you buy any product, but if there are problems, Apple will fix it. I think if you were to actually count the number of good units vs. the number of "problem" units, the statistics would be very good. The problem is, when someone gets a computer that works fine, you never hear from them on these forums. The people you do hear from are the ones with issues. So if you make your purchasing decisions based on reading these message boards, you might not ever buy any Apple computer just because someone has had issues with every single computer out there.
If those people having problems are only 1% of the total number being sold, the chances are pretty good that you'll get a great computer.
Buy now. Most of the PowerBooks are perfectly fine. You always take a small risk when you buy any product, but if there are problems, Apple will fix it. I think if you were to actually count the number of good units vs. the number of "problem" units, the statistics would be very good. The problem is, when someone gets a computer that works fine, you never hear from them on these forums. The people you do hear from are the ones with issues. So if you make your purchasing decisions based on reading these message boards, you might not ever buy any Apple computer just because someone has had issues with every single computer out there.
If those people having problems are only 1% of the total number being sold, the chances are pretty good that you'll get a great computer.
Re: To buy, or not to buy?
I think the problems were pretty prevalent a month or two ago but have all butt been worked out.
I haven't had the fan or DVD issue that you mention. The fan only comes on when you are doing intense cpu tasks and it's not very loud. Also if you are doing tasks that require the fan to come on you're only going to get an hour to an hour and a half of battery life anyways. Normal usage for text, email, browsing and the such I've gotten over 3 hours in real time not just by the battery meter.
I at least wait until after tomorrow thought to make a purchase.
I think the problems were pretty prevalent a month or two ago but have all butt been worked out.
I haven't had the fan or DVD issue that you mention. The fan only comes on when you are doing intense cpu tasks and it's not very loud. Also if you are doing tasks that require the fan to come on you're only going to get an hour to an hour and a half of battery life anyways. Normal usage for text, email, browsing and the such I've gotten over 3 hours in real time not just by the battery meter.
I at least wait until after tomorrow thought to make a purchase.
Re: Re: To buy, or not to buy?
My experience:
-2003/12/04: I orderd my 15" PowerBook.
-2003/12/27: It developed Uneven Illumination in the space of a few minutes after I set it down on a table (like I'd done a few dozen times before).
-2003/12/30: Shipped into Apple for repair, after a tech at a local Authorized Service Center looked at it for 2 seconds and said, "Oh! Yeah, that's wrong."
-2004/01/05: Recieved PB back from Apple. Replaced the screen (Part Number 646-0205, Samsung WS), and apparently did an Archive and Install of Panther (10.3)
As illumin8 mentioned, most of the PB's are probably fine. Some of them that are "fine" are actually broken, I'm sure, but their novice owners don't realize that the Uneven Illumination isn't normal for an LCD... or they just wait, thinking it'll get better. News flash, it won't.
Another misconception people have is that "if there are problems, Apple will fix it". Also wrong. This is an exercise in semantics, but it's important:
Apple will replace the parts that are obviously broken; typically the LCD. This is not necessarily what caused the problem in the first place. It's the distinction between treating the symptoms or the disease: you can take decongestants and cough suppressants when you have a cold, but these aren't gonig to kill the virus that's causing you to feel sick.
Apple can continue to replace LCDs, but when owners have a recurrence of this problem, it's obvious the LCDs are failing because of another, unaddressed problem. I can't believe that many LCDs are defective; something else is causing it.
So Apple will attempt to fix your problems. As many owners that have had a recurrence of Uneven Illumination will tell you (and it's most of the people that have it develop in the first place), they don't always succeed in "fixing" it.
The important word in that sentence is "but". Meaning the problem of Uneven Illumination has not been worked out.
My experience:
-2003/12/04: I orderd my 15" PowerBook.
-2003/12/27: It developed Uneven Illumination in the space of a few minutes after I set it down on a table (like I'd done a few dozen times before).
-2003/12/30: Shipped into Apple for repair, after a tech at a local Authorized Service Center looked at it for 2 seconds and said, "Oh! Yeah, that's wrong."
-2004/01/05: Recieved PB back from Apple. Replaced the screen (Part Number 646-0205, Samsung WS), and apparently did an Archive and Install of Panther (10.3)
As illumin8 mentioned, most of the PB's are probably fine. Some of them that are "fine" are actually broken, I'm sure, but their novice owners don't realize that the Uneven Illumination isn't normal for an LCD... or they just wait, thinking it'll get better. News flash, it won't.
Another misconception people have is that "if there are problems, Apple will fix it". Also wrong. This is an exercise in semantics, but it's important:
Apple will replace the parts that are obviously broken; typically the LCD. This is not necessarily what caused the problem in the first place. It's the distinction between treating the symptoms or the disease: you can take decongestants and cough suppressants when you have a cold, but these aren't gonig to kill the virus that's causing you to feel sick.
Apple can continue to replace LCDs, but when owners have a recurrence of this problem, it's obvious the LCDs are failing because of another, unaddressed problem. I can't believe that many LCDs are defective; something else is causing it.
So Apple will attempt to fix your problems. As many owners that have had a recurrence of Uneven Illumination will tell you (and it's most of the people that have it develop in the first place), they don't always succeed in "fixing" it.
Re: Re: Re: To buy, or not to buy?
I don't think there are new 15" Powerbooks still coming with this problem there may but they are probably old stock. That's why I said a month or two ago of which your machine one of.
It's truly unfortunate that they have not fixed it yet though it is not that they are refusing to and haven't tried. You got to hand it to them they are trying which is a lot better then some companies out there. At this point I think you just need to talk to them on the phone about this and explain that they haven't fixed it in so so many tries and that there is obviously something they are missing. Be very courteous about this as being nasty will get you no where. If they can't do anything more then they have previously then ask for a supervisor and work your way up the ladder being very courteous the whole way. Once you reach someone that can actually pull strings see what they will do for you if they are not willing to do anymore then replace your screen again then just sort of ask about lemon laws don't threaten them yet. Typically that's all you need and you will probably get a new machine out of it if they don't see another way to fix it. Make it clear once action has been taken that you hope this is the last time and if it isn't you may have to pursue legal action but be sure to do this without being aggressive or mean.
Originally posted by Darkside
The important word in that sentence is "but". Meaning the problem of Uneven Illumination has not been worked out.
My experience:
-2003/12/04: I orderd my 15" PowerBook.
-2003/12/27: It developed Uneven Illumination in the space of a few minutes after I set it down on a table (like I'd done a few dozen times before).
-2003/12/30: Shipped into Apple for repair, after a tech at a local Authorized Service Center looked at it for 2 seconds and said, "Oh! Yeah, that's wrong."
-2004/01/05: Recieved PB back from Apple. Replaced the screen (Part Number 646-0205, Samsung WS), and apparently did an Archive and Install of Panther (10.3)
As illumin8 mentioned, most of the PB's are probably fine. Some of them that are "fine" are actually broken, I'm sure, but their novice owners don't realize that the Uneven Illumination isn't normal for an LCD... or they just wait, thinking it'll get better. News flash, it won't.
Another misconception people have is that "if there are problems, Apple will fix it". Also wrong. This is an exercise in semantics, but it's important:
Apple will replace the parts that are obviously broken; typically the LCD. This is not necessarily what caused the problem in the first place. It's the distinction between treating the symptoms or the disease: you can take decongestants and cough suppressants when you have a cold, but these aren't gonig to kill the virus that's causing you to feel sick.
Apple can continue to replace LCDs, but when owners have a recurrence of this problem, it's obvious the LCDs are failing because of another, unaddressed problem. I can't believe that many LCDs are defective; something else is causing it.
So Apple will attempt to fix your problems. As many owners that have had a recurrence of Uneven Illumination will tell you (and it's most of the people that have it develop in the first place), they don't always succeed in "fixing" it.
I don't think there are new 15" Powerbooks still coming with this problem there may but they are probably old stock. That's why I said a month or two ago of which your machine one of.
It's truly unfortunate that they have not fixed it yet though it is not that they are refusing to and haven't tried. You got to hand it to them they are trying which is a lot better then some companies out there. At this point I think you just need to talk to them on the phone about this and explain that they haven't fixed it in so so many tries and that there is obviously something they are missing. Be very courteous about this as being nasty will get you no where. If they can't do anything more then they have previously then ask for a supervisor and work your way up the ladder being very courteous the whole way. Once you reach someone that can actually pull strings see what they will do for you if they are not willing to do anymore then replace your screen again then just sort of ask about lemon laws don't threaten them yet. Typically that's all you need and you will probably get a new machine out of it if they don't see another way to fix it. Make it clear once action has been taken that you hope this is the last time and if it isn't you may have to pursue legal action but be sure to do this without being aggressive or mean.