Nope no one, but some, I think, are pushing the edge where it all depends on how you look at it. Like I said though... or did I say this?... there are Ava's worse than mine.yoak said:
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Powerbook or Dell XPS?
- Thread starter iQuit
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
The PowerBooks were never designed to take on the load of a heavy duty
workstation.
Most of the people needing that kind of performance may keep up with their
projects on a portable, but the heavy work still gets done on their primary
desktop system.
If you really want a kick ass workstation, buy a G5 Quad and try to tell anyone here that it's not worth every penny of $3200.
Boxx and Alienware offer some fantastic hardware too, but you're back to dealing with Windows issues and generally loose many multi-tasking capabilities due to the different buss systems and there's very little price
advantage.
Hopefully as a professional, you're earning enough to afford the best tools
available for your trade.
If you invest $5000 in a system and you're not earning enough to cover
$5.00 a day for your gear over three years, then you might as well close up shop.
workstation.
Most of the people needing that kind of performance may keep up with their
projects on a portable, but the heavy work still gets done on their primary
desktop system.
If you really want a kick ass workstation, buy a G5 Quad and try to tell anyone here that it's not worth every penny of $3200.
Boxx and Alienware offer some fantastic hardware too, but you're back to dealing with Windows issues and generally loose many multi-tasking capabilities due to the different buss systems and there's very little price
advantage.
Hopefully as a professional, you're earning enough to afford the best tools
available for your trade.
If you invest $5000 in a system and you're not earning enough to cover
$5.00 a day for your gear over three years, then you might as well close up shop.
It comes down to what you want to be working with for the next 3 years. For me, I chose an iMac 3 years ago and now I have just purchased a new Powerbook to last me another couple of years. I did not choose it for its hardware, I chose it because I would rather have something that looked wondrous and ran Mac OS.
The XPS sounds like an interesting option, not one I would be looking at though. Particularly if I were looking for that kind of performance I would not even be looking at a laptop but a desktop. Laptops in my mind are meant for portability not performance, light and portably dimensioned.
Oh well good hunting, hope you find your dream machine...
Iggy
The XPS sounds like an interesting option, not one I would be looking at though. Particularly if I were looking for that kind of performance I would not even be looking at a laptop but a desktop. Laptops in my mind are meant for portability not performance, light and portably dimensioned.
Oh well good hunting, hope you find your dream machine...
Iggy
Fftt...
>>>I don't remember iQuit saying anything about investing $5k in a system....or having his own "shop"...so what's your point?
It seems your point is: since Apple now has the quad PM..they are justified in selling a PB for $2500 with a Radeon 9700...a bus speed that is a joke, etc, etc, etc...and how dare anyone criticize the PB! One should simply adjust their expectations and needs(!) to fit whatever Apple offers....and be thrilled! That doesn't work for me anymore.
Apple has had their hands tied regarding the PB...granted...but that is due to THEIR decisions...period. It will be over soon enough, but let's not deny the truth regarding the current PB. It is way over priced for the performance it offers compared to pc laptops...why is that soooo hard for people to admit??? ....and if someone's not looking for performance...why would someone buy a POWERbook...get an iBook. It's like buying a Ferarri with a VW engine. It looks great...BFD...woohooo.
As i have said before...there is MUCH to celebrate about various Apple products...its just that the PB ain't one of those products.
FFTT said:The PowerBooks were never designed to take on the load of a heavy duty workstation.
>>>I don't know of anyone who has suggested any laptop or the Powerbook will equal a topnotch "workstation"....then again..what differentiates the *POWER*book from an iBook? Your statement side steps the issue imo. Since the PB can't compete against the similarly priced pc laptop...let's change the context of comparison.
FFTT:Most of the people needing that kind of performance may keep up with their
projects on a portable, but the heavy work still gets done on their primary
desktop system.
>>>Ideally..yes, but iQuit, if I have understood his situation correctly...is not in that situation. I think what iQuit is asking for IS VERY reasonable. Simply...what's the most powerful portable solution for $2500? He hasn't asked it to compete with the quad PM...or a Opteron quad system. He's been very reasonable.
FFTT:If you really want a kick ass workstation, buy a G5 Quad and try to tell anyone here that it's not worth every penny of $3200.
>>>The quad is cool. So? How does that help iQuit? It is NOT impossible to get a borderline workstation performance laptop for $2500. It seems to me...it's simply an issue on these forums because the current PB isn't competitive with the pc offerings in this quasi workstation/price range arena. Sooo...now, we're typing about the quad PM vs Boxxtech, etc....attempting (poorly) to discard the whole idea that such a laptop even exists! I don't get it. If we're gonna "go there"...at least..can we type about Boxxtech's go2300 laptop or the Sager AMD X2 dual core laptop? Otherwise...let' start a new thread. Btw, the new Sager AMD X2 dual core laptop is a monster performer...and as iQuit correctly stated..it competes against the dual core PM's...it's THAT good.
FFTT:Boxx and Alienware offer some fantastic hardware too, but you're back to dealing with Windows issues and generally loose many multi-tasking capabilities due to the different buss systems
>>Totally lost me here. "lose multitasking capabilities??? huh? That's not true at all. FUD. AMD and Intel workstations kick ass...especially the AMD systems these days. They are multitasking powerhouses! The server market...can you say multitasking!...are overwhelmingly pc based. Go around to the FX houses in LA or SF...where I work......blatant predominance of pc workstations and pc render farms. Even Pixar(!!) only switched from pc after the G5 revB PMs i believe. Are they ALL just clueless?
FFTT:and there's very little price
advantage.
>>>I agree..if any at all...in regards to a PM vs Boxxtech desktop. The PMs are competitive in performance and price for turnkey systems. I can get the quad PM for less than I'm about to pay for my AMD Boxxtech workstation...I have owned some kind of Mac since 1985. Yet, I'm buying the Boxxtech...and I think I have very solid reasons for choosing that system over the quad PM. I love OSX...and do not(!) prefer XP...yet still...i'm buying the Boxxtech. I have my reasons. I think it's a smarter buy at this time. I bought a 17" 1.67 PB last June...put 2gigs of RAM in it. I regret it big time..for *my* needs. Once you see first hand the performance of the Boxxtech go2300 rendering a Maya scene or AE (After Effects) sequence...the current PBs look pathetic. OpenGL performance...laughable compared to the Boxxtech laptop...and the new AMD X2 laptop is even better...much.
FFTT:Hopefully as a professional, you're earning enough to afford the best tools
available for your trade.
>>>I believe...iQuit is a professional in training
FFTT:If you invest $5000 in a system and you're not earning enough to cover
$5.00 a day for your gear over three years, then you might as well close up shop.
>>>I don't remember iQuit saying anything about investing $5k in a system....or having his own "shop"...so what's your point?
It seems your point is: since Apple now has the quad PM..they are justified in selling a PB for $2500 with a Radeon 9700...a bus speed that is a joke, etc, etc, etc...and how dare anyone criticize the PB! One should simply adjust their expectations and needs(!) to fit whatever Apple offers....and be thrilled! That doesn't work for me anymore.
Apple has had their hands tied regarding the PB...granted...but that is due to THEIR decisions...period. It will be over soon enough, but let's not deny the truth regarding the current PB. It is way over priced for the performance it offers compared to pc laptops...why is that soooo hard for people to admit??? ....and if someone's not looking for performance...why would someone buy a POWERbook...get an iBook. It's like buying a Ferarri with a VW engine. It looks great...BFD...woohooo.
As i have said before...there is MUCH to celebrate about various Apple products...its just that the PB ain't one of those products.
I suppose I failed to get my point accross.
I don't think the PowerBook is the right machine for iQuit's needs and certainly not the Dell
but I DO think he would be happy with a PowerMac especially a Quad and just keep the iBook for basic portable needs.
Even with the better Windows laptops mentioned, he'd be taking quite
a performance hit when compared to any serious desktop workstation.
Spending $2500 on a laptop with so many major advancements in all laptops so near in the future simply seems like bad timing.
I don't think the PowerBook is the right machine for iQuit's needs and certainly not the Dell
but I DO think he would be happy with a PowerMac especially a Quad and just keep the iBook for basic portable needs.
Even with the better Windows laptops mentioned, he'd be taking quite
a performance hit when compared to any serious desktop workstation.
Spending $2500 on a laptop with so many major advancements in all laptops so near in the future simply seems like bad timing.
I think I am going to get a PowerMac, the only thing is... I am not home a lot so I don't know what to do. But I am currently using a killer custom PC with AMD and NVIDIA. The PowerMac can suit my needs, but home needs, not portable. I am just going to have to think.
the site xvsxp.com weighs out the pro and cons of both Windows XP and Mac os X. It is a great site, and even if you have your mind made up, it worth a look.
well..that changes everything!
>>>Dude...first, which AMD? X2? if so...that rocks. As I *think* I've made clear...ahem...*I* think the PB is a dog in terms of price(!)/performance for dcc...video editing, etc. That opinion is based on owning a revD PB and DOING dcc, editing, etc. If the 17" PB was $1800...then ok, but it ain't.
The new PowerMacs with PCI-E are pretty sweet. I decided to go with an AMD workstation for various reasons, but I won't "go there"...
Bottom line: the new PowerMacs (PM) **ARE** competitive in price and performance to the pc's. A dual 2.0 PM with the NVIDIA 7800gt (well worth the wait) would be a VERY sweet machine for FCP Studio, etc.
Unfortunately, the Dell coupons for their 24" lcd just expired..see barefeats.com...but they will come back relatively soon. They always do. For a comparison between the Dell and Apple lcd's...go to barefeats.com..an Apple lover site!...The Dell is better...and it *was* going for $779....$520 less than the Apple 23"...and again, it's better and bigger too!
When you're not at home...are you in situations/environments where you would actually work? Would you REALLY edit in the field?...or at home? Are you traveling...especially to other countries...doing documentaries, etc...and need to edit away from home?
Different versions of the same exact question
Happy contemplating..."mer-OM"..mer-OM"..."mer-OM"
You could.... buy my PB...it's fully loaded
peace
iQuit said:
>>>Dude...first, which AMD? X2? if so...that rocks. As I *think* I've made clear...ahem...*I* think the PB is a dog in terms of price(!)/performance for dcc...video editing, etc. That opinion is based on owning a revD PB and DOING dcc, editing, etc. If the 17" PB was $1800...then ok, but it ain't.
The new PowerMacs with PCI-E are pretty sweet. I decided to go with an AMD workstation for various reasons, but I won't "go there"...
Bottom line: the new PowerMacs (PM) **ARE** competitive in price and performance to the pc's. A dual 2.0 PM with the NVIDIA 7800gt (well worth the wait) would be a VERY sweet machine for FCP Studio, etc.
Unfortunately, the Dell coupons for their 24" lcd just expired..see barefeats.com...but they will come back relatively soon. They always do. For a comparison between the Dell and Apple lcd's...go to barefeats.com..an Apple lover site!...The Dell is better...and it *was* going for $779....$520 less than the Apple 23"...and again, it's better and bigger too!
When you're not at home...are you in situations/environments where you would actually work? Would you REALLY edit in the field?...or at home? Are you traveling...especially to other countries...doing documentaries, etc...and need to edit away from home?
Different versions of the same exact question
Happy contemplating..."mer-OM"..mer-OM"..."mer-OM"
You could.... buy my PB...it's fully loaded
peace
Fftt...
>>Well, ...yes....but...iQuit *was* saying he needed a laptop now. When you need it, you NEED it....which is why i bought my PB when I did. I needed a laptop...traveling a LOT. Yet, must mention... the size of the future leap in performance for *APPLE* laptops will be FAR greater than the leap for pc laptops (well, it better be!)...and in that context...i agree wholeheartedly...thus "Spending $2500......**for an Apple laptop**...seems like bad timing". Absolutely. If you don't absolutely NEED a laptop...and you would prefer an Apple PB, which i can 100% understand...wait. It's a no-brainer. And YOU might say...even if you have a Dell XPS, wouldn't it also be wise to wait for the merom based pc laptops versus buying now?...and I would agree...IF...you have a XPS...or a pc laptop that meets your current NEEDS. (dcc, editing, etc). Right now, the difference in performance/price between the PB and iBook is not justified at all. The iBook is a MUCH better product for the $. What I've gotten out this thread is...that many people buy PBs over iBooks..not because they actually need higher performance, but because they look cooler. Hey...it's your money, but *I* would rather take a trip to Italy...and search for Monica Belucci.
peace
FFTT said:I suppose I failed to get my point accross.
>>>maybe... or maybe i'm just dense....drugs during adolescence.
Spending $2500 on a laptop with so many major advancements in all laptops so near in the future simply seems like bad timing .
>>Well, ...yes....but...iQuit *was* saying he needed a laptop now. When you need it, you NEED it....which is why i bought my PB when I did. I needed a laptop...traveling a LOT. Yet, must mention... the size of the future leap in performance for *APPLE* laptops will be FAR greater than the leap for pc laptops (well, it better be!)...and in that context...i agree wholeheartedly...thus "Spending $2500......**for an Apple laptop**...seems like bad timing". Absolutely. If you don't absolutely NEED a laptop...and you would prefer an Apple PB, which i can 100% understand...wait. It's a no-brainer. And YOU might say...even if you have a Dell XPS, wouldn't it also be wise to wait for the merom based pc laptops versus buying now?...and I would agree...IF...you have a XPS...or a pc laptop that meets your current NEEDS. (dcc, editing, etc). Right now, the difference in performance/price between the PB and iBook is not justified at all. The iBook is a MUCH better product for the $. What I've gotten out this thread is...that many people buy PBs over iBooks..not because they actually need higher performance, but because they look cooler. Hey...it's your money, but *I* would rather take a trip to Italy...and search for Monica Belucci.
peace
I am thinking about spending 3 grand (education discount) because I will be receiving more money soon, and getting the Dual 2.3 GHz with a monitor. But is the price really justified for the Apple Monitor? There are other monitors for less like http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1286822&CatId=1410
I REALLY need a laptop but I need something for video editing and nothing really currently suits my needs. I am on the go a lot but I don't have time to choose a laptop. There are THOUSANDS of PC manufactures, even some I probably haven't heard of, and I'd have to look around for the best price>performance ratio.
Currently I have about $2500 I can spend but I may be able to save up about $3000, and then the desktop is a no-brainer.(PowerMac) I have a fairly good PC now but it still isn't "what I want". I just need performance, I CAN live without a laptop, I am just not home a lot and may have to use someone elses computer, therefore needing a external drive. I would say I am home 2-4 days out of the week, so portability WOULD help, but I guess I can live without a laptop until a new PowerBook comes out. I just wish they had a better PowerBook now. Thanks for all the responses, a PowerMac will suit My needs, now only if the PowerBook could've had a G5.
I REALLY need a laptop but I need something for video editing and nothing really currently suits my needs. I am on the go a lot but I don't have time to choose a laptop. There are THOUSANDS of PC manufactures, even some I probably haven't heard of, and I'd have to look around for the best price>performance ratio.
Currently I have about $2500 I can spend but I may be able to save up about $3000, and then the desktop is a no-brainer.(PowerMac) I have a fairly good PC now but it still isn't "what I want". I just need performance, I CAN live without a laptop, I am just not home a lot and may have to use someone elses computer, therefore needing a external drive. I would say I am home 2-4 days out of the week, so portability WOULD help, but I guess I can live without a laptop until a new PowerBook comes out. I just wish they had a better PowerBook now. Thanks for all the responses, a PowerMac will suit My needs, now only if the PowerBook could've had a G5.
What I do.
I am currently still in highschool, but I am in a video editing class, go to film camps and edit a lot. I am thinking about doing it as a career. So why do I need so much performance?
I edit and shoot films for people, friends, and school for money. I travel a lot and film and edit, which is why I need portability more than a desktop. I get paid pretty decent money from customers and will probably be looking for a job opportunity. I might even open my own business or make one with my dad. I also am going to start doing 3D rendering, and have been doing image editing for a long time, as well as web pages, working on computers, and pretty much anything dealing with computers. I am also going to start learning how to code applications. So I am not sure if I am classified as a "Professional" but I do need the performance. For personal use I am starting to edit music. I have other reasons of why I need the power but I cannot think at the moment. But that is pretty much it. I also do know Macs are the best at doing what they do, and one of those things is editing videos.
(edit) At the moment I don't really rely on video editing for money, I would say it is more of a hobby. But I will be going to college for computers.
I am currently still in highschool, but I am in a video editing class, go to film camps and edit a lot. I am thinking about doing it as a career. So why do I need so much performance?
I edit and shoot films for people, friends, and school for money. I travel a lot and film and edit, which is why I need portability more than a desktop. I get paid pretty decent money from customers and will probably be looking for a job opportunity. I might even open my own business or make one with my dad. I also am going to start doing 3D rendering, and have been doing image editing for a long time, as well as web pages, working on computers, and pretty much anything dealing with computers. I am also going to start learning how to code applications. So I am not sure if I am classified as a "Professional" but I do need the performance. For personal use I am starting to edit music. I have other reasons of why I need the power but I cannot think at the moment. But that is pretty much it. I also do know Macs are the best at doing what they do, and one of those things is editing videos.
(edit) At the moment I don't really rely on video editing for money, I would say it is more of a hobby. But I will be going to college for computers.
How bout an iMac?
Every time I go on vacation, I toss my iMac in its travel case and take it with me. No, i can't bring it to school very easily, but it's a hell of a lot more portable than a Power Mac, plus it's inexpensive. You could buy the base model for $1300 or so and have plenty more power than a PowerBook, and replace it in a couple years when the Intel PB's are in their second or third revision.
Ken
Every time I go on vacation, I toss my iMac in its travel case and take it with me. No, i can't bring it to school very easily, but it's a hell of a lot more portable than a Power Mac, plus it's inexpensive. You could buy the base model for $1300 or so and have plenty more power than a PowerBook, and replace it in a couple years when the Intel PB's are in their second or third revision.
Ken
I'm not in the habit of posting FUD.
OS X makes a PowerMac far superior in multi-tasking and the new dual core 970MP CPU's add to that efficiency.
Believe me, I would love to see a high end dual core Opteron workstation
running OS X, but I just don't have the patience to deal with Windows XP.
In fact I'm in aggreement with those wishing that Apple would port
OS X to the higher end AMD workstations along with the future Intel transition but all that is 2 years down the road.
iQuit, I admire your dedication to your craft, especially at your age.
The drawback to your craft is that it's damn expensive for all the gear you need. I feel your pain. I've already blown more than $5000 trying to put together a multi-track home project studio and I could easily double my investment in about 10 minutes surfing the equipment catalogs.
You're going to be building up and replacing gear pretty much forever, but
right now I'd concentrate on getting the best CPU you can afford as the base for your set-up. The dual core 2.3 is a great machine to start with and allows for considerable expansion.
If you're doing anything at all on your iBook, you'll be blown away by how fast a PowerMac gets it done.
With a limited budget, I'd put as much as possible into your CPU and
work your way up on the display and other accessories.
You can get a 20" Dell 2005 for under $400, a 20" ACD for $699 or the 24" Dell 2405 WS HD display for about $800. All are good choices.
If you really need to budget crunch, consider a good CRT to get you rolling cheap.
If there's any way you can get by long enough to better fund your purchase, you'll be glad you did.
OS X makes a PowerMac far superior in multi-tasking and the new dual core 970MP CPU's add to that efficiency.
Believe me, I would love to see a high end dual core Opteron workstation
running OS X, but I just don't have the patience to deal with Windows XP.
In fact I'm in aggreement with those wishing that Apple would port
OS X to the higher end AMD workstations along with the future Intel transition but all that is 2 years down the road.
iQuit, I admire your dedication to your craft, especially at your age.
The drawback to your craft is that it's damn expensive for all the gear you need. I feel your pain. I've already blown more than $5000 trying to put together a multi-track home project studio and I could easily double my investment in about 10 minutes surfing the equipment catalogs.
You're going to be building up and replacing gear pretty much forever, but
right now I'd concentrate on getting the best CPU you can afford as the base for your set-up. The dual core 2.3 is a great machine to start with and allows for considerable expansion.
If you're doing anything at all on your iBook, you'll be blown away by how fast a PowerMac gets it done.
With a limited budget, I'd put as much as possible into your CPU and
work your way up on the display and other accessories.
You can get a 20" Dell 2005 for under $400, a 20" ACD for $699 or the 24" Dell 2405 WS HD display for about $800. All are good choices.
If you really need to budget crunch, consider a good CRT to get you rolling cheap.
If there's any way you can get by long enough to better fund your purchase, you'll be glad you did.
Good advice FFTT...!
FFTT said:I'm not in the habit of posting FUD.
OS X makes a PowerMac far superior in multi-tasking and the new dual core 970MP CPU's add to that efficiency.
FFTT:
Believe me, I would love to see a high end dual core Opteron workstation
running OS X,
>>>Wouldn't THAT be sweet!!!??? Amen.
<snip>
FFTT:
You can get a 20" Dell 2005 for under $400, a 20" ACD for $699 or the 24" Dell 2405 WS HD display for about $800. All are good choices.
>>>I second this big time. The Dell coupons on the 24" 2405 expired yesterday, but they WILL be back and relatively soon...patience. Watch barefeats.com (or dealmac.com) for the coupons. With the coupon, the 24" Dell is $779. I have one, it rocks. Barefeats.com is a good Apple tech site. See barefeats.com for their comparison of the Dell 24" with Apple 23". The Dell is a better monitor...bigger...and $520 cheaper. No, it's not as pretty as the Apple.
Also, like Ken said, the iMac would work just fine...and it's almost quasi portable. Much better than a PB for editing, etc. iQuit...you mentioned 3d. In the realm of 3d...rendering with radiocity, for example...it can be 3 minutes for one frame! So be careful there...forget ANY Apple laptop and to a lesser degree, 99% of the pc laptops too....you can get by with the iMac.....and of course, the PM is your best Apple choice. Since you have lessened your priority on mobility (laptop)...knowing your whole situation...*I* would recommend the iMac 20". Imo, now is not the time to be making big investments in Apple products. Get in as cheap as you can...and wait for merom PB's and revB or C(!) MacTel PowerMacs to blow all your cash. FYI...Intel just today shook up their "roadmap" and are basically going to copy AMDs HyperTransport...good news...cuz AMD is kicking Intels a$$ these days. But i digress...
Sounds like you are getting closer....
peace
PowerMac...
I have a Windows workstation that I currently use to edit videos as well as editing videos on the Macs at school. I have decided just to wait till next year for the PowerBook and get a PowerMac. I am even thinking about somehow getting the quadcore one since it can better suit my needs. The iBook that I had originally had boughten I recently gave to my brother for college. Thanks for all your guys' help and helping me find what I needed. I am sure the PowerMac will be plenty of fast.
(edit) I am thinking about getting an iMac since it is semi-portable...any comments on that? Can it handle the load of some major video editing?
(edit2)That is a little over 2 grand.
Specifications:
* 1.5GB 533 DDR2 SDRAM - 1x512, 1x1GB
* 500GB Serial ATA drive
* SuperDrive (DVD+R DL/DVD+RW/CD-RW)
* Keyboard & Mighty Mouse + Mac OS X - U.S. English
* Final Cut Express HD preinstalled
* 20-inch widescreen LCD
* 2.1GHz PowerPC G5
* ATI Radeon X600 XL with 128MB DDR Video Memory
* AirPort Extreme
* Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR
I have a Windows workstation that I currently use to edit videos as well as editing videos on the Macs at school. I have decided just to wait till next year for the PowerBook and get a PowerMac. I am even thinking about somehow getting the quadcore one since it can better suit my needs. The iBook that I had originally had boughten I recently gave to my brother for college. Thanks for all your guys' help and helping me find what I needed. I am sure the PowerMac will be plenty of fast.
(edit) I am thinking about getting an iMac since it is semi-portable...any comments on that? Can it handle the load of some major video editing?
(edit2)That is a little over 2 grand.
Specifications:
* 1.5GB 533 DDR2 SDRAM - 1x512, 1x1GB
* 500GB Serial ATA drive
* SuperDrive (DVD+R DL/DVD+RW/CD-RW)
* Keyboard & Mighty Mouse + Mac OS X - U.S. English
* Final Cut Express HD preinstalled
* 20-inch widescreen LCD
* 2.1GHz PowerPC G5
* ATI Radeon X600 XL with 128MB DDR Video Memory
* AirPort Extreme
* Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR
Hopefully OSX86 will be able to run on any x86 machine...but by that time, the Macs will probably be kicking the PC's @$$'s.
Sometimes it's better to get one really good thing at a time.
The iMac would be O.K. to get you through your first few years learning
the applications and working with editing, but from what you've told us, you'll
outgrow it very quickly.
The G5 dual core allows up to a TB of internal storage and 16 GB DDR2 RAM
You can start with a basic PCI-express card and work your way up as your needs warrant.
As long as you have the PowerMac chassis with the basics, you're way ahead of the iMac for expansion capabilities.
You might want to talk this over with your family too including grand parents.
Sometimes dedication pays off in surprising ways.
The iMac would be O.K. to get you through your first few years learning
the applications and working with editing, but from what you've told us, you'll
outgrow it very quickly.
The G5 dual core allows up to a TB of internal storage and 16 GB DDR2 RAM
You can start with a basic PCI-express card and work your way up as your needs warrant.
As long as you have the PowerMac chassis with the basics, you're way ahead of the iMac for expansion capabilities.
You might want to talk this over with your family too including grand parents.
Sometimes dedication pays off in surprising ways.
I totally agree, the iMac is pretty good for now, but the PowerMac will continue to be good for longer because of expansion. It is so weird once you start getting into Pro Apps, then computers that seemed fast, just aren't fast enough anymore. I am guessing on trips I can take the PowerMac, just I can' take it everywhere. I know SLI is really good on graphics right now, but what do you recommend on RAM? See I am used to computers and Macs, just I am less experienced on a Mac as I am on a PC, and I know they are designed and work completely different. I am going to buy the PowerMac this upcoming week(hopefully) and then by next year I will have made enough money and more to buy a Intel Powerbook. The PM and PB should suit my needs for years. I will let you know how it goes. Also, how long do you think it will take for it to get to me?
I am guessing on trips I can take the PowerMac, just I can' take it everywhere. I know SLI is really good on graphics right now, but what do you recommend on RAM? See I am used to computers and Macs, just I am less experienced on a Mac as I am on a PC, and I know they are designed and work completely different. I am going to buy the PowerMac this upcoming week(hopefully) and then by next year I will have made enough money and more to buy a Intel Powerbook. The PM and PB should suit my needs for years. I will let you know how it goes. Also, how long do you think it will take for it to get to me?FFTT said:
hmmmm
>>>iQuit..well, it's been an adventure! If *I* had an AMD "workstation" and access to Macs at school like you do, *I* wouldn't buy any Apple product now..or any pc either... (well, maybe an iBook for general stuff)....and sit out the inevitable bumps in the road during this Apple switch to x86. You will save yourself a LOT of money..and probably a good amount of grief too. How can we talk of true longevity of a product (quad PM) that uses a platform (PPC) that is going to begin to be replaced within six months??? It doesn't make ANY sense to *me*...to choose a quad PM as a foundation cpu to build upon. It's PPC! If you have the money to burn...as an interim machine....it's very nice.
You mention getting a quad PM now and a MacTel PB next year...and that combo covering you for a long time. "Interesting". So you're up for buying two entire sets of applications? Adobe CS for MacTel and Adobe CS for PPC???...FCP Studio for MacTel and FCP Studio for PPC?..etc, etc, etc??? Big $$$.
Also.. the HEADACHES of trying to work on a project using both machines...switching between platforms...yikes!
If you decide to ignore the above...
Now..you are thinking PM quad? wow. Nice machine. Just consider this..since your budget has somehow grown significantly...a quad PM with a decent graphics card for your purposes (7800gt) and 2 gigs of RAM is gonna run you $3950 w/o a monitor. Throw in the Dell 24" at $779...total is basically $4750. For significantly less money, you could get this laptop:
AMD Athlon 64 X2 dual core processor (64bit capable!)
nVidia Go 7800GTX PCI-E 256MB DDR3
RAID capable(!)
17" WUXGA 1920x1200
2gigs RAM
etc, etc...
http://www.sagernotebook.com/pages/go_np9750.html
...OR...
See if Boxxtech will build you the same thing.
this IS a workstation laptop....and even has 64bit longevity. REAL longevity. It can do 3d...and do it well. Now you have the mobility AND the performance...and!!!...you get to skip the Apple PPC to x86 madness. Go Apple in 2007(whenever Merom/Conroe chips come out)...when it won't burn you. There are going to be significant "bumps" in this transition...no crystal ball required.... plus stuff like...I will bet the house that OSX 10.5 will run much better on the MacTel platform than the PPC platform...thus encouraging people to buy new boxes....and that's just one example of what we can expect. On the other hand, if you have money to burn...hey...whatever..just have fun!
Good luck...
peace
PS: Somewhere I think i wrote about 3d renders with radiosity...and i typed 3 minutes for one frame..LOL!...major typo...more like 30 minutes to an hour..again..for ONE frame....and that's on GOOD hardware.
iQuit said:I totally agree, the iMac is pretty good for now, but the PowerMac will continue to be good for longer because of expansion. It is so weird once you start getting into Pro Apps, then computers that seemed fast, just aren't fast enough anymore.
>>>iQuit..well, it's been an adventure! If *I* had an AMD "workstation" and access to Macs at school like you do, *I* wouldn't buy any Apple product now..or any pc either... (well, maybe an iBook for general stuff)....and sit out the inevitable bumps in the road during this Apple switch to x86. You will save yourself a LOT of money..and probably a good amount of grief too. How can we talk of true longevity of a product (quad PM) that uses a platform (PPC) that is going to begin to be replaced within six months??? It doesn't make ANY sense to *me*...to choose a quad PM as a foundation cpu to build upon. It's PPC!
If you have the money to burn...as an interim machine....it's very nice.You mention getting a quad PM now and a MacTel PB next year...and that combo covering you for a long time. "Interesting". So you're up for buying two entire sets of applications? Adobe CS for MacTel and Adobe CS for PPC???...FCP Studio for MacTel and FCP Studio for PPC?..etc, etc, etc??? Big $$$.
Also.. the HEADACHES of trying to work on a project using both machines...switching between platforms...yikes!
If you decide to ignore the above...
Now..you are thinking PM quad? wow. Nice machine. Just consider this..since your budget has somehow grown significantly...a quad PM with a decent graphics card for your purposes (7800gt) and 2 gigs of RAM is gonna run you $3950 w/o a monitor. Throw in the Dell 24" at $779...total is basically $4750. For significantly less money, you could get this laptop:
AMD Athlon 64 X2 dual core processor (64bit capable!)
nVidia Go 7800GTX PCI-E 256MB DDR3
RAID capable(!)
17" WUXGA 1920x1200
2gigs RAM
etc, etc...
http://www.sagernotebook.com/pages/go_np9750.html
...OR...
See if Boxxtech will build you the same thing.
this IS a workstation laptop....and even has 64bit longevity. REAL longevity. It can do 3d...and do it well. Now you have the mobility AND the performance...and!!!...you get to skip the Apple PPC to x86 madness. Go Apple in 2007(whenever Merom/Conroe chips come out)...when it won't burn you. There are going to be significant "bumps" in this transition...no crystal ball required.... plus stuff like...I will bet the house that OSX 10.5 will run much better on the MacTel platform than the PPC platform...thus encouraging people to buy new boxes....and that's just one example of what we can expect. On the other hand, if you have money to burn...hey...whatever..just have fun!
Good luck...
peace
PS: Somewhere I think i wrote about 3d renders with radiosity...and i typed 3 minutes for one frame..LOL!...major typo...more like 30 minutes to an hour..again..for ONE frame....and that's on GOOD hardware.
That laptop does have some impressive specifications but gee wiz 12.5 lbs and does it come with a pair of complimentary asbestos trousers?
Fortunately, iQuit will be able to take full advantage of any software upgrades
over the next 4+ years with bulk education discounts.
My 7 year old G3 tower tells me , that his Quaddy will be just fine for quite
some time.
I would be far less concerned about seemless compatibility between OS X
Tiger and Leopard than I would about XP and Vista.
Of course playing it safe, no one would buy anything for the next 18 months, but that goes for everything in any platform.
Two years is a loooong time in IT development.
iQuit is getting ready to invest something like $80,000 in his future, so
an extra $1000.00 per year isn't going to make much difference.
Fortunately, iQuit will be able to take full advantage of any software upgrades
over the next 4+ years with bulk education discounts.
My 7 year old G3 tower tells me , that his Quaddy will be just fine for quite
some time.
I would be far less concerned about seemless compatibility between OS X
Tiger and Leopard than I would about XP and Vista.
Of course playing it safe, no one would buy anything for the next 18 months, but that goes for everything in any platform.
Two years is a loooong time in IT development.
iQuit is getting ready to invest something like $80,000 in his future, so
an extra $1000.00 per year isn't going to make much difference.
Are you serious? If you are a Mac user and you don't realize the advantages over XP I'm not sure what to say. I have to support both Intel and Mac - mixed environment. I can tell you that just the architecture of Windows OS itself lends to being unstable and not streamlined.
OSX with it's Unix core is going to be far more stable under most any circumstance.
So, my question to you is this. Have you really checked out the possibilities of the proposed (or implied) capabilities of the new Intel wave with Macs?
If I were you I'd take the advice of one of the other posters and just build a cheap (but fast) box for gaming if that's what you want and definitely get a 'book for every single other computing thing you'll be doing. Especially if it involves any graphic or video editing, etc. arena.
OSX with it's Unix core is going to be far more stable under most any circumstance.
So, my question to you is this. Have you really checked out the possibilities of the proposed (or implied) capabilities of the new Intel wave with Macs?
If I were you I'd take the advice of one of the other posters and just build a cheap (but fast) box for gaming if that's what you want and definitely get a 'book for every single other computing thing you'll be doing. Especially if it involves any graphic or video editing, etc. arena.
Oh, sorry - battery life. I have a 15" powerbook, and I've had it since August last year... I have gotten 5-6.25 hours out of it consistently by reducing the screen brightness, or average of 4-5 hours of Video editing, Photoshop, etc.
So the battery life all depends on the settings you have setup - even if you have things optimized for max performance gain, I still get a great life out of my battery on a year+ old 15" Aluminum
So the battery life all depends on the settings you have setup - even if you have things optimized for max performance gain, I still get a great life out of my battery on a year+ old 15" Aluminum
Fftt...
FFTT said:That laptop does have some impressive specifications but gee wiz 12.5 lbs and does it come with a pair of complimentary asbestos trousers?
>>> I've worked with the Boxxtech workstation laptop...no heat issues there...and the AMD X2 chip runs MUCH, MUCH cooler than the Intels..which begs the question why Apple chose Intel over AMD. ahem.
Weight. Duh. It isn't perfect...and the PB is???...still beats the sh*t out of the PB in performance...and weighs less than an iMac or PowerMac.
It even fits in a backpack...unlike the PM or iMac. He's young!
FFTT:
Fortunately, iQuit will be able to take full advantage of any software upgrades
over the next 4+ years with bulk education discounts.
>>>True and that's very cool. My software..dual format argument doesn't really hold up on second thought ...IF...he buys the pc laptop...and then switches to Apple in 2007 like I suggested as a plan B. He still would be dual format.
I still like plan A. He doesn't NEED anything. Sit tight. Be wise...or at least ...get in cheap with a iMac.
FFTT:
My 7 year old G3 tower tells me , that his Quaddy will be just fine for quite
some time.
>>I'm still willing to bet....if money is an issue...that he will be regretting a quad purchase come 2007. Not that the machine will be "bad" at all...but that x86 is going to create a very different Apple world..and he won't be part of it. Comparing G3 to G5 performance/compatability...vs... PPC to x86 is NOT the same thing. Far greater issues with the platform switch.
FFTT:
I would be far less concerned about seemless compatibility between OS X
Tiger and Leopard than I would about XP and Vista.
>>>I'm not suggesting 10.5 won't run on the PPC. I'm confident...it just won't run as well..and significantly so. That's just "good" business as far as Apple is concerned.,...makes people buy new hardware. And what if iQuit wants to sell his quad PPC in 2007 or 2008 and get the MacTel...WHO WILL BUY IT? and FOR WHAT PRICE? Dead end format. Again, he has access to good equipment now for FREE. Where's the "fire"?
XP to Vista...there are people running Vista beta 1 right now on 3 year old pc's. That says it all. Can your G3 run applications(!) like Aperture?...Motion? Nice reality check..
FFTT:
Of course playing it safe, no one would buy anything for the next 18 months, but that goes for everything in any platform.
>>Imo, you are VASTLY marginalizing this shift to x86.
Regardless...i'm finished ranting on this theme...
iQuit...Good luck with your purchase and enjoy it!
peace
I can't live without buying a new computer. A high-end Mac is better than a high-end PC in my opinion. Also to mention, my schools computers aren't too great. The Macs are dual G4 Power Macs at the best and they have but a couple Macs (All not New). I am thinking about getting that iMac, but then I might regret not buying a PowerMac in the future. Also about apps, they will have universal binaries, remember... ALL mac users are currently on PPC, and no more than 50% with switch within the first year. PPC will also be faster natively for a while than the Intel Macs and will support for more software. I am thinking of just buying the iMac... semi-portable, not too slow, good price.