PowerBook and iBook Confirmation?

[Mord]

No,no mate. They just can't, won't bump the bus up. 7447A is still 167 mhz. Go to Motorola web site and look for yourself.

motorola's website lies remember when it said g4' top out at 1 ghz but macs went faster it means apple is buying all the good ones so it cant advitise them

 

[pigwin32]

There are a couple of good reasons for wanting the G5 PB, the resale price on G4 PB's is going to tank and at the rate tech gets old it's important to get the fastest available processor. Plus the G5 will have to come in new packaging, I can't see Apple just slapping the G5 into the existing AlBook. When a large part of Apple's appeal is in the product design I want to own the new one (as opposed to the sorry state of desirability in the PC world).

For people who are more interested in looking under the hood there are other good reasons to want the G5 PB. Right now the G4 is old and hamstrung by a slow bus, and the screen on the PB is well behind the screens available on PC laptops. For a company that has generally pushed out the boundaries of what is possible and introduced new tech to a mass market, the existing PB's are a bit common.

I would be thrilled to see new G5 PB's this rev but it just doesn't sound like it's going to happen. I don't believe the issues are insurmountable for Apple. The problems with IBM's 90nm chips notwithstanding the process will always produce chips rated for lower speeds. The way I understand it the chips are tested for speed and the high-speed ones end up in the high-spec boxen with the lower speed ones ending up in the likes of the PB's. And a 90nm 1.6Ghz G5 with its faster bus is a better option than a 1.6Ghz G4 with a 167Mhz FSB. Plus as previously pointed out by many, heat isn't necessarily the major issue others think it is.

Having said all that, if Apple ups the screen res by a reasonable amount I am going to be sorely tempted by a 1Ghz jump in processor speed over my existing TiBook, a larger hard drive, a superdrive, and built-in wireless and bluetooth. That will make my ssh terminal sessions just fly

 

[rdowns]

hey, it's my old friend, the voice of reason!

All of you who "won't buy a laptop until it's a G5" - do you even know why you want a G5? Or what you will do with it that you couldn't do with a G4? Or what the actual speed difference between a 1.5 Ghz G4 and a 1.5 Ghz G5 would be?

The dual 2.0 Ghz G5 is clocked ~41% faster than the dual 1.42 Ghz G4. So if the two chips (G4 and G5) were equal, the dual 2.0 G5 should outperform the top-end G4 by 41% per test. Look here ; it's barefeats' tests of those two computers compared. The G5 wins by between 25% and 117%, depending on test. The average G5 advantage over 10 tests is 66.1% over the G4. But remember, we would expect a 41% advantage based on clock speed alone!

So yes, the G5 is better clock for clock, but the difference is hardly night and day, as some people here seem to think. IMHO, a lot of people are being lured by the "cutting edge" technology and not stopping to think about either how much better that technology really is, or what they would actually do with it.

This message board stuff fuels itself. Someone says "the G4 is outdated and slow; we need G5s in powerbooks." Someone else repeats it, because they "heard it somewhere." It gets said over and over until it becomes accepted truth. Stop and think about what the differences really are, and what you really need.

Sure, many just repeat the mantra they hear on this forum and elsewhere but (while not in the market for a PB, I want an iMac) I have what I believe are sound reasons for wanting a G5 even though a G4 can do what I need it to do.

They are the future and I expect my next Mac to last 5 years unless I decide to upgrade for other reasons. Apple will in the next couple/few years release a 64 bit OS, I'd like to be able to run it without having to go out and buy a new Mac. At this point, I'd bet the next version of OS X will be the last to support G3s (and I own 2 of them). The one after that will probably be the last for the G4s. At one update per year, a G4 makes no sense for me.

If I'm spending a couple/few thousand bucks on a new computer, it should be state of the art technology. The G4 is simply not that. Don't kid yourself, if Apple could drop that puppy tomorrow for all G5s, they'd do it in a heartbeat. Would simplify their marketing and manufacturing to name but 2 advantages. Alas, that is not the Apple way. They have to cripple models to protect others and play marketing games rather than let the market decide. I say, put faster processors in all models and diffrentiate them with other features. The , let's cripple the iMac so we can force people to buy PMs doesn't work. Heaven forbid the "pro" users get upset because a "consumer" model is close in performance.


Jobs got up on stage last year and told the world that the G5 was the best; why should he offer me anything less, especially at the prices Apple charges?

While we hardly know what really is going on at Apple, it seems that their years of R&D with IBM on the G5 is behind where I believe they should be. I understand that marketing plays a role here but they have milked the G4 for all it's worth in their PB and iMac lines. What they just did with the eMac update was what we should have seen done to the PBs and iMacs months ago.

/rant off

 

[blogo]

Yea, I do see one for $799:

Inspiron 1150
Intel® Celeron® 2.40GHz
14.1 inch XGA
Microsoft® Windows® Home Edition
256MB Shared DDR SDRAM
20GB Hard Drive
24X CD/RW/DVD
Integrated Graphics
Starting at 7.17lbs

I like this image from Dell's site.

Whats with that image there, the machine uses a celeron CPU and i dont see that one in that little benchmark of those, and from what I know celerons are the #1 piece-of-crap CPU's on the market right now.

 

[wizard]

Well that is just not the case, it is pretty obvious that the G4 IS NOT ENOUGH for our needs. The problem is it is the only game in town right now for the portable market. I say that while holding out hope that the G5 or a derivative does end up in a portable with the next releases.

There are several good reasons to want a G5 based laptop one of which is resistance to obsolesence. Do not under some of the sound reasons for wanting a much faster laptop. Technology changes rather rapidly so this is a number one concern.

As to the 1.5 GHz G4, yes for many people it will do an excellent job but that does not mean that there are not people whom could make use of more performance. The problem with any G4 based machine is software development, as more "g5" based machines are targetted for new software the greater the likely hood that the G4 based machine will not perform well. So by buying a G4 based machine you are somewhat limited in future utility.

Dave

Several people have pointed out the fact, and backed it up with proper debate and arguement, that a 1.5 G4 is more than enough for our needs - and this G5 thread is based on unreasoned hype.

I for example, ( 1.25 Al book ), am not a RoadWarrior Hollywood film editor / director / producer trying to edit and assemble Starwars 1 for release this weekend ( which is of course the image all advertisers like to portay of anyone with a laptop - you know the image --- young Brad Pit lookalike, with three days of oh-so-hunky stubble, comes in of the dusty jungle/desert road - its hot out there and he's obviously been on the road for weeks. From his well worn rucksack, he pulls out a gleaming, sleek, powerful laptop and tosses it onto the well worn bed. If he doesn't tie up the report ( with embedded feature length/quality movie he's done himself ) within the hour, then the whole trans-continental multi cultural billion dollar Patagonian Highway Electro Dam Inner Urban Regeneration Poverty Elimination Project will be lost ----- and the kids will go hungry ( he's only doing it for them ).

That or a super suited young business ******** in the ' Corporate Boardroom ' scene - but I wont go into this one!!

Reality is that we just want to out-brag our mates most of the time, with the remaining time being used to frag opponents in Unreal Tournement - Killing Spree.

So in summary -- there is not a single good reason why I, or most powerbook users here NEED a G5 laptop............













..........but I sure do WANT one, he he he

 

[SiliconAddict]

Be ready to wait another year or more...

Powerbooks aren't going to get G5s until well after the PowerMacs are updated...

I've been bookmarking all of these BS comments that are all based on zero facts. So if, more like when, Apple releases a G5 PowerBook before 2nd quarter of next year I can repost these comments.
FACT: Neither you nor anyone else out of Apple's labs know when a G5 PowerBook will show up. It very well could be that Apple is done with development and they are simply waiting for a large enough quantity of 90nm G5's to show up before shipping. Who knows.
If nothing else I'll lay cash Jobs is going to demo a G5 PowerBook at the WWDC this year with a shipping date of 3rd\4th quarter.

 

[gopher]

Maybe Apple will surprise with a PowerBook G5 somehow. Apple surprised us with the G5 and 12" & 17" PowerBooks, maybe they will surprise us again... Or maybe Steve will announce some crap, and no one will clap, like the somewhat embarassing iPod mini price announcement moment. Apple does surprise, though, maybe this time's not the time? But I sure hope it is.

There has been no G5 in the Powerbook line yet. You make it sound like it already happened.

 

[SiliconAddict]

So in summary -- there is not a single good reason why I, or most powerbook users here NEED a G5 laptop............
..........but I sure do WANT one, he he he

Hey J. Remember that comment when Apple releases a version of OS X further optimized for the G5 in the, probably not to distant, future.
I don't want to hear anyone bitching about how apple screwed them over or how their G4's are crap. No complaining OK?

 

[gopher]

There are a couple of good reasons for wanting the G5 PB, the resale price on G4 PB's is going to tank and at the rate tech gets old it's important to get the fastest available processor. Plus the G5 will have to come in new packaging, I can't see Apple just slapping the G5 into the existing AlBook. When a large part of Apple's appeal is in the product design I want to own the new one (as opposed to the sorry state of desirability in the PC world).

For people who are more interested in looking under the hood there are other good reasons to want the G5 PB. Right now the G4 is old and hamstrung by a slow bus, and the screen on the PB is well behind the screens available on PC laptops. For a company that has generally pushed out the boundaries of what is possible and introduced new tech to a mass market, the existing PB's are a bit common.

I would be thrilled to see new G5 PB's this rev but it just doesn't sound like it's going to happen. I don't believe the issues are insurmountable for Apple. The problems with IBM's 90nm chips notwithstanding the process will always produce chips rated for lower speeds. The way I understand it the chips are tested for speed and the high-speed ones end up in the high-spec boxen with the lower speed ones ending up in the likes of the PB's. And a 90nm 1.6Ghz G5 with its faster bus is a better option than a 1.6Ghz G4 with a 167Mhz FSB. Plus as previously pointed out by many, heat isn't necessarily the major issue others think it is.

Having said all that, if Apple ups the screen res by a reasonable amount I am going to be sorely tempted by a 1Ghz jump in processor speed over my existing TiBook, a larger hard drive, a superdrive, and built-in wireless and bluetooth. That will make my ssh terminal sessions just fly

Screen resolution isn't everything. I've seen the higher screen resolution on the Dells, and it is so bad that you can't read anything. If you think the blurry fonts problem is a problem on Mac OS X, you'll despise having to see it at a higher resolution. With more pixels trying to cram blurred text together it will become even more blurrier. Apple found a fine balance in the pixel density of the 17" Powerbook.

 

[Tomaz]

Screen resolution isn't everything. I've seen the higher screen resolution on the Dells, and it is so bad that you can't read anything. If you think the blurry fonts problem is a problem on Mac OS X, you'll despise having to see it at a higher resolution. With more pixels trying to cram blurred text together it will become even more blurrier. Apple found a fine balance in the pixel density of the 17" Powerbook.

Completely true! I have aDell with 15" screen and 1600x1400, and it's terrible. Unreadably small at that resolution and way too blurry to be acceptable in any lower res! I actually hope Apple doesn't change screen res in the new PBs .

 

[jjmaximum]

Time on Sunday

Does anyone know what time on Sunday Apple is presenting at the conference and also, how we can find out what they said?

Two side notes:

As of Saturday morning the Apple Refurb site is stocked full of everything but G5s

How often does Apple update their top 10 sales...it hasn't changed in weeks.

 

[marmotte]

I would

I cant see too many Apple fans buying a new powerbook with a G4 in it.

Only a G5 will persuade me to buy a new powerbook.

I need a Powerbook now, not in 6 months. I'd rather get a new faster G4 right now, than a first generation G5, with all its potential unknown problems later.

So if Apple updates his laptops next week, I will serioulsy consider buying one.

MM

 

[klaus]

Thinksecret

Well, thinksecret also confirms updates are coming on Monday..

So, the wait is over, rumors can begin about G5 powerbooks and powermacs again

Keep it up Apple!

 

[Ambrose Chapel]

additional confirmation

think secret chimes in

The company will unveil new PowerBook and iBook models next week, reliable sources said, though exact specifications and feature sets are unclear.

However, sources firmly contended that Apple plans to announce the new laptops on Monday. Despite varying announcement dates spreading across the web, sources confirmed the Monday, April 19 date.

http://www.thinksecret.com/news/aprillaptops.html

 

[Zaty]

think secret chimes in



http://www.thinksecret.com/news/aprillaptops.html

Finally, the wait is over. I just wonder why there is no information on the specs. Given that the release is only two days away, it's amazing that Apple can still keep the specs secret. Are they going to surprise the way they did with the eMac update? I can't wait to find out.

Edit: I've just found the status of the PBs on the buyer's guide has been changed to "Don't buy updates soon"!

 

[KLFloyd]

To Buy Or Not To Buy...

A sub $1000 1Ghz 12" iBook...

I told myself I was going to retire my 3-year-old 500mhz PowerBook G4 when such a model was released. Yet I find I'm not *quite* ready to get rid of my beloved Titanium.

Do I upgrade now, or do I wait another 6 months? Ah that is the question...

What's Next?

 

[tsk]

Chances are the 700 dollar machine lacks an optical drive, and is thick, ugly, hot, and low battery life. I'd gladly spend the extra for an iBook.

Probably thicker, but I think with a CD drive. That wasn't the point though. Just that PC laptops can be had for much cheaper. I know I've seen 800 laptops at Best Buy and such and I don't think they were stripped down at all (256MB/CDRW).

 

[aswitcher]

There has been some speculation that an option on the powerbooks will be for a 128MEG VRAM, possibly the Mobility Radeon 9700.

http://www.powerpage.org/cgi-bin/WebObjects/powerpage.woa/wa/story?newsID=11921

What am I really going to get out of this card on a single G4 likely running 1.42 to 1.5 GHz?
Is this overkill for a non-dual/non-G5 machine?

EDIT
I did some research. Can't say I am convinced it would be worth the extra money http://www6.tomshardware.com/mobile/20040203/radeon_9700-14.html

 

[AidenShaw]

Whats with that image there, the machine uses a celeron CPU and i dont see that one in that little benchmark of those, and from what I know celerons are the #1 piece-of-crap CPU's on the market right now.

Celeron's are really Pentium 4 chips with 400MHz bus (3 times faster than the PB, right?) and a 128 KiB L2 cache.

They're also available retail, quantity one (1), for $77. That's why you see the low prices. Not everyone wants to pay for a speed demon....


The image is probably from a different part of the Dell site - I've seen it on the pages with Centrino laptops.

 

[Chillout]

Newbie 911

Hi Everybody,

I am a TOTAL newbie. I am currently a PC user who cannot take Windows any more. I have decided to get an Apple PowerBook and "start my life fresh". I know that's a bit dramatic, but that's what it feels like. Windows 98 crashes EVERY DAY on me at work, and I can't handle having to deal with it at home too. I've reformatted so many times, and fixed so many glitches, bugs and problems, I could literally be tech support at a Fortune 500 company. And I want to get off Windows and onto a better system. I HEAR Apple is better, and I pray to God everybody is telling the truth and not just trying to "sell me".

So here's my situation: Should I wait and buy a G5 or should I get the new PowerBooks that are supposedly coming out next week? I'm getting anxious to "switch", but if you guys tell me that the difference is going to be huge, AND that the difference will matter to me, then I'll wait. Here's what I want to do on my mac: a bit of photo editing in Photoshop Elements or the Gimp (which I use on Windows and is actually pretty good for what I do); web surfing, email, typing essays on boring stuff, iTunes, and GarageBand (I'm an amateur guitar player). GarageBand and iTunes comes free with every Mac now, right? Every couple days, my dad wants me to check his stocks for him on a Java website, http://www.prophet.net/analyze/javacharts.jsp, so Java sites have to work well too. If my Mac works well for me, my dad said he would dump Windows ME and buy a Mac, too. Could somebody check that Java site for me? Apple has their own Java version, I hear it's good, but I don't know without trying it. Is it as slow as Windows' version?

I'd be buying a 15" PB with a Gig of RAM. Is the RAM soldered onto the Motherboard? I know some laptops come with a minimum amount soldered on. If I need more for GarageBand or if my dad's Java site is as slow as it is on Windows, I have a friend who works at a distributor-type place who says he can get me good quality Apple RAM cheaper than Apple. Should I get the minimum RAM from Apple and have my friend sell me the Gig RAM stick?

Currently at home I'm running a dual Pentium 400 with 256 RAM and Windows 2000. How will the PowerBook compare speedwise with this computer? I find my PC okay for speed with what I do, I'm hoping the PowerBook will be faster, but I really have no idea. I've looked all over, and I found a million Mac vs. Mac speed tests, but not many Mac vs. PC tests for the G4 PB. So I have no clue what I'm getting myself into.

I hope somebody reads this and has some good advice, because I originally thought it would be a good idea to wait for the second G5 PowerBook, but I don't think I can wait that long -- unless there's a good reason. So now I'm ready to crack and I'm totally confused. You guys know what I want to do with this machine: do I need more power? Are you satisfied with the OS performance? Am I missing anything?

Help!

 

[seelab]

If I'm spending a couple/few thousand bucks on a new computer, it should be state of the art technology. The G4 is simply not that.

I agree. I'm not gonna spend my money on another G4 @ 1,5 Ghz.
8 months for just a 170 Mhz upgrade ? Sorry Apple but i'm not interested.

 

[mklos]

So I read somewhere, that seemed to be a legitimate source, that Microsoft will put three G5s in the next xbox.

So your telling me apple can't figure out to put one in the powerbook?

--
IBM Thinkpad 600e PII 366
Smok'in

An Xbox is able to have huge cooling fans in them if needed. Its not like the Xbox is pressed for space like the PowerBook. I think the main issue with a G5 in a PowerBook would be massive heat. Look at the heat sinks on the PowerMac G5, they're as tall as the G5 is wide. So in other words its about 8 inches wide, so the heat sinks are 8 inches high. That kinda tells me that its not easy cooling these puppies. And until they find out a reliable way to do that then you won't see any G5 based PowerBooks. The G5 also uses a lot of power and so IBM would need to build a scaled down version (one that doesn't use as much power) so that it wouldn't suck the life out of the battery.

A 250MHz is a noticeable jump in speed. Apple did it with the flat panel iMacs going from 1 GHz to 1.25 GHz. If it has a faster FSB then you also see a speed increase there too. Rumored reports were saying the that this new G4 chip would support a 200 MHz FSB. Its not much but its better than nothing!

 

[mklos]

Hi Everybody,

I am a TOTAL newbie. I am currently a PC user who cannot take Windows any more. I have decided to get an Apple PowerBook and "start my life fresh". I know that's a bit dramatic, but that's what it feels like. Windows 98 crashes EVERY DAY on me at work, and I can't handle having to deal with it at home too. I've reformatted so many times, and fixed so many glitches, bugs and problems, I could literally be tech support at a Fortune 500 company. And I want to get off Windows and onto a better system. I HEAR Apple is better, and I pray to God everybody is telling the truth and not just trying to "sell me".

So here's my situation: Should I wait and buy a G5 or should I get the new PowerBooks that are supposedly coming out next week? I'm getting anxious to "switch", but if you guys tell me that the difference is going to be huge, AND that the difference will matter to me, then I'll wait. Here's what I want to do on my mac: a bit of photo editing in Photoshop Elements or the Gimp (which I use on Windows and is actually pretty good for what I do); web surfing, email, typing essays on boring stuff, iTunes, and GarageBand (I'm an amateur guitar player). GarageBand and iTunes comes free with every Mac now, right? Every couple days, my dad wants me to check his stocks for him on a Java website, http://www.prophet.net/analyze/javacharts.jsp, so Java sites have to work well too. If my Mac works well for me, my dad said he would dump Windows ME and buy a Mac, too. Could somebody check that Java site for me? Apple has their own Java version, I hear it's good, but I don't know without trying it. Is it as slow as Windows' version?

I'd be buying a 15" PB with a Gig of RAM. Is the RAM soldered onto the Motherboard? I know some laptops come with a minimum amount soldered on. If I need more for GarageBand or if my dad's Java site is as slow as it is on Windows, I have a friend who works at a distributor-type place who says he can get me good quality Apple RAM cheaper than Apple. Should I get the minimum RAM from Apple and have my friend sell me the Gig RAM stick?

Currently at home I'm running a dual Pentium 400 with 256 RAM and Windows 2000. How will the PowerBook compare speedwise with this computer? I find my PC okay for speed with what I do, I'm hoping the PowerBook will be faster, but I really have no idea. I've looked all over, and I found a million Mac vs. Mac speed tests, but not many Mac vs. PC tests for the G4 PB. So I have no clue what I'm getting myself into.

I hope somebody reads this and has some good advice, because I originally thought it would be a good idea to wait for the second G5 PowerBook, but I don't think I can wait that long -- unless there's a good reason. So now I'm ready to crack and I'm totally confused. You guys know what I want to do with this machine: do I need more power? Are you satisfied with the OS performance? Am I missing anything?

Help!

For what you want to do with your PowerBook, even the current line up would be fine for you. Especially if you stick 1 GB of RAM in it. Make sure those RAM sticks are SODIMMs. All of Apple's laptops take SODIMMs. No there is no RAM soldered on to the logicboard (aka motherboard) in a PowerBook. Everything it totally removable. The 15, and 17" PowerBooks have 2 RAM slots in them and 1 or both of them may be used when you buy your PowerBook. I think the SuperDrive model comes with 512MB of RAM and that may be with 2 x 256MB SODIMMS or with 1 X 512MB SODIMMs. If you order this on the Apple website then you can have them put just (1) 512MB SODIMM in it for a small amount more, but if your going to put a 1 GB SODIMM in it then you may just want to not worry about that. Having 1.25 GB of RAM is pretty good.

Mac vs. PC tests are hard because the OS operates different, uses different instructions, etc... than a PPC processor that are in Macs. Mac OS X is a very efficient OS and runs pretty well on just about any G3, G4, and G5 based Mac. I have OS X running on my mom's 233 MHz G3 iMac (Rev. A) with 256MB of RAM and it runs pretty darn good. I have a 1 GHz Flat Panel iMac and it runs beautifully. Boot times are in the 20 to 25 second range, you get about 1, maybe 2 bounces of a dock icon when you click on it to launch. Everything is quick on mine. So you should see a good difference in power. I have a 450 MHz single processor IBM PC and I notice a huge difference between my 1 GHz iMac and my 450 MHz PC. So you should too.

I don't see any G5 based PowerBooks coming out anytime soon. I would though wait and see if they are in fact going to be updated in the near future. Give it a few weeks if not updated next week. Keep in mind also that Apple VERY rarely ships a product when they say they are going to. If they do introduce new PowerBooks (G4, or G5), they probably won't ship them until sometime next month no matter what they say unless its announced that they are available that same day they are introduced.

Go ahead and make the switch. Your Java site seems to be working. Near the bottom of the page I can switch companies by putting in the different letter combinations (i.e. aapl for Apple Computer) and it goes right in nice and fast.

BTW...Yes iLife '04 comes with all new Macs today, Garageband included!

 

[tsk]

I think the main issue with a G5 in a PowerBook would be massive heat. Look at the heat sinks on the PowerMac G5, they're as tall as the G5 is wide. So in other words its about 8 inches wide, so the heat sinks are 8 inches high. That kinda tells me that its not easy cooling these puppies.

The 90nm G5 CPU's draw half the power of the G4 (I am quoting that figure without looking it up so maybe it's off a bit).

So, I'm kinda getting sick of people claiming that heat is the issue. If the G5 draws half the power, it emits half the heat.

This is just conservation of energy:

Power is Energy per unit time
Energy in = Energy out basically
Hence about half the power is going to be half the heat

Now, granted the bus may be faster, which will give off more heat, but the CPU will not be killing the heat of the system.

I also am aware that the G4 has some power saving capabilities, I'm just trying to dispell this notion that the G5 puts out twice the heat.

 

[elo]

Steve said there would be a G5PB by the end of 2004. I know there are problems with the G5 but its only April and Apple have had prototypes to work with for more than 6 months from what other posters are saying. We know the G5 90nm is cheaper, cooler and low power - which makes me think its perfect for a powerbook. What really compelling evidence do you have that their will be no G5 this year?

Sorry, aswitcher, I can't disclose evidence here. One of the pitfalls of reading rumor sites, I suppose. Nevertheless, I can flatly assure you that there will be no G5 PowerBook in 2004. (But, as I indicated earlier, this is not seen as a problem. While we all get hung up on the respective chips' brand names, there is plenty of cutting-edge technology in the G4 chip and upcoming G4 PowerBook revisions, should there be such a thing, will be extremely competitive with anything else on the market.)

To Chillout: You might want to make a purchase in the next couple of weeks. I just tried you site in Camino and it works beautifully. Speed wise, you'll be more than satisfied - just make sure your new machine has at least as much memory as your old one. (In fact, I would suggest doubling it, but I think that's always good advice when replacing a computer that's at least a couple of years old.)

elo