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powerbook 15 uneven screen backlighting

Me again,
I hate to chime in on this again but I think we need to re-evaluate how many people are actually having the uneven illumination issue. Sure any percentages are purely hypothetical, but this goes BOTH ways - all those saying that only 1% of machines have problems or it's a vocal minority - How do you know? Where do you get these figures?

Let's all have a look at this...
http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=194664

This, I know is no real indication of numbers, but all of us are in the dark as far as this is concerned.

Also, why is it considered such a crime to complain about the lousy service that some people have received from Apple? Are they beyond criticism? There seems to be a "grin and bear it" mentality endemic to this community. Anyone complaining is seen as rocking the boat. Maybe the boat needs to be rocked.

Now could everyone please change their desktop to all white and tell me what they see?
 
Originally posted by Paolo30
Let's all have a look at this...
http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=194664

This, I know is no real indication of numbers, but all of us are in the dark as far as this is concerned.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Throw the forum from Apple Discussions ("Uneven illumination") into the mix; over 80 posts there. I know, that doesn't mean 80 people have the problem, but those that do have the problem are understandably troubled and vocal.

I agree with Paolo30; "grin and bear it" is no way to deal with a serious, recurring flaw in a $2,000 to $3,000 machine, especially when many of the customers are graphics or web professionals that can't compromise on quality. For many of us, that's why we bought or switched to Macs.

I don't really care if the new systems being manufactured don't have this problem (and there's been no proof that this is true). Fact: people that order today will still probably be shipped a system that's a month or two old. Resellers and Apple itself will ship from the oldest items in inventory first.

Even when everyone who orders gets a new, hypothetically error-free system, there are still the existing customers like us that have old, broken ones. Since Apple keeps replacing screens and they keep failing, they're definatley not trying hard enough.

I'm always cordial to Techs when I speak with them on the phone. They usually only have slightly more info than I do, and sometimes they probably can't even tell customers all they know. They don't have authorization to approve a refund or a replacement, so obviously I escalate into Customer Service if that's required.

A note for you, MacBandit: telling them you want a refund/replacement and "just sort of asking about lemon laws" won't get you one unless you fight for it. Outside of the 10 day after-purchase window, it takes something serious and obvious for Apple to "graciously" provide a replacement. It costs them too much, so they make it hard. I can attest to that.

Besides, just mentioning lemon laws amounts to a threat; why would you mention it if you aren't going to persue it when you don't get what you want?! :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by Darkside
A note for you, MacBandit: telling them you want a refund/replacement and "just sort of asking about lemon laws" won't get you one unless you fight for it. Outside of the 10 day after-purchase window, it takes something serious and obvious for Apple to "graciously" provide a replacement. It costs them too much, so they make it hard. I can attest to that.

Besides, just mentioning lemon laws amounts to a threat; why would you mention it if you aren't going to persue it when you don't get what you want?! :rolleyes:
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No I realize that about lemon laws but you can yell at them that you are going to sue them and take them to court because the product is a ****ty lemon or you can be nice and ask them if they think it's a lemon. That at least gets them to realize you may be serious. Also if the thing needs 3 or replacement screens it would have been cheaper to replace the whole thing in the first place.

I know about how to approach these people because I was a BMW motorcycle Service Manager for 5 years and I know what got me working for the customer and and I know what just pissed off BMW and made them fight back. If you have a good relationship with your BMW dealership you can get the world moved if you an angry ******* of a customer you may end in court and being told to lick BMWs feet your not owed anything. It's all about having a little tact and realizing the people you are talking to are just doing a job like anyone else. If the person you are talking to can't help you try to get someone who can.
 
Well, the apple care people told me that there were no such people when I asked to speak to a supervisor. I am a very polite person when dealing over the phone, but after talking to apple care for ten minutes steam was shooting out of my ears and I was straight onto the forums kicking and screaming. Why? Because customer care did not do what it is there for.

I know every large corporation has bad apples (pardon the pun), but to be treated as an irritation when I was onto my third screen on a machine I paid so much money for was nothing short of outrageous.

I'm getting off topic, I know. Apologies. Deep breaths. Calm blue ocean. Calm blue ocean.

I'm taking screen three back this week. Will let you know what screen four is like.:rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by Paolo30
Well, the apple care people told me that there were no such people when I asked to speak to a supervisor. I am a very polite person when dealing over the phone, but after talking to apple care for ten minutes steam was shooting out of my ears and I was straight onto the forums kicking and screaming. Why? Because customer care did not do what it is there for.

I know every large corporation has bad apples (pardon the pun), but to be treated as an irritation when I was onto my third screen on a machine I paid so much money for was nothing short of outrageous.

I'm getting off topic, I know. Apologies. Deep breaths. Calm blue ocean. Calm blue ocean.

I'm taking screen three back this week. Will let you know what screen four is like.:rolleyes:
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I feel for you. I wish I new someone you could call or write to at Apple.
 
Originally posted by MacBandit
I know about how to approach these people because I was a BMW motorcycle Service Manager for 5 years and I know what got me working for the customer and and I know what just pissed off BMW and made them fight back.
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Point taken; your experience is appreciated. :)

Sorry if I came off sounding condecending or argumentative; as Paolo30 just said, "Deep breaths. Calm blue ocean." This whole situation makes everyone angry (especially Paolo30; I feel your pain). It's very frustrating when you're civil, but as soon as they look at your case file, you feel their mood shift to a shade of surly.

Thanks for your suggestions, MacBandit; subtlety is definately the way to go.
 
Originally posted by Paolo30 Well, the apple care people told me that there were no such people when I asked to speak to a supervisor.
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My experience from my TiBook debacle: After the standard phone Tech Support people are the Engineers; they have Engineers for specific product lines. After that, I was told there was no other person to escalate it to within Tech Support.

The next step, I was told, was Customer Service. Not sure how many levels you can escalate there.

Paolo30, it really seems to be Customer Service time for you; there's little the Techs can do to help, since they've already "fixed" it three times and it keeps breaking.

Good luck... try mentioning lemon laws like MacBandit suggested, see what they say. ;)
 
Originally posted by Darkside
Point taken; your experience is appreciated. :)

Sorry if I came of sounding condecending or argumentative; as Paolo30 just said, "Deep breaths. Calm blue ocean." This whole situation makes everyone angry (especially Paolo30; I feel your pain). It's very frustrating when you're civil, but as soon as they look at your case file, you feel their mood shift to a shade of surly.

Thanks for your suggestions, MacBandit; subtlety is definately the way to go.
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Hey no problem I understand about the frustration. Things happen though and you have to remember one thing. Apple as with BMW may be good machines but they are still made by man not god so they do have problems.

There has to be a way of manipulating the system to working for you. It may be necessary to get on good accord with your local Apple reseller or Apple Store.

I know that when my wifes Al15"'s Power button failed it worked out really well to go down and talk to the service man at our local Apple reseller face to face.

He had a real problem customer right in front of me that was a lawyer and threatening all sorts of law suit stuff because his screen was cracked and the couldn't do anything about it under warranty.

I explained to him my experience with BMW and we laughed about the customer a bit and then we got to talking about our problem with our laptop and I was able to talk to him on his level technically. Because of our experiences and him knowing where I was coming from and I knowing where he was coming from we were able to get things worked out very well.
 
uh, I was talking to customer service. The tech I'd been talking to had pretty quickly gotten to the "I don't know" stage so I asked to speak to CS (mainly because I was losing money on jobs I couldn't process while the machine was being repaired and wanted some assurance of when I would receive a replacement/repair)
That's when things went downhill. I believe I did end up using the word "lemon" a couple of times, but the response was a brick wall. I did stop short of threatening litigation, however, but the 'vibe' was pretty unsympathetic coming from the lady I was speaking with.
I think maybe the fact that management told the underlings not to say anything about the al pb faults had something to do with her stonewalling. One of the earlier CS people I talked to actually blurted out that she was "really really sorry" that this had been happening with the al and "nothing like this has happened at Apple before." Nothing like what, I wonder?

and back to theories... somebody on the mmacnn forums had the idea that the problem was due to the backlight tube being improperly adhered to the diffuser .... think about it - if this is the case then it would make complete sense that the fault shows up after you open and close the screen a few times - that pencil thin fluoro tube is glued to a translucent white piece of plastic... and what if that glue job hasn't been done right... and you wiggle the hinge a few times... and Viola! - your backlight is sh*tted.

Just another theory...:rolleyes:
 
They replaced my whitespots screen in a hurry last week.

I don't feel like reading the whole thread, but if it makes anyone feel better about getting their screen fixed, I just had mine replaced for whitespots last week, and it only took two days to send it in and get it back.

I had a dark shadow on my screen, but I'm certain it was caused by the ambient temperature. If it's a pressure thing it could change based on temperature because the entire computer contracts and expands; for example, when it's cold, the PC card slot cover won't snap back into place by itself, and CDs won't eject from the drive completely. But the problems go away once it has run for a little while.

Guess it's a metal computer thing.
 
Yeah, you have to be nice.

I wasn't diplomatic enough when I tried to have my computer swapped at an Apple Store for the white spots, so eventually, they just didn't want to help me anymore.

I tried, but it's harder for some people than for others. And the management at Apple can't override the store manager's decision. Plus, there doesn't seem to be any definitive plan for these screen problems. It's all very subjective.
 
yeah, you do have to be real nice or you don't get jack. My reseller was excellent toward me when I stopped (?) acting like a dick. Thank goodness for patient people...
 
Originally posted by Paolo30
uh, I was talking to customer service... That's when things went downhill.
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:eek: Sorry, didn't realize that... and wow, really sorry to hear how it went with CS.
 
Yeah, thanks. Did you get sent a "Customer Care Survey" in the last couple of days? They made a terrible mistake by asking me what I thought about Apple Care....:D ...it was thesis material, man!
But back on topic, when I take my machine back in tomorrow I'm going to specify that they don't replace the screen, but replace the logic board instead. Might as well experiment with fixes rather than leave it to the Genius at the store.:rolleyes:
I'll keep you posted.
Sayonara!
 
Originally posted by Paolo30
Yeah, thanks. Did you get sent a "Customer Care Survey" in the last couple of days? They made a terrible mistake by asking me what I thought about Apple Care....:D ...it was thesis material, man!
But back on topic, when I take my machine back in tomorrow I'm going to specify that they don't replace the screen, but replace the logic board instead. Might as well experiment with fixes rather than leave it to the Genius at the store.:rolleyes:
I'll keep you posted.
Sayonara!
Click to expand...

I would suggest that since the screen seems to not be the actual problem that they replace the motherboard and any connection cables. I would avoid trying to tell them there job.
 
Uneven screen lighting on 15in PB G4 Al FW 800

My thanks to all who participate in the forum. Sharing your experiences makes me a better informed consumer.

My unit was shipped from Taiwan in mid November 2003.

I am replying to the member who wondered whether there were any satisified 15 inch Al customers.

I have seen the lower right dimness problem come and go on my PB. Right now, it's absolutely perfect, which is what happens most of the time. Sometimes when I start up, I see this problem. I have wondered whether it might be temperature related.

I was able to demonstrate the problem to an Apple Genius at the bar in the Apple Store at Tyson's Corner in McLean, VA. He logged it.

It has never been severe enough to go through the absence replacing the screen would entail.

Do you know whether authorized apple repair stations can make the repair in house? I have been recommended to use MCIS http://www.mcis.com/ here in Southern MD.

Please e-mail me any feedback you have on this approach (in house? While you wait? Racous laughter!) and MCIS.

Thank you
 
Re: Uneven screen lighting on 15in PB G4 Al FW 800

Originally posted by markfrautschi
My thanks to all who participate in the forum. Sharing your experiences makes me a better informed consumer.

My unit was shipped from Taiwan in mid November 2003.

I am replying to the member who wondered whether there were any satisified 15 inch Al customers.

I have seen the lower right dimness problem come and go on my PB. Right now, it's absolutely perfect, which is what happens most of the time. Sometimes when I start up, I see this problem. I have wondered whether it might be temperature related.

I was able to demonstrate the problem to an Apple Genius at the bar in the Apple Store at Tyson's Corner in McLean, VA. He logged it.

It has never been severe enough to go through the absence replacing the screen would entail.

Do you know whether authorized apple repair stations can make the repair in house? I have been recommended to use MCIS http://www.mcis.com/ here in Southern MD.

Please e-mail me any feedback you have on this approach (in house? While you wait? Racous laughter!) and MCIS.

Thank you
Click to expand...

The authorized repair places can in fact do the job but I think there must be some sort of Apple recommendation going on here because they want to send all the Al15 Powerbooks to Apple for repair even for something really really minor.
 
*expletive*

I got my computer back from "repair" (HAH! I use the term loosely) on Monday, 2004/01/05. It is now Wednesday, 2004/01/07, and the right half of my screen is just as dark as it was before. Once again, the problem developed in under an hour. I've had my machine back for about two and a half days, and it's already horrible.
 
Originally posted by Darkside
*expletive*

I got my computer back from "repair" (HAH! I use the term loosely) on Monday, 2004/01/05. It is now Wednesday, 2004/01/07, and the right half of my screen is just as dark as it was before. Once again, the problem developed in under an hour. I've had my machine back for about two and a half days, and it's already horrible.
Click to expand...

Well I think it is definitely time to pursue the lemon law option. Call the better business bureau they should be able to tell you what the law says in your state. In most states it's 3 repair attempts without correction.
 
Well now I'm baffled. After a full day of usage, the uneven illumination recurred. Right side drastically dimmer than left. Put it to sleep, same problem.

However, I left it sitting on my desk overnight. It went to sleep after almost an hour, and was alseep for 5-6 hours.

I woke it up this morning; still dimmer on the right half. Then it got gradually better as it warmed up, which it did before. But now, I can't see a difference at all, at any level of Brightness!

The difference between this time and last: I hardly ever put my PowerBook to sleep when it's just sitting on my desk. Normally, it stays up and running all night, but the display dims at 7.5 min and turns off at 15 min.

I'm not giving up, but I have to study this thing a bit longer before I send it into Apple. And I definately need to see the problem while I'm calling them. I have no doubt it will pop up again.
 
Originally posted by Darkside
I have no doubt it will pop up again.
Click to expand...
And it did. This afternoon and evening, the darkening wasn't as drastic as the first time, but it's still there.

This time, instead of the dimmest areas being the bottom right corner and the right edge, it's more defuse, just generally dark on the whole right side.
 
I called AppleCare today, and had a good experience. It was surprising... unfortunately, that makes it sad. But we'll focus on the good here.

The first Tech I spoke with was obviously running off his script. Fine, whatever; I have no problem with that until protocol becomes a hinderance.

I jumped through the hoops of shutting down, then resetting the PMU (Shift+Control+Option+Power for 2 sec) and PRAM (Option+Command+P+R; let the startup chime sound twice). Obviously, no effect.

Then he said that since I have third-party RAM, I'd have to remove it myself or at a service center. At which point I thanked him and ended the call. No further progress possible there.

I called back immediately, and got a Technician who actually seemed to care.

One thing Tech #1 said: after repair, machines are put through a 24 hour hardware test. I explained to Tech #2 that this machine was my livelyhood, and I was concerned I'd send it to be serviced just like before (maybe having just the screen replaced), only to have it returned to me still broken; even after their intensive testing. That got his attention.

He looked through the detailed notes from the repair, and mumbled (among many other things) something about "board". I asked him, "logic or inverter"? He seemed impress/appreciative that I knew what he was talking about. He said he doubted the logic board, and that it could be the inverter board. Also mentioned that they don't replace individual inverter boards; they'd replace "everything from the [screen] hinge up".

He got a Product Specialist in on the call. Described the problem to him: this recurrance gets worse with a longer duration of use. Because of this, the Specialist speculated that it could be the fault of some overworked video hardware... like the graphics chip... which he said is integrated with the logic board. *sigh*

He wrapped the call putting instructions to the repair techs in the case file to pay special attention to the video hardware during repair; then he issued a dispatch and shipped a box. I have greater expectations for this time through than I did for the first servicing. Hopefully Apple doesn't trample all over my trust again... But expectations and hope is where disapointment comes from. ;-)
 
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