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Discussion in 'PowerPC Macs' started by vb7200, May 10, 2015.
I just bought a PowerBook G4 Aluminum 15 inch on eBay with no OS for $60. Will Leopard run on it?
All Macs G4s with a G4 processor are capable of running Leopard. As far as I know, all Aluminum ones officially support it provided that they have enough RAM(I think the installer checks for 512mb, although have never tried it on a computer with less than that).
As long as you have 512mb or more RAM, pop a Leopard disk in and you should have no issues.
Yes it will, I'd suggest you max out the memory for the best experience possible.
The guy said he wasn't sure on the specs, but I'm pretty sure 512 is the base amount anyway so that shouldn't be a problem then. I was worried that maybe 512 wasn't enough and I'd have to buy two 1 gigabyte sticks (I'm planning on doing that, anyway)
While they can certainly be made run Leopard using XPostFacto, Power Mac G4's from the original PCI model up until the first single processor line of Quicksilvers, only officially supported up to Max OS X 10.4.11. That's about 7 models in total, including the Cube and the DA.
Leopard loves RAM, and the more the merrier(although I expect eyeyougren to pop in here and show his Sawtooth running Leopard with an obscenely small amount of RAM ).
For normal day-to-day desktop use I would not want any less than 1gb. I have several Titanium Powerbooks running Leopard with this amount of RAM(the max for TiBooks) as well as a couple of DA/Quicksilvers with 1.5gb.
Depending on which model Powerbook you bought, I will offer a caution that some 15" AlBooks have "issues" with one of the RAM slots on the logic board. If your computer is so affected, you will not be able to use any more than 1gb of RAM. As far as I know, the last generation 1.67ghz "DLSD" PB(the only 15" Al model I've owned) is immune from this problem.
was listed as this Apple PowerBook G4 Aluminum 15.2" Laptop - A1095 BAAA
Even the Yikes!?
On G4s with AGP graphics(all TiBooks use AGP-based graphics) Leopard is really just a plug and play installation. The 867mhz requirement is somewhat arbitrary. There's a pre-made utility called Leopard Assist that will "trick" the installer into thinking that the computer is faster for long enough to get the installer run. You can also install via Target Disk mode from a supported computer, clone a good Leopard install from another computer(either via TDM or transplanting the drive) or install on a hard drive in a supported computer and transplant.
I have Leopard running on everything from a 400mhz Sawtooth up to a dual 800ghz Quicksilver, including several 533mhz Digital Audios and all of my Cubes(450mhz, factory 500mhz, and upgraded 800mhz). In all honesty, the dual 800 runs it better than my 867mhz TiBook. The biggest challenge on many of these computers is that the stock graphics card performs poorly under Leopard, although at least in a tower it's not a big deal to upgrade.
The only ones that are really challenging are those that don't have AGP graphics, which require tinkering around with kexts. I have both a B&W G3 with a G4 upgrade and a Yikes! G4(basically a B&W without an ADB port and a G4 processor installed) that I'm going to get around to one of these days. I also have an 8600 with a G4 upgrade that is going to get a Leopard install, although not until after I've gone to OWC and dropped $100 on RAM.
With some work, yes. Leopard Assist isn't enough, but it can be done.
By "any Mac with a G4" I'm also extending it to pre-G4 Macs with a G4 upgrade(even going back to OWR systems). They require varying amounts of work, as the platform drivers are not built in and need to be manually installed, but it can be done. The Yikes! is more or less a B&W with a G4 processor(and no ADB), so does require some additional work.
Intell has an 8600 on which he has installed Leopard. I'm being a copycat and doing the same thing
Max the ram. Turn off the eye candy. Optimize the system.
There are several threads here on doing all of that.
Otherwise, you may end up reconsidering your decision to install Leopard because you think it's too slow.
Don't add to Leopard's bad rap of being labeled as too slow.
Several of the later 15 and 17" PBs(including a couple of non-DLSD models) had Radeon 9700s, which actually handle the "eye candy" fairly well. Both my 15" and 17" DLSDs have pretty much bone-stock Leopard installs(with a few built-in cosmetic changes to suit my taste, like the dock size) and even some extra "eye candy" turned on like dock magnification. I find Leopard at least as fast as Tiger on those systems(the only two versions of OS X they can run).
In general, though, I agree. On Cubes with a lowly(relatively speaking) GEForce 2MX or Radeon 7500(there aren't that many choices in a Cube) I did turn off a fair number of the GUI effects to help perk them up. The black "glassy" dock combined with eliminating the "genie" effect and magnification make a noticeable difference. Magnification and the genie effect can be turned off from the "Dock" pane in System Preferences. The glassy dock is enabled by default if you put it on the left or right of the screen, and can be turned on for the bottom of the screen with a terminal command or by using the Secrets preference pane.
Leopard does offer a lot of newer graphics technologies than Tiger and as a result needs a better GPU for good performance. Optimization helps but a QE/CI compatible GPU is a must for stellar Leopard performance. Fortunately, to my knowledge, all Aluminum 15" and 17" PowerBooks had full QE/CI support.
If Wikipedia is to be believed, the first generation 15"(1.0 or 1.25ghz) had a Radeon 9600 GPU, which is a great CI GPU(I love the desktop versions of these). The later ones had 9700s, which are even better.
The first generation(1.0ghz) 17"-which came out while the Ti was still being made-used the GeForce 4 Go440. I don't think any "4" series GPUs supported CI. Even the best GeForce 4 desktop card-the 4Ti 4600-didn't support it.
I think you are right. I always forget that the 15" and 17" were not introduced alongside each other. I always use Mactracker on my Leopard machines since it is still updated! I forgot to look this time and was wrong...
That is true. However, I believe in wringing the most out of your system that you can.
If the system can handle the effects and you want to utilize them then by all means, keep them. My old 17" DLSD never really had any issues with the effects, but it's just a personal preference for me to turn it all off.
It makes a difference IMO when running Photoshop, InDesign, Acrobat, Illustrator and a bunch of other apps all at once, which happened a year or so ago when my DLSD filled in as a production Mac for three weeks until we got the Mac Pro. On a side note, ShadowKiller is and always will be a friend. The MP at work only has 3GB of ram (1GB less than our G5) so ShadowKiller has played an important part here on the MP as well.
Lastly, I'd argue that while I do agree that these later Macs are more capable, many people tend to skimp on ram. It's one thing for these capable Macs to perform when they've got 2GB or close to it and quite another if a user decides that 512mb is just fine.
That does not seem to be the case here, but I also additionally offered this advice just to combat the well entrenched negative opinion of Leopard from the Tiger fans in the forum.
I didn't quote the rest of your post, but that was because we see things similarly when it comes to lower spec Macs. So, I do recognize that part of your post.
Yes, I'm fantasicing about doing exactly this with my 8600 over the summer xD.
Splashing out on 18 year old SIMM's when some people work 2 jobs on minimum wage to survive...I try not to think about it...
I was going to order it today, but got talked into buying another Cube last night . Of course, it didn't exactly take much "talking" to get me to buy it, especially when the seller told me the price and with the fact that it has a 1.5ghz upgrade. Still, though, I have four of the things, so don't exactly need another.
There went the RAM budget for this month, although someone slipped $100 in my pocket at my graduation party the other day(despite the "no gifts" request) that might go toward it. I'll see after I get back from vacation next week.
What clouds my impression over Tiger vs Leopard is my own peculiar installation experiences, the most recent being this: bought a 1.25Ghz 15" Powerbook with 1Gb RAM off ebay, installed 10.5.8, did all the speed tricks and optimisations and was disappointed with performance. Installed Tiger instead and it ran like a dream. After a while, I tried Debian Linux on the machine but didn't like it so tried Leopard again. This time, it was as fast as it should be even before the optimisations and yet the machine had received no upgrades.
I've no idea what would cause the difference but maybe if others have similar experiences, that would contribute to the impression of Leopard being slower.
I don't have any Cubes, if you feel like balancing your karma
My deepest sympathies, I'm sure this must be a tough time for you.
If we had hashtags like on Twitter(not that I've ever been on Twitter) I might label it #firstworldproblems
I bought another 15" DLSD last week that had Ubuntu installed. The seller offered to wipe it before sending, but I wanted to give Ubuntu a try. After using it on and off for a day or two, I'm ready to ditch it for Leopard.
Ubuntu(and other Linux distros) have a lot to offer for PPC that Leopard doesn't, but the way the trackpad works under Ubuntu drives me crazy.
I want to keep the Ubuntu install(since I know it took a fair bit of work to set up), so I'm probably going to drop another HDD in it for Leopard. I just wish I had an SSD handy.
I installed Debian with the Openbox desktop - absolute minimalist install and was expecting a fast system with bang upto date browser...but was disappointed. I found Tiger faster plus I had the security of all the apps I know so well - Linux is great but so far I feel it works better on a PC.
I'll just mention this, and perhaps it's something you know already but for completeness sake
What I have long done (as the suggestion of more knowledgeable people) is that after an initial install, I repair permissions.
After an update (usually the combo update) I repair permissions. And then finally, after any subsequent updates (Java, Migration Assistant, iTunes, etc) I repair permissions.
You shouldn't have to, but the installers always seem to screw up permissions.
I know this works because repairing permissions has more than once seriously improved the boot and login speeds of Snow Leopard on my MBP. And it's done the same for my PowerPC Macs although the speed improvement was somewhat less than what I have experienced with my MBP.
In any case, that does not explain your experience. However, one more thought here.
It's possible that Spotlight was slowing you down the first time around. On a clean install Leopard will take forever before it gets "normal" because it's indexing the drive heavily.
The only guess I can make here is that when you reinstalled Leopard, it already had Tiger's spotlight index to work with. But that assumes that your install of Debian was alongside Tiger.
I have no idea why your experience happened this way.
I picked up a PDQ yesterday that had m68klinux on it. Could not get it to boot without KPing, so my brief foray into PPC Linux was shorter than most.
It certainly is a mystery because all of your good advice is what I always do after any installation. At first instance I disable Spotlight, do all the updates, install apps, repair permissions then turn Spotlight back on and leave it to finish. In the Powerbook example, I formatted the drive each time and that Debian install was by itself, not alongside Tiger.
I also sometimes get that recurring problem where the Leopard combo update freezes or if I'm lucky, just hangs for 30 minutes.
At least I now know a sluggish Leopard is cured by a reinstall