PowerMac G4 Cube CPU, VRM, L3 upgrades

[flyproductions]

yeah I dont think it would be a problem to post them at this point! someone should probably add them along with your 6600 ROMs to the MacElite page so there all safe and in one place with all the rest of the ROMs (speaking of which your 6800 Non GT ROM link is bad there)

...so here they come!

The "how to..." in the 5200 folder might look a bit distorted, depending on one's finder view settings when opening the folder as it is put in there in form of folder names/labels (not my work!). But nobody here should need this anyway. Also, as single files, Arti's ROM for the ASUS Video Suite Dual DVI and the one for the Geforce 6800xt i have.

Is there still anybody here who has administrator's privileges on the Wiki?

 

[flyproductions]

some other ATI cards also produce VGA only output when flashed like the FireGL X1 and Radeon 9600, 9800 XT (when flashed with a Mac 9800 XT ROM), all depends on how the port mapping in ROM (and for ATI Cards the OS's frame buffer personality as well) matches up with the cards physical port layout

Motivated by how relatively easy it was to get the 7950's second DVI to work by patching the Hamachi framebuffer inside the AMD7000Controller.kext, i was thinking there could be a similar way to get a flashed X800's DVI to work after all this years. Would make a nice card for G5s as, if it comes to brute force in older shaders, even kicks a 7800 GS's a##. Outputted i. e. the highest result i have ever seen for an AGP-card in OpenMark, even outperforming an Gainward Bliss.

So i was looking for some similar structure inside Leopard's ATIRadeon9700.kext, which drives the X800, but coul not find anything. Does anybody know if the port mapping/connector type definition of the ATI AGP cards is also done by framebuffers inside the kext or is it in this case managed within the card's fCode ROM?

Problem might be that, while there is a Mac version of the 9800pro with the same layout as the PC card, the only Mac version of the X800 has ADC where the PC-card's DVI sits and DVI on the upper port. Following this, it fits, that flashed Fire GL X3s have working DVI at least on the upper connector.

 

[Amethyst1]

Problem might be that, while there is a Mac version of the 9800pro with the same layout as the PC card, the only Mac version of the X800 has ADC where the PC-card's DVI sits and DVI on the upper port. Following this, it fits, that flashed Fire GL X3s have working DVI at least on the upper connector.

ADC is just single-link DVI plus power and USB so would it behave differently to a DVI port?

 

[flyproductions]

ADC is just single-link DVI plus power and USB so would it behave differently to a DVI port?

The problem is, how it would be identified in a potential frambuffer for the X800. For flashed X800s, analog on the lower (DVI-)connector, where the Mac-card has ADC, works. But digital does not.

In framebuffers like the Hamachi for the 7950 "10 00 00 00" (hex) is for VGA/analog. "04 00 00 00" for Dual-Link and "00 02 00 00" for Single-Link DVI. In Theorie there should be a similar definiton for the digital part of the ADC-connector. So replacing this with i. e. "04 00 00 00" should activate Dual-Link DVI on this port. At least for the 7950 it worked like this. But i have yet to find, where this definitions ar made in the PPC kexts. If at all.

 

[LightBulbFun]

Motivated by how relatively easy it was to get the 7950's second DVI to work by patching the Hamachi framebuffer inside the AMD7000Controller.kext, i was thinking there could be a similar way to get a flashed X800's DVI to work after all this years. Would make a nice card for G5s as, if it comes to brute force in older shaders, even kicks a 7800 GS's a##. Outputted i. e. the highest result i have ever seen for an AGP-card in OpenMark, even outperforming an Gainward Bliss.

So i was looking for some similar structure inside Leopard's ATIRadeon9700.kext, which drives the X800, but coul not find anything. Does anybody know if the port mapping/connector type definition of the ATI AGP cards is also done by framebuffers inside the kext or is it in this case managed within the card's fCode ROM?

Problem might be that, while there is a Mac version of the 9800pro with the same layout as the PC card, the only Mac version of the X800 has ADC where the PC-card's DVI sits and DVI on the upper port. Following this, it fits, that flashed Fire GL X3s have working DVI at least on the upper connector.

I think the better way to do this on PPC macs is to change the OpenFirmware device tree properties, this way you dont have to modify OS X in any way, and you can write it into an NVRAMRC script

I experimented with this with my iBook G3 Radeon Mobility 7500, and successfully got OS X to think it was an X800 XT and utterly broke all display outputs because obviously none of the port mapping matched at all

nor did the disk based NDRV load of course since the the X800 XT is an add in card with it built into ROM rather then built into disk that onboard cards rely on and the disk based NDRV's load based on the personality name

and I think NDRV's may play a part here on PPC Macs with regards to OS port mapping (because theres 2 stages of port mapping, mapping at the firmware level and mapping at the OS level, so you can have it where the firmware has no ports that line up so you get no boot screen but then it comes to life once the OS maps in its own frame-buffer)

ADC is just single-link DVI plus power and USB so would it behave differently to a DVI port?

The problem is, how it would be identified in a potential frambuffer for the X800. For flashed X800s, analog on the lower (DVI-)connector, where the Mac-card has ADC, works. But digital does not.

In framebuffers like the Hamachi for the 7950 "10 00 00 00" (hex) is for VGA/analog. "04 00 00 00" for Dual-Link and "00 02 00 00" for Single-Link DVI. In Theorie there should be a similar definiton for the digital part of the ADC-connector. So replacing this with i. e. "04 00 00 00" should activate Dual-Link DVI on this port. At least for the 7950 it worked like this. But i have yet to find, where this definitions ar made in the PPC kexts. If at all.

the problem here is not the ADC port, but the port mapping is the issue in that

an ADC port can map to a physical DVI port no problems as @Amethyst1 says its just DVI with USB and Power running along it

the issue is simply that its the Dual link DVI port that so happens to match up physically with the PC Cards single link DVI Port

its expecting an external TMDS transmitter thats simply not there thus no DVI, but the VGA part has nothing to do with the external TMDS transmitter and is passed through without issue

if things mapped the other way round, the Dual link DVI port to the VGA port and the ADC port to the DVI port then it would of worked, but alas we are not that lucky


however for example this is how Both ports on your Radeon 9000 Pro PCI still work, because it so happens that the internal TMDS port maps to the DVI port and the external TMDS port goes to the VGA port where the missing TMDS transmitter makes no difference

the Radeon 9000 Pro got lucky in that regard


and same for the FireGL X3 the ADC port of the X800 XT/X850 XT ROM maps happily to the FireGL X3's single link DVI port

 

[flyproductions]

the issue is simply that its the Dual link DVI port that so happens to match up physically with the PC Cards single link DVI Port

So these X800s, even an xt PE, only have Single-Link-DVI? In this case it would not be worth any hassle at all. 😕

Edit: Googled a bit for this, and, yes, the DVI output of those X800 xt, gt, xt PE, whatever, PC-cards seems to be only Single-Link. So, as even a 6600GT in NV land offers Dual-Link support, i would not spend any more time to this.

 

[LightBulbFun]

So these X800s, even an xt PE only have Single-Link-DVI? In this case it would not be worth any hassle at all. 😕

indeed all PC AGP X800/X850 cards are single link DVI only


I think a better proposition in this case would be to see if the Mac ROM can be tweaked to match the timings of the Infineon RAM cards, so they can be flashed without major down-clocking

since theres actually a shed load more of those on eBay then there are PC X800/X850's funnily enough, and they obviously have better outputs anyway

NEW ATI FireGL Fire GL X3 AGP Grafikkarte 377846-002HP Spare P/N 404563-001 | eBay UK

HP PN: 377846-002. HP SPN: 404563-001. NEW ATI FireGL Fire GL X3 AGP Grafikkarte. ATI FireGL Fire GL X3 AGP. Kann geflashed werden, dann kann sie benutzt werden wie eine ATI Radeon X800 XT Mac Edition.

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[flyproductions]

I think a better proposition in this case would be to see if the Mac ROM can be tweaked to match the timings of the Infineon RAM cards, so they can be flashed without major down-clocking

Can't this be done just comparing hex, like for the NV-Roms? maybe with some help of RaBit or RadEdit on the PC-Side.

since theres actually a shed load more of those on eBay then there are PC X800/X850's funnily enough, and they obviously have better outputs anyway

NEW ATI FireGL Fire GL X3 AGP Grafikkarte 377846-002HP Spare P/N 404563-001 | eBay UK

HP PN: 377846-002. HP SPN: 404563-001. NEW ATI FireGL Fire GL X3 AGP Grafikkarte. ATI FireGL Fire GL X3 AGP. Kann geflashed werden, dann kann sie benutzt werden wie eine ATI Radeon X800 XT Mac Edition.

www.ebay.co.uk

Yes, 45 Euros would be ok for a card like that. Do the do at least dual displays with DVI?

 

[LightBulbFun]

Can't this be done just comparing hex, like for the NV-Roms? maybe with some help of RaBit or RadEdit on the PC-Side.

Yes, 45 Euros would be ok for a card like that. Do the do at least dual displays with DVI?

maybe? this is where Id tag you normally

indeed Both DVI ports function as they should and together

(I have heard that the X800 XT Mac edition was developed from the FireGL X3 board so it makes sense that everything works as well as it does on the FireGL X3)

 

[flyproductions]

(I have heard that the X800 XT Mac edition was developed from the FireGL X3 board so it makes sense that everything works as well as it does on the FireGL X3)

So the FireGL X3 has one external TMDS too? (like the Mac Edition) Meaning one of the DVIs would be Dual-Link. This would make a really nice card for AGP G5s..for 45 Euros!

 

[LightBulbFun]

So the FireGL X3 has one external TMDS too? (like the Mac Edition) Meaning one of the DVIs would be Dual-Link. This would make a really nice card for AGP G5s..for 45 Euros!

indeed its one Single link DVI port and one Dual link DVI port thats what made them always quite sought after by us Mac people, they flash perfectly into G4 compatible versions of the X800 XT, and if you get handy with a soldering iron even an X850 XT

EEPROM replacement and flashing X850 XT ROM on FireGL X3

So a few days ago a bunch of new soldering equipment i ordered arrived (mostly for another big project that ill be undertaking once that main part for that arrives) and one of the things i wanted to do with this was solder a larger (128K) ROM chip to my FireGL X3 and flash it with an X850XT ROM...

forums.macrumors.com

(you can stick em in a G5 no problems, but the main appeal is being regular AGP they work in G4's as well, for the most part, they are quite hit and miss when it comes to DA/QS's!)

 

[flyproductions]

...and if you get handy with a soldering iron even an X850 XT

Did this to the xt PE i have, just to flash it to X800 Mac even before these reduced ROMs have been available at all.

(you can stick em in a G5 no problems, but the main appeal is being regular AGP they work in G4's as well, for the most part, they are quite hit and miss when it comes to DA/QS's!)

Hmmm, maybe, i do not have enough graphics cards? 😂

No. Sure nice. But in the AGP G5 i have one of these nice blue PCB/copper cooler BfG 7800 GSs, wich i like very much there. Not just because it is not red. And in the Quicksilver the passively cooled 6600 GT which also does Dual-Link. And, as you mentioned, it is questionable if the Fire GL would work there at all. QS were known to not like the X800.

 

[flyproductions]

Hi folks, looking to polish my rework skills and have no better torture subject than my G4 Cube. Probably want to do the whole works: CPU, VRM, L3 Cache, etc...

Concerning „the whole work“ when it comes to upgrading the G4 Cube, there is one aspect very rarely mentioned even beeing one of the most important features of a computer today: Wireless connectivity.

The Cube's is abysmal! The AirPort-card is a piece of worthless crap these days. Beeing not even WEP-compatible, it offers +/- 2 Mbps connection "speed". And - with USB 1 - all this USB-dongles will not get one much further. Even the max. 4 Mbps will not play Youtube or stream any movie in XBMC (KODI).

So, looking for a solution, i felt a bit on my own. And here is, what i did:
Just slapped a complete one of these pocket routers into the gap between the HD departement and the optical drive! 😎

If a notebook formfactor drive is used, the TP-Link WR902AC makes a perfect fit. It can be put into "client mode", which gives the look and feel of beeing directly connected to the home WIFI's main router via cable.

Just some connections have to be made:

In front is the antenna. Behind the power, which is Mini-USB on the routers side and connected to 5 volts of Cube's Molex. And on the left the network cable, which is the only part, beeing visible from the outside.

Goes out the (empty) modem opening and then connects to the Ethernet port. Sure, a more elegant all internal option would be soldering a short cable directly to the network-daughtercard. But as it is on the lower side, not really beeing visible, i found it aceptable like that and much less hassle.

As there was hassle, which could not be as easily avoided, on the other end: In the Cube's case, which is a perfect shielding, connection to the antenna was mandatory. This was even worse as this router does not offer some external antenna connector. A cable from Aliexpress, which could connect to a maintanance port on the Back of the PCB helped in this case. On the outside i just used the Cube's AirPort antenna with a matching cable soldered in.

Alltogether, given some strong WIFI, this provides up to 45 Mbps, which would be ok to even stream full HD video...if only the Cube could play it. But 720p works fine in most cases, Youtube as well as XBMC. So i would call it one of the more useful things i did to one of my favorite Macs. Just "the better AirPort-card"! 😁

 

[dextructor]

Sure, a more elegant all internal option would be soldering a short cable directly to the network-daughtercard. But as it is on the lower side, not really beeing visible, i found it aceptable like that and much less hassle.

I remember being amazed on your posts of the cube forum, and even needing to use a translator, the quality of your work and love for the Cube inspired me a lot. I already made the connector, but since that I installed Ethernet cable through the house, but still a great addition.

 

[Vega20]

Concerning „the whole work“ when it comes to upgrading the G4 Cube, there is one aspect very rarely mentioned even beeing one of the most important features of a computer today: Wireless connectivity.

The Cube's is abysmal! The AirPort-card is a piece of worthless crap these days. Beeing not even WEP-compatible, it offers +/- 2 Mbps connection "speed". And - with USB 1 - all this USB-dongles will not get one much further. Even the max. 4 Mbps will not play Youtube or stream any movie in XBMC (KODI).

So, looking for a solution, i felt a bit on my own. And here is, what i did:
Just slapped a complete one of these pocket routers into the gap between the HD departement and the optical drive! 😎

View attachment 2081213

If a notebook formfactor drive is used, the TP-Link WR902AC makes a perfect fit. It can be put into "client mode", which gives the look and feel of beeing directly connected to the home WIFI's main router via cable.

Just some connections have to be made:

View attachment 2081222

In front is the antenna. Behind the power, which is Mini-USB on the routers side and connected to 5 volts of Cube's Molex. And on the left the network cable, which is the only part, beeing visible from the outside.

View attachment 2081226

Goes out the (empty) modem opening and then connects to the Ethernet port. Sure, a more elegant all internal option would be soldering a short cable directly to the network-daughtercard. But as it is on the lower side, not really beeing visible, i found it aceptable like that and much less hassle.

As there was hassle, which could not be as easily avoided, on the other end: In the Cube's case, which is a perfect shielding, connection to the antenna was mandatory. This was even worse as this router does not offer some external antenna connector. A cable from Aliexpress, which could connect to a maintanance port on the Back of the PCB helped in this case. On the outside i just used the Cube's AirPort antenna with a matching cable soldered in.

View attachment 2081252

Alltogether, given some strong WIFI, this provides up to 45 Mbps, which would be ok to even stream full HD video...if only the Cube could play it. But 720p works fine in most cases, Youtube as well as XBMC. So i would call it one of the more useful things i did to one of my favorite Macs. Just "the better AirPort-card"! 😁

That's amazing! I personally use a 1st Gen Airport Express as a wireless bridge but this is far more sleek. Just to make sure you soldered the coax cable to where the original wireless input was on the antenna, correct? The AC750 is only 30€ which is great. Will totally add it to the upgrade queue, thanks mate!

I remember being amazed on your posts of the cube forum, and even needing to use a translator, the quality of your work and love for the Cube inspired me a lot. I already made the connector, but since that I installed Ethernet cable through the house, but still a great addition.

That forum looks like a treasure trove of PPC info and upgrades, will check it out!
Edit: Just noticed @flyproductions is a mod, no idea why that didn't click earlier lol....

 

[Vega20]

Performancewise, the card is by a small margin stronger than a Radeon 9800pro, but some more modern architecture. But absolutely not working as an every day/normal use solution. ...as the 9700/9800s are! All i ever heard of so far where running in the PowerLogix enclosure (which imho is esthetically a big step backwards but provides better cooling). Some of them even had their own external powersupply.

I forgot to ask, have you had any luck finding a PowerCube/ClearCube enclosure? I have relentlessly searched since OWC pulled them in 2007-2008 or so with minimal luck. It's appeared on jp.mercari.com once or twice years ago but nothing since. The superior cooling honestly sounds better than my cracked chassis but it's probably like the GeForce 3, a ludicrously rare part for ludicrously high prices hahahaha.

 

[flyproductions]

That's amazing! I personally use a 1st Gen Airport Express as a wireless bridge but this is far more sleek. Just to make sure you soldered the coax cable to where the original wireless input was on the antenna, correct?

Yes. After opening the (also soldered together) shielding box it's obvious: two solder points. One for shield and one for the antenna itself. But the harder part is to get an external antenna connector to the TP-Link. My first one i trashed by trying to solder the cable directly to the PCB, demolishing the 2.4Ghz part in the process, due to my "excellent" soldering skills. After getting a bit deeper into things i was more lucky with the second attempt. But this included finding a very rare cable on Aliexpress. There is no antenna connector even internally. But on the backside of the PCB there is a MS156C port.

This is not exactly ment to attache antennas, but more for diagnose purposes. But it works for antenna connections too. There are even guys, selling solutions to extend the range of Fritz!-boxes, using this very port. The problem is, that almost all of the available plugs to connect to this port are nearly 2 centimeters in height, while the TP-Link only offers less than 5 millimeters of space.

The only cable i could find, matching the requirements, meaning having a flat right angeled connector to the port, was this one...

...with a standard SMA-femal connector at the other end. Don't get fooled by the usual IPEX-look of the connector. It is not! Disadvantage of this cable to the long/high plugs is that it does not get any physical hold to the connector. But in this case no problem as, with the PCB in place, there is just no room to "escape". It is firmly hold in place by the bottom of the box. So it is the ideal part. Only problem is findig one. As mentioned, i got mine from Aliexpress. But at the moment, the only offer i could find with a quick Google-search was this one. But maybe, they reappear on Ali too.

Another problem is to get into the TP-Link at all, as it is glued together and obviously not ment to be opened by the user. That's where patience and a spudger/flat screwdriver are your friends. An inside view, to know where the vulnerable parts are, might help too.

That forum looks like a treasure trove of PPC info and upgrades, will check it out!
Edit: Just noticed @flyproductions is a mod, no idea why that didn't click earlier lol....

Yes, the sadly years ago passed away founder of the forum once made me a mod. But i didn't ever "moderate" much over there. 😉

 

[flyproductions]

Now, if only i could get my hands on one more of the Cube's ethernet-cards, i would try to swap it's 90º angeled port to one of these. This would face straight upwards just besides the RAM-slots and should leave enough space on top to connect the very tiny network-cable coming from the TP-Link. So everything would be completely internal then. It would cost the external ethernet port. But that wouldn't be needed after anyway.

 

[Jiggly Billy]

if the OP does not mind doing a VRM move then the Radeon 9000 and GeForce4 MX are options as well (and if he gets the aforementioned VRM upgrade from Japan then he does not have to even worry about this!)

also another one for the plug and play list is the original OEM ATI Radeon, this was even a BTO option on the G4 cube

You'll still need to move the VRM with an R9000 & 4MX, I know, I've tried even with my artmix VRM

The original Radeon that was for the Cube just turned out to be a R7000 or R7500 (can't remember which) with a pre-fab'd faceplate, which was nice.

 

[Amethyst1]

The original Radeon that was for the Cube just turned out to be a R7000 or R7500 (can't remember which) with a pre-fab'd faceplate, which was nice.

Are you referring to the Radeon available as an OEM option? I thought that was a “7200”, i.e. original model.

 

[flyproductions]

Sure, a more elegant all internal option would be soldering a short cable directly to the network-daughtercard.

Found a little different solution now. So here it finally is! 😊

...my prototype of the Cube's ethernet-card for "internal" connection...

...mounted to the mainboard and ready for testing. To avoid this...

So nothing of the 45 Mbit-wireless-connectivity will be visible from the outside anymore! Except the missing external ethernet port.

 

[flyproductions]

A nice internal connection...

...and the IO-side looking so much cleaner now!

No Modem. No Ethernet. And - in the first place - no cables! 😃

 

[Amethyst1]

And - in the first place - no cables! 😃

Until you connect monitor, keyboard and mouse.

 

[flyproductions]

Until you connect monitor, keyboard and mouse.

For keyboard and mouse there is a bluetooth dongle.

Just have to find solutions for wireless power in and video out. 😝