Powerbook or Dell XPS?

[iQuit]

Vista needing 3 GHz or more is BS.

That means the majority of all PC users would need a new PC, and Intel can't push out that much faster anytime soon. So the OS mixed with Harware would be super slow.

 

[me_94501]

(I haven't waded through this entire thread yet, so forgive me if I missed anything)

This is the same advice I give to customers mulling over whether to go with a Mac or PC, and have experience with both. Go with what you feel most comfortable and productive in, even if it's slower. After all, what good is a 20 GHz processor, 2 TB of disk space, an ATI Radeon X300000000 with 500 GB VRAM if you don't like using it?

 

[FFTT]

The iMac certainly would free up your funds for extras and should hold you through at least your 1st 2 years in college.

If you buy the iMac and it doesn't perform up to your expectations, you can return it within 14 days and
upgrade to a Tower.

 

[hulugu]

1. Um, I'm not sure if you realise it, but depending on how you configure it, OS X can prove unstable buggy and a pain in the ass!
2. Well, this just isn't true. Xp is very low maintenance, just like OS X.
3. Vista will bring benefits but will also bring its share of problems, just like Tiger did, XP did, and Leopard probably will too.

Just wanted to point these things out

OSX can be unstable, buggy, and a pain in the ass, but I've found that to be so rare as to be almost mythical. XP on the other hand is a buggy, goofy system every time I've used it in a number of different situations on different machines with different users. XP needs a number of apps: anti-spyware, anti-virus, etc. to keep running, and I've had a couple of patches just totally munge the system. XP is for the most part stable, but is not nearly as good as OSX.
Vista will bring some benefits, but most of these won't affect users directly. Nor are any of the new Vista benefits something that trumps Tiger, much less Leopard. I also expect to see a raft of problems with Vista and older hardware, frankly I'll advise everyone I know to stay the hell away from it for at least 6 months.

 

[jaduffy108]

(I haven't waded through this entire thread yet, so forgive me if I missed anything)

This is the same advice I give to customers mulling over whether to go with a Mac or PC, and have experience with both. Go with what you feel most comfortable and productive in, even if it's slower. After all, what good is a 20 GHz processor, 2 TB of disk space, an ATI Radeon X300000000 with 500 GB VRAM if you don't like using it?

>>>And...how are your sales? lol. I would walk.

 

[hulugu]

>>>And...how are your sales? lol. I would walk.

I'd actually appreciate a salesman who not only knows what he is talking about but one who is willing to sell me what I need rather than what will make him the greatest commission. That's one of the reasons I can't stand Best Buy, which has target sales, and I like the Apple Store because they just want to sell you a computer or an iPod, not the Pioneer Home Audio solution when all I wanted was some blank CDs.
Furthermore, I've sold lots of things using the same system and I always got repeat customers who spent more money over the long term which paid me more handsomely than a single sale ever would.

 

[jaduffy108]

..uhhhh

Are you serious? If you are a Mac user and you don't realize the advantages over XP I'm not sure what to say. I have to support both Intel and Mac - mixed environment. I can tell you that just the architecture of Windows OS itself lends to being unstable and not streamlined.

OSX with it's Unix core is going to be far more stable under most any circumstance.

So, my question to you is this. Have you really checked out the possibilities of the proposed (or implied) capabilities of the new Intel wave with Macs?

If I were you I'd take the advice of one of the other posters and just build a cheap (but fast) box for gaming if that's what you want and definitely get a 'book for every single other computing thing you'll be doing. Especially if it involves any graphic or video editing, etc. arena.

...uuuUUUU talkin' ta me?
Have you read this thread??? Clearly..NOT.... This thread is NOT a XP or Vista vs OSX debate. Nor is it about gaming. Also...God!... this is getting old...OSX's superiority as an OS does NOT satisfy all *my* needs. Is that ok with you?

 

[FFTT]

I sent you a link about the OSX86 Project.

 

[jaduffy108]

iQuit....

I can't live without buying a new computer.

>>You have an AMD workstation..as you called it...and you "can't live" without buying a new computer??? uhhh...ok...if you say so. That's hard for me to understand.

A high-end Mac is better than a high-end PC in my opinion.
>>>why? ...in what way? Just curious. I love Macs, but why/how are they better than a pc? For what app, etc? Like i have said, it is likely I will buy a revB PM in 2008...and a merom PB too. So I get the Apple thang...
Back to the Apple being better than PC thang...OSX? yep. Broad dcc app platform? yep. I could continue, but...

If Macs are just simply better than PCs, then...
Does Digital Domain (Titanic, etc) use Macs? Nope. Does Lucas/ ILM (Star Wars) use Macs? Nope. Does WETA Digital (Lord of the Rings) use Macs? Nope. Geez...even Pixar(!), which is owned by Steve Jobs, didn't use Macs until fairly recently. What's my point? PC's that are set up for dcc run very well...have far greater flexibility and choices in PRO hardware, such as graphics cards, etc. Also..the drivers, etc are truly optimized for pc's..and they are NOT for Macs. It's been a wake up call for me...and i'm simply trying to save you the pain. (btw, i'm not saying you won't see a single mac at these facilities, rather that pc's are the backbone of production.) Be careful about getting into the Apple cult mentality. There is a LOT of misinformation on this website. Apple users in general are not remotely as educated about tech as PC folks. That should get some responses Apple does many things very well, but they are not the best in every arena. For example, the new PMs are the very first time EVER...EVER... that Apple has offered a true PRO graphics card! What does that say to you?

Also to mention, my schools computers aren't too great. The Macs are dual G4 Power Macs at the best and they have but a couple Macs (All not New). I am thinking about getting that iMac, but then I might regret not buying a PowerMac in the future.

>>> Not sure which G4 duals we're talking about, but...have you seen the benchmarks for the dual 1.25/1.42 G4's vs dual G5's? The dual G4's do quite well.
Anyway... Will you regret watching your PM resale value tank after x86 MacTels come out? Sorry, I know I'm being tough (and obnoxious ), but just trying to make a point(s). Say all PPC machines loose 40-50% in value...which is likely...45% of $4750 is $2137. A 20" iMac with 1.5 gigs of RAM would run $1900. 45% of $1900 is $855. BIG difference. Now... many will say that Macs hold their value better than PCs..and they would be correct. This PPC to x86 switch will be a different story. Not only will the value tank significantly more than usual, but finding a buyer will be MUCH more difficult...cuz everyone (who has a clue) will see the machine as part of a dead end platform...and it *is* a dead end platform...no matter how you slice and dice it.

Also about apps, they will have universal binaries,

>>> Do you think they will be equal in performance? I seriously doubt it. It's too good an opportunity to sale hardware. Look at what's happening NOW...with Aperture, Motion, etc...and that's within the *same* platform. Adobe has been pushing x86 for OSX for a l-o-n-g time...

remember... ALL mac users are currently on PPC, and no more than 50% with switch within the first year.

>>> Smart Apple buyers will definitely not switch on the revA machines. That would be asking for trouble. This is too big a shift to roll the dice on...and I speak from experience. Let Apple, Adobe, etc do their beta testing on someone else other than you.

PPC will also be faster natively for a while than the Intel Macs and will support for more software.

>>>I would bet against that scenario...Apple will not put out new machines on x86...which is BIG news...that are slower than the "old" platform. Why would they? Apple is not going to get too many more chances to "get it right" on the hardware side of things. Moto was a debacle! Almost put Apple out of business!! IBM partnership fell apart. With the iPod success...this is a huge opportunity for Apple...they can't blow it. Switching to x86 makes it harder for Apple to differenciate their products from mass market PC's in many ways. Same chips, etc. So...their new machines better kick some serious booty. They will actually need to make a point of differenciating the new machines from the PPC machines...to support and validate their "switch". IF...IF...the MacTels offer the choices and optimized drivers, etc of pc-land...plus OSX....the Intel Macs will be pretty sweet indeed.
Software support..initally..probably yes, BUT software companies are ecstatic about this switch to x86...and anxious to make it happen asap. They are going to save sooo much money! OSX x86 is what they are going to be truly supporting. That's undeniable. From what I'm "hearing"...Apple is in high gear to make this transition happen asap...ahead of schedule. PPC teams are being dismantled already. I live in "Apple-land". As I posted before..PPC teams not eliminated by any means...but there are a lot of folks looking for jobs now.

I am thinking of just buying the iMac... semi-portable, not too slow, good price.

>> Just to be clear, I'm not against the quad computer per se. It's a very nice machine. It's the timing of making an investment in the top of the line Mac (rarely wise in the best of circumstances) that I think is especially unwise. If PPC was going forward full steam...I wouldn't be challenging that choice. But it's not. The iMac makes much more sense to *me*. Any of these choices are better than a PB! Talk about a product that is going to tank in value six months from now...yikes!

Again...good luck and enjoy your new toy!

peace

 

[Aliquis]

Hahaha, I was simply commenting on several points that were made. I do hope that's okay with "you". So yes. There are many other things that you may need, I was simply pointing out what was addressed, and also commenting on some of the offerings placed by previous posters.

Furthermore, I was not raving about the superiority of OSX. My comment was directed at the statement (i believe in retort to someone mentioning xp not being stable) that XP "Is indeed a very stable OS".

Sorry for the confusion. My comment there was more directed at validating the fact that XP is indeed *not* a very stable operating system, expecially once you start using it for a length of time. That being said, it's what I would use if I were on an Intel box right now.

Again, apologies if you couldn't connect the comments where they were directed. I was assuming that you had read your own post through. Hope that helps.

Cheers.

 

[jaduffy108]

re: haHa...

Hahaha, I was simply commenting on several points that were made. I do hope that's okay with "you". So yes. There are many other things that you may need, I was simply pointing out what was addressed, and also commenting on some of the offerings placed by previous posters.

Furthermore, I was not raving about the superiority of OSX. My comment was directed at the statement (i believe in retort to someone mentioning xp not being stable) that XP "Is indeed a very stable OS".

>>>thank you for clarifying. There is no question in my mind...that OSX is a superior OS...on several fronts...BUT..."devout" Apple people exagerate..as I believe you do here...windows' inferiority. Windows *can* be quite stable. Please trust me on this...there are few working environments that depend on stability, etc more than the film fx industry. There are huge networks involved...exchanging MASSIVE size files...and most...most...are running on pc platform. When 10's of millions of dollars are on the line...they do not make that choice lightly. For example, Apple servers do not compete with AMD servers. That is simply a fact. This is, of course, outside the context of this thread, but the point remains. Optimizing windows and using some precautions requires more knowledge. I don't celebrate that, but Apple people (as I did) need to realize OSX is not the Holy Grail. I can get from point A to point B via XP too. There ARE advantages to Windows too. We (apple folks) usually go on and on about how MS copies Apple...and there's some significant truth to that, but Apple copies Windows too. Quietly

 

[freeny]

Definately go with the Dell XPS!

 

[jaduffy108]

Fud...fud...fud

OSX can be unstable, buggy, and a pain in the ass, but I've found that to be so rare as to be almost mythical. XP on the other hand is a buggy, goofy system every time I've used it in a number of different situations on different machines with different users. XP needs a number of apps: anti-spyware, anti-virus, etc. to keep running, and I've had a couple of patches just totally munge the system. XP is for the most part stable, but is not nearly as good as OSX.
Vista will bring some benefits, but most of these won't affect users directly. Nor are any of the new Vista benefits something that trumps Tiger, much less Leopard. I also expect to see a raft of problems with Vista and older hardware, frankly I'll advise everyone I know to stay the hell away from it for at least 6 months.

>>>More bs propanganda/MacFUD. I'm actually starting to hope that Vista kicks bloody a$$...wow...just to make Apple koolaid drinkers shut the f@$* up.

 

[FFTT]

jaduffy108

How much experience do you have working with OS X on a professional level?

 

[Aliquis]

Jaduffy,

No problem on the missunderstanding.

I also just wanted to quickly comment about bringing the film industry stuff into the conversation. The whole realm that we were talking about here is a computer user's question as to laptop choice.

Most of the comments (especially about stability) have all been in this arena. XP is, as many people have pointed out, or can be extremely problematic, with viruses, spyware, etc.

This is the arena that the discussion was focused in with their comments, and in those comments, they were correct. No one is arguing with you about the stability of Wintel machines setup and maintained by a *professional* and customized to function optimally within thay type of environment, being stable and fast. That's a given... (yet one could bring up numerous examples of Macs - G5s, and Xserves - in the same manner you have done... Like the film restoration project to render/cleanup the massive amounts of material for the Digitized Original StarWars Project) but that's beside the point.

So yes, my comment is that what you're speaking about is really relative as the area of discussion was: everyday computing, "is OSX worth it?", battery life, OS stability and maintenance -(not a professional user mind you), and video editing (for the price-can you put together a better editing system than Final Cut on a Powerbook? for the price mind you), and "Longhorn vs. [OSX]" (which was announced 3 or so full releases of OSX ago.)

K, that was a bit longer than intended. But yeah. It's great to talk about all the other stuff you've brought up, but I think maybe off base to do that in an arguementative tone. So great input Jaduffy for content, intention maybe not so much.

Does anyone else agree or think I'm missing something?

Thanks all.

 

[hulugu]

>>>More bs propanganda/MacFUD. I'm actually starting to hope that Vista kicks bloody a$$...wow...just to make Apple koolaid drinkers shut the f@$* up.

I've used both systems on a professional level and my experience makes me believe that XP is a mediocre OS. Since the OS is—unless you're a CLI user—the way of dealing with the system, thus it is important when comparing a Powerbook to a Dell—unless you're going to run Linux—in which case nevermind.
OSX is not the Holy Grail, there are lots of things that could be improved, but it is MHO that XP is not as good. It is also my opinion, considering the missing features, poor deployment of XP SP2, etc. that Vista will not be the Second Coming Windows acolytes hope it will be.
But that's just my humble, koolaid-laced opinion brought on by Jobs' Reality Distortion Field and just pure sillyness from using a toy that can't play games for all these years.