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new G4 PB

elgruga said:
I cant see too many Apple fans buying a new powerbook with a G4 in it.
Only a G5 will persuade me to buy a new powerbook.
I have a 667 MHz TiBook, the second one I've had on which the right hand hinge has broken. I am going to get a new PB next week regardless. Both hinges broke while sitting in the BWI airport on a weekday morning waiting to go home. :)
 
tsk said:
I see Dell offering some for $700 (granted I can't figure out how to configure it for that cheap). Quite a few are around $800 also. Be nice to see the iBook 12" closer to that.

Chances are the 700 dollar machine lacks an optical drive, and is thick, ugly, hot, and low battery life. I'd gladly spend the extra for an iBook.
 
not to get off subject, but the topic of people waiting for RevB G5's did come up in this thread..

I REALLY don't agree with alot of the criticism that people have on RevA Apple products. I own the RevA 12" Powerbook, and a Sawtooth G4 which i consider to be the RevA G4 Powermac, since the Yikes! was more like a G3 B&W box with a G4 chip inside. In the past i've owned the RevA 233mhz iMac, and the RevA 400mhz G4 Titanium Powerbook. Every Macintosh computer i have owned has been a RevA. Other than all being RevA's, you know what they all have in common? No Problems whatsoever.
My 12" doesn't get hot, The titanium did not have hinge issues, the iMac had no video issues, etc. Some people have problems with RevA machine's, but i certainly would not single them out to being RevA problems in and of themselves. I think the "RevA Myth" is just as crippling as the "Megahertz Myth"

1 person gets on the forum and says they have an issue with their RevA, and 100 other people write RevA's off because of it. The iBook logic board issues, G4 Titanium (firewire 800) issues, Powerbook G3 Lombard overheating... all these issues were not in RevA's.

and worst of all, when people blame the fact that the G5 is a RevA right now, for why they don't own one. As if the G5 doesn't even exist, because they won't buy an Apple product until its RevB.

sorry, but someone has to stick up for the RevA's.... they are good machines and i have never had a single issue with a RevA Apple product.
 
Bear said:
At one point, Motorola was going to be introducing G4 class processors with a faster FSB. Hopefully the 1.5GHz G4 procs have one, even if it's only 20% faster than the current FSB.

Won't happen though. Any G4 variant they may use will still be limited to Motorola MAX bus that tops out at 167 mhz. This also goes for new G4 that can go upto 1.5 mhz and which I think will be used at least for some high end models this time around.

Regarding G5's in laptops, quite sure they won't use them just yet. Even if Apple had design and cooling sorted out,short supply of 0.90nm G5's would prevent launch at this point in time. They even couldn't manage to ship enough XServes (very low volume product) with it.
 
tsk said:
I see Dell offering some for $700 (granted I can't figure out how to configure it for that cheap). Quite a few are around $800 also. Be nice to see the iBook 12" closer to that.


Yea, I do see one for $799:

Inspiron 1150
Intel® Celeron® 2.40GHz
14.1 inch XGA
Microsoft® Windows® Home Edition
256MB Shared DDR SDRAM
20GB Hard Drive
24X CD/RW/DVD
Integrated Graphics
Starting at 7.17lbs

I like this image from Dell's site.
pentium_m_benchmark.gif
 
SuperChuck said:
And what about some out-of-left-field stuff? If they're going to be hawking G4 Powerbooks for the rest of the year (and I think they are) they are bound to come up with something that will make the PC crowd drool.
An optical audio out would be nice...
 
Bear said:
At one point, Motorola was going to be introducing G4 class processors with a faster FSB. Hopefully the 1.5GHz G4 procs have one, even if it's only 20% faster than the current FSB.

The most recent G4 (7447A) goes up to 1.5GHz, but it still has the same 167MHz bus. The only improvement it has is using less power, and its capable of "dynamic frequency switching", which makes it good for laptops but its still slow and outdated.

Hopefully the G5 will make its way into the PowerBook and iMac within the next 6 months.
 
I think new G4 PowerBooks are fine :)

I'm a 12" Rev A owner, and if a 15" 1.66 GHz G4 comes out, I'd gladly upgrade for double the speed..

This little PowerBook has been my best Mac yet (500 MHz iBook, 17" 1GHz iMac), and though Panther has a few issues, it's faster than Jaguar.

Bring on more G4s until I need a new desktop in late 2005 (G6? or dual 5 GHz G5?)..

Heck, at this point, I'd just be happy with price reductions on the current lineup - drop the 15" SuperDrive PB to $2299.. that'd make a big difference.
 
Some_Big_Spoon said:
I'd take a 1GHz G4 PB if it had a 500MHz FSB.. I'd take an 800 MHZ G4 if it had a 400MHz FSB.. and so on.. the processor can be a jet engine, but if the information that's computed can't get around, it's useless.. the FSB on the (current) G4 is appauling... a true nightmare and embarrasing, even by years back standards. Increase the board/mem specs and then we'll be talking.. Anything other than that is purely for marketing's sake.

Maybe Arn has specs on the (rumored) 1.5 GHz G4?? If so, let us know what they are, and same goes for anyone else.. and links please people.

Whats the chance they have bumped the bus up. Is it a really big deal, or could the 7447A have a better bus?
 
aswitcher said:
Whats the chance they have bumped the bus up. Is it a really big deal, or could the 7447A have a better bus?


No,no mate. They just can't, won't :D bump the bus up. 7447A is still 167 mhz. Go to Motorola web site and look for yourself.
 
Gyroscope said:
No,no mate. They just can't, won't :D bump the bus up. 7447A is still 167 mhz. Go to Motorola web site and look for yourself.


:( And there I was hoping they might have done something to encourage me to switch rather than wait for the G5s...

Its going to be a tough call. If they do good things like drop the price, bump up the screen resolution, better ram or anything else, then I am going to be torn...

G5PB is 5 months off I guess...can I wait...?
 
Dippo said:
Yea, I do see one for $799:

Inspiron 1150
Intel® Celeron® 2.40GHz
14.1 inch XGA
Microsoft® Windows® Home Edition
256MB Shared DDR SDRAM
20GB Hard Drive
24X CD/RW/DVD
Integrated Graphics
Starting at 7.17lbs

WTF do they mean by integrated graphics? Does that mean it has a monitor attached?!? Is it even possible to have a laptop to NOT have integrated graphics? So that's like saying, "Buy our laptop because it features a screen, keyboard, trackpad, power button, battery, and 2 whole mouse buttons!"
 
AppleInsider:

Meanwhile, it appears that Apple is on target to refresh its portable offerings during the first half of next week, as previously anticipated. Taiwanese distribution sources have indicated that a number of iBook and PowerBook configurations are currently in air-transit to US distributors.

Additionally, multiple sources have now confirmed a majority of the Apple product numbers listed for the new laptops in an earlier report. According to an unconfirmed tip, among the many configurations planned for release are a 12-inch 1GHz G4 iBook equipped with a 30 GB hard drive, 256 MB RAM, and a Combo Drive. The low-end 14-inch iBook model will reportedly pack a 1GHz processor, 40 GB hard drive, 256 MB RAM, and Combo Drive.

If the two entry level iBook configurations are indeed accurate, next week's product introductions will mark a milestone for Apple, as it will no longer be manufacturing a CPU unit with a clock-speed below 1GHz.
 
integrated graphics

stoid said:
WTF do they mean by integrated graphics? Does that mean it has a monitor attached?!? Is it even possible to have a laptop to NOT have integrated graphics? So that's like saying, "Buy our laptop because it features a screen, keyboard, trackpad, power button, battery, and 2 whole mouse buttons!"

Intergrated graphics means the graphics card is built on the motherboard, also known as on-board graphics. You can't ever update the graphics card in that machine. Thats why I hate onboard graphics.
 
stoid said:
So that's like saying, "Buy our laptop because it features a screen, keyboard, trackpad, power button, battery, and 2 whole mouse buttons!"

Actually if you're talking about an Apple machine, that would only be one mouse button. ;)
 
Features then..

G4 PB's won't be fast due to the FSB and board. the bottleneck makes processor gains minimal, which is why the G5 is nice (bus running at 1/2 proc speed) so the information can get around.

So, if they're limited, why not throw in features? HD screens, lighted keyboards across the line, 8X superdrives for all, 128MB vid chips, thinner, lighter.. they won't do this, of course, because it would blow their margins..

If they're going to give us lemons, as least make it lemonade... I know, flying pigs.. :rolleyes:
 
aswitcher said:
:( And there I was hoping they might have done something to encourage me to switch rather than wait for the G5s...

Hey, they make Mac OS X... What more do you want? ;)

Its going to be a tough call. If they do good things like drop the price, bump up the screen resolution, better ram or anything else, then I am going to be torn...

G5PB is 5 months off I guess...can I wait...?

Nothing from Apple says that there will be a G5 PowerBook in five months. I wouldn't base my decision off of that. Let me put it to you this way... I've used some nicely equipped PCs, some pretty high end stuff that my gamer buddies spend cash on.

I'll still take my eMac 700 and iBook G3 600 over any of that, for the simple reason that OS X works. I've either owned or had provided for me, in the last twenty years, some 23 macs. Two of those I've bought, the rest have been machines that my tech-loving family has used to keep all of us active and online. I've been helping maintain the networks, and then taking over the task, since I was about ten. In all that usage, I've had three hardware failures, one of which was just a settled CD drive that need a slight nudge to fix the tray (on an iMac). The other two? A hard drive failure on a nearly seven year old machine, and a dead PCI graphics card on an even older one.

Macs have always worked for me, with minimal maintenance and effort. I can't say the same thing about PCs. Yes, there are problems, and people seem to have issues that don't generally touch me at all... However, the reason you hear about them so much in this community is that they're not as common as on the other side, and the people talking about them tend to be able to aticulate the issue. When Apple has 3000 logic boards go bad out of a shipment of hundreds of thousands of iBooks, it's a blip, but it's one that gets noticed because of their usual quality standards.

If you want to switch, I'd actually recommend you get a lower-end, cheaper machine to try things out on first. There's no sense in a big expenditure that you aren't sure about.

I'm pretty confidend you'll like it over here, though. :D
 
Gesus said:
Intergrated graphics means the graphics card is built on the motherboard, also known as on-board graphics. You can't ever update the graphics card in that machine. Thats why I hate onboard graphics.

Actually, in this case, they're talking about Intel's integrated graphics chipset, which is an extremely low-end and RAM-less graphics chip. It uses your system memory (notice the "shared RAM"?) to do its calculations, not RAM on the GPU itself.

Lovely, isn't it? At least Apple uses real GPUs.
 
elgruga said:
I cant see too many Apple fans buying a new powerbook with a G4 in it.

Only a G5 will persuade me to buy a new powerbook.

the updated g4 should be more than enough for my computing needs, but i would certainly be happy with a g5
 
DGFan said:
Slightly faster CPUs.....new video cards....hopefully more RAM....bigger HD....these are good things.

I don't see why everyone is hung up on the G5 thing. Do you really need more than 4GB RAM on your laptop? Do you even have that many slots? Are you really going to use 64 bits? Remember folks, the G5s aren't significantly faster clock-for-clock than the G4s. Maybe years down the road when compilers get *really* optimized and everyone starts releasing software specifically optimized for the G5 that will change. But today, it simply doesn't matter that much. Oh yeah, but to paraphrase Nigel Tufnel, "it's one faster isn't it?". Ok, whatever :rolleyes:

hey, it's my old friend, the voice of reason! ;)

All of you who "won't buy a laptop until it's a G5" - do you even know why you want a G5? Or what you will do with it that you couldn't do with a G4? Or what the actual speed difference between a 1.5 Ghz G4 and a 1.5 Ghz G5 would be?

The dual 2.0 Ghz G5 is clocked ~41% faster than the dual 1.42 Ghz G4. So if the two chips (G4 and G5) were equal, the dual 2.0 G5 should outperform the top-end G4 by 41% per test. Look here ; it's barefeats' tests of those two computers compared. The G5 wins by between 25% and 117%, depending on test. The average G5 advantage over 10 tests is 66.1% over the G4. But remember, we would expect a 41% advantage based on clock speed alone!

So yes, the G5 is better clock for clock, but the difference is hardly night and day, as some people here seem to think. IMHO, a lot of people are being lured by the "cutting edge" technology and not stopping to think about either how much better that technology really is, or what they would actually do with it.

This message board stuff fuels itself. Someone says "the G4 is outdated and slow; we need G5s in powerbooks." Someone else repeats it, because they "heard it somewhere." It gets said over and over until it becomes accepted truth. Stop and think about what the differences really are, and what you really need.
 
I think the reailty people have to face, like it or not, is that G5 PowerBooks are not coming for a while. If PowerBook updates are in fact looming, they will no doubt be G4 speed bumps to 1.5 GHz or some such variant. And yes, this willl tick a lot of people off, but unfortunately, I think this is the way things will be - there are many signs. First of all, the latest hardware update was NOT for the PowerMacs, NOT for the PowerBooks and NOT for a G5 iMac, it was for the eMac, and just a relatively small upgrade of its G4 (not that anyone was expecting a G5 eMac!) Also, minor updates were seen in the iMac line back in December, (or whenever it was), with the 20-inch iMac. Apple has not released any updates since then, so the PowerBooks will probably follow the same pattern - a minor G4 update now, and then no G5 updates for quite a while. Heck, the iMac might get another G4 boost as well, although I really hope not - I'm itching to see a new G5 iMac form factor! Not that I dislike the current one, but I can only imagine how cool the G5 iMacs will look! :cool:

So anyway, I'm thinking iBook and PowerBook updates will be minor G4 speed boosts, with some minor hardware upgrades as well. Apple seems to be having some delays/difficulties with the next batch of faster G5s, so it will be all they can manage to get the Rev B PMs out in the near future, let alone anything else with G5s. Like it or not.
 
Some_Big_Spoon said:
So, if they're limited, why not throw in features? HD screens, lighted keyboards across the line, 8X superdrives for all, 128MB vid chips, thinner, lighter.. they won't do this, of course, because it would blow their margins..

If they're going to give us lemons, as least make it lemonade... I know, flying pigs.. :rolleyes:

If they do push for some serious nice additions then I am going to be sweating about what to do... Size/Weight is fine, but VRAM and Screen Resolution ups would push me right to the edge...
 
QCassidy352 said:
hey, it's my old friend, the voice of reason! ;)

All of you who "won't buy a laptop until it's a G5" - do you even know why you want a G5? Or what you will do with it that you couldn't do with a G4? Or what the actual speed difference between a 1.5 Ghz G4 and a 1.5 Ghz G5 would be?

The dual 2.0 Ghz G5 is clocked ~41% faster than the dual 1.42 Ghz G4. So if the two chips (G4 and G5) were equal, the dual 2.0 G5 should outperform the top-end G4 by 41% per test. Look here ; it's barefeats' tests of those two computers compared. The G5 wins by between 25% and 117%, depending on test. The average G5 advantage over 10 tests is 66.1% over the G4. But remember, we would expect a 41% advantage based on clock speed alone!

So yes, the G5 is better clock for clock, but the difference is hardly night and day, as some people here seem to think. IMHO, a lot of people are being lured by the "cutting edge" technology and not stopping to think about either how much better that technology really is, or what they would actually do with it.

This message board stuff fuels itself. Someone says "the G4 is outdated and slow; we need G5s in powerbooks." Someone else repeats it, because they "heard it somewhere." It gets said over and over until it becomes accepted truth. Stop and think about what the differences really are, and what you really need.

This is very true, I've seen it time and time again. Many people just want G5s because they are the latest and greatest chip, and they just want to be "the fastest". This is the attitude many people take, with a complete disregard for what they actually need. I'm sure there are individuals out there who could benefit from a G5 PowerBook, but really, people have to ask themselves "what do I need a G5 for that a G4 can't do?", "do I need a G5 in the first place?", "why do I want a G5?" and "do I understand the technological advantages and actual speed benefits, etc. of having a G5 over a G4?" (i.e. what would I gain form having a G5 over a G4 and is it substantially noticeable?)
 
Straight from the mouth of Motorola...

Visit the Motorola Press Release

This release is OLD (from February) but it contains a few details that support claims of earlier posts. Most importantly, that speeds will hit 1.5 Ghz and above:

"This high-performance, power-efficient 32-bit RISC device, operating in excess of 1.4GHz, is the latest and fastest member of the MPC74xx PowerPC processor family."

Note "in excess of..." And that was in February. Another interesting thing to note:

"MPC7447A processors are pin-for-pin compatible with Motorola’s MPC7445 and MPC7447 processors. This pin-compatible migration path helps customers reduce their development costs, accelerates time to market, and ensures software compatibility."

This may suggest little or no form-factor change. If they're sinking a ton of cash in developing a G5 Powerbook, they're probably not going to dish out too much re-vamping the old stuff. Especially if all they have to do is switch them out, pin-for-pin.

I don't think this processor is being used for anything at the moment, and is therefore the most likely candidate to be found in Sunday's Powerbooks.
 
Some_Big_Spoon said:
G4 PB's won't be fast due to the FSB and board. the bottleneck makes processor gains minimal, which is why the G5 is nice (bus running at 1/2 proc speed) so the information can get around.

So, if they're limited, why not throw in features? HD screens, lighted keyboards across the line, 8X superdrives for all, 128MB vid chips, thinner, lighter.. they won't do this, of course, because it would blow their margins..

If they're going to give us lemons, as least make it lemonade... I know, flying pigs.. :rolleyes:

Indeed. Great disparity between G4 and G5 FSB is really depressing. For some regular daily tasks don't matter much, but considering how many people would (want to) use PowerBook for some serious number crunching (video,audio) this disparity becomes major issue. I quite frankly think that Apple isn't quite out of woods yet regarding their CPU woes. I for once,thought that when G5's were released everything would change instanly. But as it turned out to be,this is long and painful process of transition.
 
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