I never made such a claim. My response was to AidenShaw's comment regarding pump size. I was only commenting that pump size is not the real issue in trying to use cooligy type technology to cool the processor in a laptop. Airflow is.
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PowerMac and PowerBook Updates?
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I never made such a claim. My response was to AidenShaw's comment regarding pump size. I was only commenting that pump size is not the real issue in trying to use cooligy type technology to cool the processor in a laptop. Airflow is.
heatpipes haven't run out of steam 
Radiator size and airflow are the same issue for both heatpipe and Cooligy fluid cooling. (Let's ignore HSF in a laptop, since it appears that just about everyone is using heatpipes today.)
If you look at the Dell Latitude D600 heat assembly (below), this is handled by placing a fan that inhales from the side and bottom of the laptop, and blows out an opening in the back. The radiator sits between the fan and the opening, so that most of the airflow from the fan goes directly over the CPU radiator fins. A pair of heatpipes conduct the heat from the nearby CPU to the radiator. (In the diagram, you can see the open space between the fan and the louvers in the rear of the case - the radiator drops into that space.)
The AMD64 laptop cooler (below) is even more tightly coupled, with the blower attached to the radiator - but then it has to cool an 80 watt chip rather than a Pentium M (Centrino).
So, it seems the issues are:
Heatpipe advantages:
- passive, nothing to fail and no connections to leak
- reasonable efficiency
- proven over many years in millions of systems
Heatpipe disadvantages:
- radiator should be close to evaporator, restricts design choices
Cooligy advantages:
- higher efficiency, especially at the contact point with the CPU
- radiator and CPU can be separated by arbitrary distances
Cooligy disadvantages:
- the physical bulk of the pump and tubing
- active components add failure possibilities, tubing can leak
- untried new technology
- pump draws battery power
IMO, I'd be surprised to see Cooligy being used in a laptop - especially in an Apple laptop.
Perhaps it would be good for one of the "desktop replacements" which are already bulky and which use a 50watt to 80watt (or more) chip. Piping that heat to a bulky radiator/fan assembly could be good.
For the design goals for Apple (and mainstream PC portables), you're looking at a situation where battery life is going to dictate CPU power in the 10 watt to 20 watt range. Apple isn't going to put an 80watt chip in a Powerbook.
The goal to make the laptop small and thin is also going to argue against unnecessary bulk. Unless Apple decides to introduce big, hot "desktop replacement" systems - small and simple is an advantage.
Heatpipes are proven effective at cooling chips in laptops today - there doesn't seem to be an overwhelming need to change technologies.
Dell Centrino heat assembly (Latitude D600):
AMD64 heatpipe cooler (80 watt):
http://www.ixbt-labs.com/articles2/amd-athlon64-m/index.html (about the middle of the page)
Radiator size and airflow are the same issue for both heatpipe and Cooligy fluid cooling. (Let's ignore HSF in a laptop, since it appears that just about everyone is using heatpipes today.)
If you look at the Dell Latitude D600 heat assembly (below), this is handled by placing a fan that inhales from the side and bottom of the laptop, and blows out an opening in the back. The radiator sits between the fan and the opening, so that most of the airflow from the fan goes directly over the CPU radiator fins. A pair of heatpipes conduct the heat from the nearby CPU to the radiator. (In the diagram, you can see the open space between the fan and the louvers in the rear of the case - the radiator drops into that space.)
The AMD64 laptop cooler (below) is even more tightly coupled, with the blower attached to the radiator - but then it has to cool an 80 watt chip rather than a Pentium M (Centrino).
So, it seems the issues are:
Heatpipe advantages:
- passive, nothing to fail and no connections to leak
- reasonable efficiency
- proven over many years in millions of systems
Heatpipe disadvantages:
- radiator should be close to evaporator, restricts design choices
Cooligy advantages:
- higher efficiency, especially at the contact point with the CPU
- radiator and CPU can be separated by arbitrary distances
Cooligy disadvantages:
- the physical bulk of the pump and tubing
- active components add failure possibilities, tubing can leak
- untried new technology
- pump draws battery power
IMO, I'd be surprised to see Cooligy being used in a laptop - especially in an Apple laptop.
Perhaps it would be good for one of the "desktop replacements" which are already bulky and which use a 50watt to 80watt (or more) chip. Piping that heat to a bulky radiator/fan assembly could be good.
For the design goals for Apple (and mainstream PC portables), you're looking at a situation where battery life is going to dictate CPU power in the 10 watt to 20 watt range. Apple isn't going to put an 80watt chip in a Powerbook.
The goal to make the laptop small and thin is also going to argue against unnecessary bulk. Unless Apple decides to introduce big, hot "desktop replacement" systems - small and simple is an advantage.
Heatpipes are proven effective at cooling chips in laptops today - there doesn't seem to be an overwhelming need to change technologies.
Dell Centrino heat assembly (Latitude D600):
AMD64 heatpipe cooler (80 watt):
http://www.ixbt-labs.com/articles2/amd-athlon64-m/index.html (about the middle of the page)
Re: heatpipes haven't run out of steam
I suppose that was the point I was trying to make. While I can certainly see the potential for cooligy technology in servers, workstations , etc., I doubt there's much to be gained over technology currently in use in laptops given the current space and airflow constraints.
I suppose that was the point I was trying to make.
While I can certainly see the potential for cooligy technology in servers, workstations , etc., I doubt there's much to be gained over technology currently in use in laptops given the current space and airflow constraints.So I am reading macosrumors.net, and they seem damn confident that the new motorola chips are to be used in the next rev of pb's, which they say is literally around the corner.
But didn't the article say the chips wouldn't be ready for mass usage until 3-6 months from now? Wouldn't that be a bit long for the pbook updates?
And isn't macosrumors.net usually wrong?
But didn't the article say the chips wouldn't be ready for mass usage until 3-6 months from now? Wouldn't that be a bit long for the pbook updates?
And isn't macosrumors.net usually wrong?
PMac update sign
this promotion is the surest sign yet that they're trying to blow out their stock in preparation for updates:
Between February 25, 2004 through March 27,2004, customers must purchase qualifying Apple product(s) and additional RAM modules (sticks), in either 256MB, 512MB, or 1GB RAM modules (only DDR333 or DDR400 RAM modules qualify).
this promotion is the surest sign yet that they're trying to blow out their stock in preparation for updates:
Between February 25, 2004 through March 27,2004, customers must purchase qualifying Apple product(s) and additional RAM modules (sticks), in either 256MB, 512MB, or 1GB RAM modules (only DDR333 or DDR400 RAM modules qualify).
I disagree. They always have deals that go along with their comps. For example, the past couple months hav been buy a comp, get a epson printer. And I think before that it was something else too.
Point being, I dont think its a sure sign. And didn't the original articel say 3-6 months untl teh chips would be available?
Point being, I dont think its a sure sign. And didn't the original articel say 3-6 months untl teh chips would be available?
I pasted the text from the offer. There's a one-month window to get more RAM if you get a PowerMac. Apple isn't trying to sell RAM.
And, yes, there are no sure signs, it was bad language on my part, but I still believe it's a sign of upcoming updates.
And, yes, there are no sure signs, it was bad language on my part, but I still believe it's a sign of upcoming updates.
Re: G5 and pro audio noise
Actually, I wouldn't use the on board audio in/out either. Apparently there are significant issues with the dual G5s and ProTools systems, like the Digi002, which we run our studio on for external audio i/o. It is affecting FW interfaces and the analog audio outs on those boxes too.
See:
http://bmer.servemp3.com/g5/viewtopic.php?t=8
for an overview. I have heard about "Rev E" fixing things, but some Rev E upgraders have seen no change.
Not trying to create a sub-thread here, so anyone with a quiet dual G5 with external audio like a Digi002, please PM me and post to the bmer "Pro Audio" forum too. Thanks!!!
Actually, I wouldn't use the on board audio in/out either. Apparently there are significant issues with the dual G5s and ProTools systems, like the Digi002, which we run our studio on for external audio i/o. It is affecting FW interfaces and the analog audio outs on those boxes too.
See:
http://bmer.servemp3.com/g5/viewtopic.php?t=8
for an overview. I have heard about "Rev E" fixing things, but some Rev E upgraders have seen no change.
Not trying to create a sub-thread here, so anyone with a quiet dual G5 with external audio like a Digi002, please PM me
and post to the bmer "Pro Audio" forum too. Thanks!!!
Re: 970FX power hunger...
Note that the power requirements of Apple's hub chip/memory controller ASIC also needs to be taken into account. The one on the G5 PCB looks like it might be quite a bit more power hungry than the one in a G4 PowerBook.
Note that the power requirements of Apple's hub chip/memory controller ASIC also needs to be taken into account. The one on the G5 PCB looks like it might be quite a bit more power hungry than the one in a G4 PowerBook.
I agree, its a potential indicator of an update.
In the least I think Apple have a back log of RAM because most pros and those in the know go to Crucial.
Likely they want to shift it, a) because its no going to move fast enough without help and they need to reduce their holdings.
But possibly b), upgrades are going to use different RAM and such backlogs would be a real liability if that was going to happen.
It's interesting you say that...
I'm willing to assume Apple gets good discounts on RAM. Why do they price it so high?
Wouldn't it make more sense to be competitive with companies like Crucial and others? They would increase sales volume of ram, which in turn sends out more CPU's with more adequate RAM, which in turn makes people have faster machines, which in turn makes for happier initial purchases! All while still selling more product.
Thats just a though, but maybe they DO sell a bunch of overpriced RAM and make a killing at it. Who knows.
They are high because most people don't realise they can go to crucial or whatever. The RAM at time of purchase is one less hassle to worry about and people don't notice they are paying 4 times as much. Sure, Apple charge for the installation of the RAM but it's hardly rocket science is it. Easier than installing new batteries in any device.
Well it might just be profiteering on Apples part...I guess its a pretty good bet...shame really.
Dual 1.8 stock seems to be decreasing
Well, I've been mislead by following what's in stock before, but it seems interesting that in the G5 lineup the current model that's lagging seems to be the dual 1.8.
Makes sense - the dual 2.0 might not be discontinued, but shifted to be the new middle (or new low end, depending on the speed increase).
Also, the single 1.8 might become the new low end at $1699 - it's funny how many of these single 1.8's have started showing up again after disappearing from stock for so long. People have talked about that they are just the clearing of inventory, but it seems like an AWFUL lot of 4-5 month old inventory to be clearing, and they seem to be increasing rather than decreasing in numbers. So either Apple is trying to get rid of excess inventory of 1.8 CPUs, or else it may be the new low end model.
But back to the dual 1.8 - seems that this unit will be discontinued in the new line up, so the drop in stocks before an upgrade makes sense...
http://www.macprices.com/powermactracker.shtml
Well, I've been mislead by following what's in stock before, but it seems interesting that in the G5 lineup the current model that's lagging seems to be the dual 1.8.
Makes sense - the dual 2.0 might not be discontinued, but shifted to be the new middle (or new low end, depending on the speed increase).
Also, the single 1.8 might become the new low end at $1699 - it's funny how many of these single 1.8's have started showing up again after disappearing from stock for so long. People have talked about that they are just the clearing of inventory, but it seems like an AWFUL lot of 4-5 month old inventory to be clearing, and they seem to be increasing rather than decreasing in numbers. So either Apple is trying to get rid of excess inventory of 1.8 CPUs, or else it may be the new low end model.
But back to the dual 1.8 - seems that this unit will be discontinued in the new line up, so the drop in stocks before an upgrade makes sense...
http://www.macprices.com/powermactracker.shtml
Another PowerBook G5 rumor
The French rumor site "Croquer dans la pomme" (http://croquer.free.fr) reports that Apple is ahead of schedule on the development on the PowerBook G5.
Apparently it is about to reach qualifying with delivery expected 8-12 weeks from now.
The French rumor site "Croquer dans la pomme" (http://croquer.free.fr) reports that Apple is ahead of schedule on the development on the PowerBook G5.
Apparently it is about to reach qualifying with delivery expected 8-12 weeks from now.
Re: Another PowerBook G5 rumor
Do you know how reliable they are? They seem to be pretty certain of their 'facts'. Whatever that means...
Do you know how reliable they are? They seem to be pretty certain of their 'facts'. Whatever that means...
You heard it her first - may
Now, I don't (want to) believe http://croquer.free.fr .
My bet is for Jobs making it to the press conference outside the San Francisco Apple Store to announce the new PowerBook I'll order minutes later.
Pierre
Now, I don't (want to) believe http://croquer.free.fr .
My bet is for Jobs making it to the press conference outside the San Francisco Apple Store to announce the new PowerBook I'll order minutes later.
Pierre
Re: You heard it her first - may
Drum roll please....
Originally posted by pierre74
Now, I don't (want to) believe http://croquer.free.fr .
My bet is for Jobs making it to the press conference outside the San Francisco Apple Store to announce the new PowerBook I'll order minutes later.
Pierre
Drum roll please....
If Jobs announces it at wwdc on teh 28th of june, will it really be available that day to purchase, or is there usually a small waiting period? And if there is a wait, how long until it can be purchased, not shipped or received, but purchased?
Thanks.
Thanks.