From what I understand, the USB controller has the same pin-outs so it should be a simple swapping of chips. Since this chip is on the motherboard that may require some significant production runup if they have stopped the line in anticipation for the next Major Revision. Not sure what AE takes but FW800 definitely has some overhead with the new connector and controller.
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PowerBook Updates -- As Early as Next Week?
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From what I understand, the USB controller has the same pin-outs so it should be a simple swapping of chips. Since this chip is on the motherboard that may require some significant production runup if they have stopped the line in anticipation for the next Major Revision. Not sure what AE takes but FW800 definitely has some overhead with the new connector and controller.
Actually, current broadband networks are almost up to the task of DVD-quality already. DSS systems use mpeg2 as well, and that is only about 3 Mbps (as opposed to DVD, which is generally 4-5 Mbps but can occasionally be substantially higher).
OTOH, for me bandwidth is like money. I can never have enough.
Even for others, I imagine more BW becomes especially handy if you want to share an internet connection with your family in your home using, say, airport extreme. Then having a good 25 Mbps connection becomes useful, even with the applications you listed.Yes, I agree that speed (and the need for it) is in the eye of the beholder. However, if you don't require speed and you don't get speed, you should not be required to pay a huge premium for it. So regardless of individual needs, any given Apple laptop should be (ought to be?) reasonably competitive with the rest of the industry. With the current state of the industry, I'd say that means the current powerbooks belong in the iBook price range. It would also be nice if Apple had a fast laptop deserving of the "powerbook" title and pricetag; and by that I'm not referring to the currently rumored machines.
...got this reply:
I disagree completely with soggywulf. If a new PowerBook does arrive at 1.3GHz it will be using the PPC/MPC 7457 and will most likely also have a 167MHz bus (up from the current 133MHz on the 15" -- and note that 167/133 = 1.26). Also, the MPC7457 has twice the L2 cache, or 512KB on chip (not "larger L3"). Given these changes I expect that the system would have a pretty linear increase in performance over the existing 1GHz, 15" PowerBook. It might not be exactly 30%, but I'd bet that it will be over 20% and then some. Of course, this assumes that they retain the 1MB of L3 cache, which given the increase in the L2 size may not happen (i.e. they may drop the L3 completely, since they may be able to get a very nice performance boost with just the larger L2, faster system bus, and possible 1.3 GHz processor speed). Dropping the L3 would also allow them to increase the battery life which is something that the PowerBook could definitely use.
So, if they __can__ deliver a 1.3GHz system and if at the same time they upgrade the graphics then I expect that this new (rumored) machine will have significantly improved performance (i.e. a very worthy upgrade).
As for the graphics, it seems that both the NVIDIA 5600 and the Radeon 9600 are in very short supply, so sadly it's possible that they will have to stick with either the existing Radeon 9000 or the NVIDIA 440 Go. That would be very unfortunate since either of these new GPUs could provide a huge increase in graphics performance (some tests on PCs indicate up to twice the performance of the previous generation GPUs).
In any case, if we get a 1.3GHz MPC7457 with a 167MHz bus, and an L3 cache, and a Radeon 9600 then it will be time to celebrate because this will be a very significant improvement over the current 15" PowerBook.
Before we all go bashing Apple for not giving us a better update to the PowerBooks, why don't we just wait and see what the do give us? Apple has *never* even said they are putting a 1.3 GHz 7457 in the PowerBooks...wouldn't we all feel foolish if after all this bitching, we end up with kick ass G5 PowerBooks with Radeon 9600 and DDR 400 RAM with all the goodies associated with it all in a slick new case and lower heat...I'm not saying this could ever happen, but just that Apple has never said a single thing about what they are doing with the next PowerBook, so we shouldn't get mad that they aren't doing enough to make them worthy upgrades.
Good advice, since this is all just rumor. However, it won't be a G5, at least not this year. I think you can be fairly certain that any new PowerBook speed bump will contain a MPC7457. However, what the final speed will be and when these systems will ship is obviously a different question. I think we can believe Apple when they say that the G4 will continue to play a significant role in their product offerings. A certainty in the iMac and eMac, and very likely for the PowerBooks (IMO) and eventually the iBooks.
Worthy Upgrades
Because Apple has a tendency to make quasi-sucky upgrades for portables. And because Apple's updated powerbooks have had feature lock for a very long time, they were supposed to be shipped by WWDC if it hadn't been for MOTO, so if the features didn't suck then, the suckage quotient is invariably higher by now, because Apple has *not* had time to redesign the powerbooks, they'll be lucky if they have enough time to slap the processors in and ship...
And those that complain realize this.
Jaedreth
Because Apple has a tendency to make quasi-sucky upgrades for portables. And because Apple's updated powerbooks have had feature lock for a very long time, they were supposed to be shipped by WWDC if it hadn't been for MOTO, so if the features didn't suck then, the suckage quotient is invariably higher by now, because Apple has *not* had time to redesign the powerbooks, they'll be lucky if they have enough time to slap the processors in and ship...
And those that complain realize this.
Jaedreth
OK, given the 133 on the 15, I'll grant you maybe 20% on the 15. About 5% on the others though. But in either case, it is more relevant to compare the existing and rumored machines with other machines that are currently available, not to what was previously available. On that scale, the rumored machines at the current price points fall short of a great deal. IMO.
The larger caches are not going to make that much of a difference. Really, caches make the biggest difference on benchmark tests where the code is tiny and artificially loads up the CPU without hitting memory. On real world apps, especially hi-power apps, and especially when running multiple apps, memory speed is where it's at. CPU's spend about 70% of their time with MOVE instructions, meaning moving data to and from memory. That gives an indication of how important memory bandwidth is.
"New" PBs
imagine it this way:
Steve and the Jobettes are just like sadistic ice cream men. the rumors that fly about represent that creepy music that draws kids out of their houses to follow the ice cream truck down the street. the WWDC represents your street. will the ice cream man ever stop as soon as he sees the first kid? hell, no. he always drags on and on until a good-sized crowd is on hand to see him work his "magic."
when mr. ice cream man finally does stop, however, there's no new ice cream in the truck! if anything, there's just the same old bomb pop that everyone has been selling since 1965, but with a new wrapper and it melts twice as fast. not only that, the going rate for this recycled frozen treat is a Haagen-Dazs price tag on a Kemps-quality ice-cube. of course, there are the new items that we all agree are worth the price of admission, but mostly, we get more of the same-old, same-old. i guess some days he's Willy Wonka and some days he's just that icky guy in a beat-up ice cream truck. Newton Cone anyone?
now, this is an extremely cynical view of Macs and off the mark, but there needs to be some explanation as to why we pay more than the WinSheep and get treated like kids following the empty ice cream truck. feel free to blast away...
Strings and mirrors, kids. Strings and mirrors.
imagine it this way:
Steve and the Jobettes are just like sadistic ice cream men. the rumors that fly about represent that creepy music that draws kids out of their houses to follow the ice cream truck down the street. the WWDC represents your street. will the ice cream man ever stop as soon as he sees the first kid? hell, no. he always drags on and on until a good-sized crowd is on hand to see him work his "magic."
when mr. ice cream man finally does stop, however, there's no new ice cream in the truck! if anything, there's just the same old bomb pop that everyone has been selling since 1965, but with a new wrapper and it melts twice as fast. not only that, the going rate for this recycled frozen treat is a Haagen-Dazs price tag on a Kemps-quality ice-cube. of course, there are the new items that we all agree are worth the price of admission, but mostly, we get more of the same-old, same-old. i guess some days he's Willy Wonka and some days he's just that icky guy in a beat-up ice cream truck. Newton Cone anyone?
now, this is an extremely cynical view of Macs and off the mark, but there needs to be some explanation as to why we pay more than the WinSheep and get treated like kids following the empty ice cream truck. feel free to blast away...
Strings and mirrors, kids. Strings and mirrors.
Frankly, that would be great. And I would feel vindicated, not foolish.
BTW, make that a 1.2 G5 with a 600 MHz bus and 500 MHz effective memory bandwidth, with dual-bank DDR266. All quite possible, mind you. As long as Apple can build the motherboard.
Re: "New" PBs
For each person the explanation will be different. Many, I suspect, have simply been mac users as long as they can remember and have become part of a social scene which, like the Jehovah's witnesses, is extremely unforgiving to those who leave the fold.
For me? The simple fact that I cannot find a well-made modern laptop elsewhere that will support all of its hardware under Unix. If an intel-based laptop with all linux-supported hardware were available and as sleek and modern as the PB, you can be sure I'd be there instead.
There always seems to be a break in the chain though - actually Toshiba's P25 17" laptop looks to have excellent linux support, but is a whopping 10 pounds. God, how I wish the G5 PB would come out.
For each person the explanation will be different. Many, I suspect, have simply been mac users as long as they can remember and have become part of a social scene which, like the Jehovah's witnesses, is extremely unforgiving to those who leave the fold.
For me? The simple fact that I cannot find a well-made modern laptop elsewhere that will support all of its hardware under Unix. If an intel-based laptop with all linux-supported hardware were available and as sleek and modern as the PB, you can be sure I'd be there instead.
There always seems to be a break in the chain though - actually Toshiba's P25 17" laptop looks to have excellent linux support, but is a whopping 10 pounds. God, how I wish the G5 PB would come out.
Apparently the Niagara/Mohawk power grid has failed as a result of IBM ramping up production of the PowerPC G5 chip for new PowerBook G5s at their Fishkill plant. Blackouts have resulted across central and eastern North America.
Do you think it was production, or the power required by a time machine to go 1 year into the future to get those.
Usually I am an optimist, but I am feeling pessimistic about G5 Powerbooks soon. I would love to be wrong..
Doubts about upgrades
I have serious doubts about UPG's. Apple CA are saying 7-10 business days for a 15" and 1-3 for 17". I didn't look at the 12". These ship times are somewhat faster than those posted earlier.
It would be nice to get a new PB, my old one is aging slightly, g4 400 and a whopping 8mb of video!!
I would love to see a g5, but then I woke up.
I have serious doubts about UPG's. Apple CA are saying 7-10 business days for a 15" and 1-3 for 17". I didn't look at the 12". These ship times are somewhat faster than those posted earlier.
It would be nice to get a new PB, my old one is aging slightly, g4 400 and a whopping 8mb of video!!
I would love to see a g5, but then I woke up.
Re: Doubts about upgrades
when I set up my order on tuesday, it said 3-5 days for the 12", but when I did order, the next day it told be shipping the 19th. conclusion: the estimate in your order is not always right (please don't ruin my hope of powerbook updates. . .)
when I set up my order on tuesday, it said 3-5 days for the 12", but when I did order, the next day it told be shipping the 19th. conclusion: the estimate in your order is not always right (please don't ruin my hope of powerbook updates. . .)
$27,485.00
$27,485.00. That's the total cost if you add every standard-build Mac model to your shopping cart at the Apple Store, except for XServe's.
Anyway, what I found was the 12" and 15" PB's are back-ordered (3-5 and 5-7 days respectively, but both delays put it past next Tuesday).
Also back-ordered is the last remaining G4 desktop (7-10 days), and (of course) all G5's. Everything else (iBooks, iMacs, 17" PB) is shipping same-day.
I found the back-ordered G4 interesting. I wonder if they'll cancel it once the G5 ships in volume.
I just checked XServe's, and they're all in stock. Add another $9,397.00 for them.
So if you walk into an Apple Store and ask for "one of everything", you'll know it'll be just shy of $37K...
$27,485.00. That's the total cost if you add every standard-build Mac model to your shopping cart at the Apple Store, except for XServe's.
Anyway, what I found was the 12" and 15" PB's are back-ordered (3-5 and 5-7 days respectively, but both delays put it past next Tuesday).
Also back-ordered is the last remaining G4 desktop (7-10 days), and (of course) all G5's. Everything else (iBooks, iMacs, 17" PB) is shipping same-day.
I found the back-ordered G4 interesting. I wonder if they'll cancel it once the G5 ships in volume.
I just checked XServe's, and they're all in stock. Add another $9,397.00 for them.
So if you walk into an Apple Store and ask for "one of everything", you'll know it'll be just shy of $37K...
Re: $27,485.00
I think they may let it hang on for awhile a la the original iMac for the laggards who still need to boot OS 9.
I think they may let it hang on for awhile a la the original iMac for the laggards who still need to boot OS 9.
speed bump and bye by for now for the 15", but new form factors for all 3 in January
Okay- i'll roll the dice...
Apple will not update the 15 inch. it will go bye bye- for now. The 12 and 17 will be the ones updated with the new chips and the 12 will get L3, the backlit keyboard, and FW 800. Both will sport upgraded Video cards and faster DVD burners.
But...In January, you'll see all three in a new shell with G5s.
Okay- i'll roll the dice...
Apple will not update the 15 inch. it will go bye bye- for now. The 12 and 17 will be the ones updated with the new chips and the 12 will get L3, the backlit keyboard, and FW 800. Both will sport upgraded Video cards and faster DVD burners.
But...In January, you'll see all three in a new shell with G5s.
Re: "New" PBs
You know, if you read this aloud, or mentally, in one of those deep, Haunted mansion meets Barry White voices, it is really scary.
Ok.
I think that PBG415 updates are long since overdue and will come soon regardless of Panther's status and speculations that it has been dropped from the line. It is an essential part of the line for those who want more power than the 12-inch but can't afford or store the 17-inch.
I also think that unfortunately G5s are not coming anytime soon.
If you look at the picture of the G5 tower when it's open, you'll see what I mean. The G5 sections are bigger than the 12 inch powerbook.
It would be nice, though.
The G5 tower is really big, if you haven't checked it out on the website.
So if the powerbooks get g5 upgrades, they'll weigh 15 pounds and still have to dock to get optical drive support, etc.
Let's just sit tight and see what happens, ok?
Congrats to all switchers. Welcome to the cause.
You know, if you read this aloud, or mentally, in one of those deep, Haunted mansion meets Barry White voices, it is really scary.
Ok.
I think that PBG415 updates are long since overdue and will come soon regardless of Panther's status and speculations that it has been dropped from the line. It is an essential part of the line for those who want more power than the 12-inch but can't afford or store the 17-inch.
I also think that unfortunately G5s are not coming anytime soon.
If you look at the picture of the G5 tower when it's open, you'll see what I mean. The G5 sections are bigger than the 12 inch powerbook.
It would be nice, though.
The G5 tower is really big, if you haven't checked it out on the website.
So if the powerbooks get g5 upgrades, they'll weigh 15 pounds and still have to dock to get optical drive support, etc.
Let's just sit tight and see what happens, ok?
Congrats to all switchers. Welcome to the cause.
Re: speed bump and bye by for now for the 15", but new form factors for all 3 in January
You may be right. I have said this for months. I think the 17-inch may come down to the price of where the 15-inch PBs are now - that's if that were to happen.
No way.