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PowerMac G4 Fun! Part 2!
- Thread starter LightBulbFun
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Can you set OF resolution to something like 1680×1050 and check if that works? That friend of mine sent me a screenshot of 1.2v3 and OS X DP3 running at 1680×1050 but that might have used the beige's onboard video.
I'm curious to try seeing if the special Sawtooth version of Mac OS 8.6 can boot also on an MDD. What you did there was to change the "cpu-version" property on OF to 7400, right? Would you mind sharing the exact OF commands in the correct order, for OF-noobs like myself?
It's fascinating how there was a G4-compatible version of 8.6 at all, since the Mac OS kernel developer of the time said full G4 and AltiVec support was only finally available with Mac OS 9. IIRC he also said the Mac OS kernel was also a full pre-emptively-multitasking kernel since 8.6 (so 8.6 is really closer to Mac OS 9 than 8.5 in some ways), although, for the sake of compatibility, the whole Finder etc. is run under a single task (within the pre-emptively-multitasked kernel) that is held within the cooperative multitasking environment Mac OS was known for.
Anyway, I hear some VERY specific audio equipment only works in Mac OS 8.6 maximum, and someone wanted to get 8.6 working for it (IIRC) at MacOS9Lives, so testing to see if we can get 8.6 on an MDD, our almighty G4, would be great. If this worked on a QuickSilver, then I expect this to work here, too...
Was that me and my quest to get the SEK'D Prodif96 Pro working on Mac?
That quest started in getting me my first Sawtooth to be able to natively boot into OS8.
After that didn't work i got me a B/W G3 Desktop...until this day it's not working on Mac but it works nice in Windows 2000 and i have a growing collection of vintage Mac's.
That quest started in getting me my first Sawtooth to be able to natively boot into OS8.
After that didn't work i got me a B/W G3 Desktop...until this day it's not working on Mac but it works nice in Windows 2000 and i have a growing collection of vintage Mac's.
I guess that's a side-effect of the G4s being rushed out the door in mid-1999
Similar to e.g. the G5 version of Jaguar.
you can indeed Boot Mac OS 8.6 on an MDD has to be a FW400 one (or a FW800 machine with a FW400 BootROM) heres an example from my Mac OS 8.6 thread
your OF commands like good, (I would recommend doing boot cd:,\\:tbxi instead of mac-boot. also keep in mind the OF changes are volatile ie they will reset once you reboot/reset the machine)
but you do need a Sawtooth 8.6 install, as thats the latest 8.6 image and contains the most up to date uninorth drivers. the install CD image i found on the internet is called sawtooth_8.6_restore&Install.zip
fun fact this also works on MDDs
for an MDD, substitute PowerBook2,1 for PowerMac3,1 (I suspect 8.6 could also be made to work on GigE DA and QS G4s but i sadly dont own any of those)
Also, I encourage the efforts towards booting 10.0.4 Server on all these PowerMac G4 models, MDD or otherwise. Would be lovely to go further beyond (further back?) with X Server 1.2v3 and the Kodiaks, but I guess that is pretty undoable... (Or, is it?)
Honestly, my hunger is enough to want to see System 7.5.5 and the Copland alpha running on G4s (lol), with AltiVec support being ignored. Too bad that hunger is far beyond what I can do today (and probably ever)!
Honestly, my hunger is enough to want to see System 7.5.5 and the Copland alpha running on G4s (lol), with AltiVec support being ignored. Too bad that hunger is far beyond what I can do today (and probably ever)!
Why Server? I'd start with build 4S10 for the Quicksilver as that's the latest Cheetah AFAIK.
Oh, my bad, I somehow assumed 4S10 was a Server build.
If it came with the QuickSilver, then I have great hopes. At worst, it might require using the ATA-66 (instead of ATA-100) connection of the MDD to boot with, just like the case with Mac OS 8.6, I'd expect.
That will never happen.. those are too old to run on G4. I am not sure how the G4 would interpret those OSs ?
7.5.5 (or was it only 7.6.1?) works with very speedy G3 upgrades. I get the impression that if AltiVec was somehow disabled before the OS is booted, there might be a chance to boot systems that predate 8.6 with G4s.
Might actually be possible within what we know. You just need to try, by using the SawTooth version of 8.6 and changing things in OF accordingly (or use a custom Mac OS ROM file that LightBulbFun prepared). Thread link.
you dont need to disable altivec or something
Mac OS 7.5.3 will happily boot on a PowerSurge Mac with a 1Ghz 7455 Sonnet CPU if you wanted to
the OS just ignores what it does not recognise/use
Maybe a simple cpu-version spoof to 603 or G3 shall suffice then, hopefully...
Not like I have one of those System 7 machines to test with. (Been wanting a Daystar Millenium for a while. I kinda like the thought of a theoretical 4 x 7448
No idea if interposer boards would be enough to take care of that, but the biggest problem is finding a Daystar or any other 4-CPU Mac at all. We could use Mac "clone" schematics, too...)
Maybe a simple cpu-version spoof to 603 or G3 shall suffice then, hopefully...
Not like I have one of those System 7 machines to test with. (Been wanting a Daystar Millenium for a while. I kinda like the thought of a theoretical 4 x 7448
no you dont need to spoof anything LOL
stuff this old does not have any halt on unknown CPU nonsense
So, it is possible then that a 2002-2003 PB G4 1Ghz titanium can boot into 8.6 ? Of what advantage is 8.6 over 9.2.2 ? I never used 8.6 before and the original 350 sawtooth I bought in 2000 did NOT come with 8.6, it came with OS 9 - I checked the original serial number.
I can try to get it to work on PowerBook 3,5 abs report the results - I think I have the sawtooth 8.6 install/restore disc.
According to thorough testing from MacTron from MacOS9Lives, not even that. Not sure about the RAM, but speed was greatly bumped up with 9.2.x, bringing it back to "8.6 levels", beating it or losing to it here and there in speed (more of the former than the latter, according to him). All this while retaining all the stability, extra features & other misc improvements from 9.x (9.1 in particular).
He used the same system extensions etc. whenever possible (and the most up-to-date extensions, which is very important -- OS 9.2.2 is not the same unless everything is truly maxed, AFAIK). Also same machine (Sawtooth), disk etc.:
So in short, it's very hard to justify 8.6 over 9.2.2, other than compatibility with extremely specific devices/software (the other way around is more common). But of course, the biggest reason is the novelty factor. Or to experiment with it to see what else it may offer that maybe 9 does not, if anything. (Different "About this Mac" screen?)
Most remember 8.6 fondly as fast (and stable) because OS 9 did slow down and was more broken with the 9.0.x subfamily, and also because the default OS 9 package is bigger and more loaded, which understandably would leave such an impression. In truth, you can manually remove anything extra you don't want (the original Mac OS is very modular), or add new things, and the speed results should be about the same as MacTron tested, on an equivalent setup between 8.6 and 9.2.2.
More testing is always welcome, though, of course. My knowledge could very well be incomplete, or wrong somewhere for all we know.
(Also, I see that this screenshot already answers my question I made in another thread about the Radeon 8500 in OS 8.6.)
heres a picture of the CPU card, I plan to figure out the core voltage dip switches and see just how far I can clock this puppy!
View attachment 934746
I can't help but notice that it has pads for another processor and its accompanying passives... 🤔
The trick would be figuring out which resistors would need to be stuffed/unstuffed to enable the second processor; but, I mean, dual 7448s? How cool would that be? 😊
So, a slight tangent, what you're saying is, if one were stuck in a position where they couldn't run 9.2, but could run 8.6 and 9.0, 8.6 would be the way to go? Makes me feel like I may need to retool an emulator or two.
But, considering the way OS 9 was being treated at the end, it's kind of amazing they left it in such a good state. A certain very official funeral comes to mind which makes it easy to picture a world where they just left it slow and bloated.
yeah I have looked at these cards and wondered
in theory it would be possible, but we would really need schematics and BOM to know exactly where what and how to stuff each component
(or some careful reverse engineering and comparisons with a preexisting fully populated dual CPU version of this card)
but in this particular case my Sawtooth is a Uninorth 1 Revision 3 machine, so is (sadly) incompatible with dual processor cards
but it means that this 2Ghz 7448 single CPU card is the fastest CPU I can stuff into this machine and im pleased to have been able to max it out like this
as this sawtooth was my first PowerPC Mac so im pleased to have been able to give it a few treats! I just need to get it an ATI Raden 9800 Pro 256MB Card to really max out (fastest video card that will fit)
but those generally are not very cheap these days sadly!
I was wondering if you have any updates for this thread. It sounds like you have a complete collection of G4 models up to the top-of-the-line MDD. Were you able to overclock the 7448 any further? Any luck figuring out the NVRAM script? Any developments with the L3 on the Quicksilver?
Anyway, interesting thread you have here...