Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

mathiasr

macrumors regular
Mar 20, 2003
105
0
Strasbourg, France
Re: The G5 is already out?

Originally posted by socokid
Just a curious post in the Apple FAQ part.

post link

On the other hand the PowerPC is far from being a dead product line, Motorola announced the new PowerPC 5xx family aimed at extreme temperatures environments.

http://www.motorola.com/mediacenter/news/detail/0,1958,2555_2087_23,00.html

They developed a new DSP like extension to the PowerPC instruction set called SPE (Signal Processing Engine).

http://www.simdtech.org/spe

Of course these microcontrollers have no interest for Apple. Motorola has definitely focused on other markets, and IBM will probably become the sole high end PowerPC supplier.
 

ffakr

macrumors 6502a
Jul 2, 2002
617
0
Chicago
Re: Re: Re: here's a question...

Originally posted by Rincewind42
Oddly enough, this is one of those strange issues =).

The current P4 uses a Quad-Pumped 133 Mhz bus (the previous generation used Quad-Pumped 100Mhz) that gives an effective rate of 533 (and previously 400) Mhz. Of course, this isn't as efficient as a 533Mhz Single-Pumped bus, but it does have the same peak theoretical bandwidth.

Why would you say that a quad pumped bus is less efficient than a 'single-pumped' bus (never heard that slang)??

As far as the system is concerned... all that matters is how many 'ticks' per second are available. If you have 533 Million ticks per second, you have 533 Million chances to do something since each clock tick is a signal to the system.

There are currently two ways to generate these ticks. You have a 'clock' (usually a quartz chip) that ticks off time.... tick, tick, tick. You can listen for each cycle generated and therefore get one tick per Hz, or you can listen to each cycle at different points and get multiple ticks per Hz.

On an old SDR Bus, say a 133MHz bus, the quartz clock ticks off 133 Million times per second.
On a 'quad-pumped' [QDR] bus, the quartz clock may still tick at 133MHz, but you use multiple point on each cycle to represent a 'tick'. this allows you more signals to do something. The beauty of DDR and QDR is that you don't have to push the clock speed up to make it do more things. Try running an SDR DIMM and see what happens at 533MHz... the electrons hop from one gate to another, it overheats....bad stuff.

So,.. this is how it actually works... think of a sine wave on a typical x,y graph...
The wave goes up, the wave goes down. For each cycle (Hz) it accends, peaks, decends, crosses x, decends, peaks(-), accends, crosses x... and so on, and so on.
With SDR, the 'tick' comes after a full cycle.
With DDR, the 'tick' comes when the signal crosses x=0... so, you get a 'tick' while decending to x=0 and a 'tick' while accending to x=0.

Now... how is this any less efficient than an SDR solution?
It is actually significantly MORE efficient as you can generate significantly higher effective 'clock rates' without actually raising the clock and buring out your components.

And another thing, If it isn't as efficient, how could it have [as you assert] the same bandwidth? As far as the rest of the system, the QDR subsystem is running at an effective 533MHz (in this example). The idea of doubling or quadrupling a clock rate in this manner doesn't require increased latency.

:confused: :)
 

Rincewind42

macrumors 6502a
Mar 3, 2003
620
0
Orlando, FL
Re: Re: Re: Re: here's a question...

Originally posted by ffakr
Why would you say that a quad pumped bus is less efficient than a 'single-pumped' bus.

As far as the system is concerned... all that matters is how many 'ticks' per second are available. If you have 533 Million ticks per second, you have 533 Million chances to do something since each clock tick is a signal to the system.

On an old SDR Bus, say a 133MHz bus, the quartz clock ticks off 133 Million times per second.

On a 'quad-pumped' [QDR] bus, the quartz clock may still tick at 133MHz, but you use multiple point on each cycle to represent a 'tick'. this allows you more signals to do something.

Now... how is this any less efficient than an SDR solution? It is actually significantly MORE efficient as you can generate significantly higher effective 'clock rates' without actually raising the clock and buring out your components.

And another thing, If it isn't as efficient, how could it have [as you assert] the same bandwidth? As far as the rest of the system, the QDR subsystem is running at an effective 533MHz (in this example). The idea of doubling or quadrupling a clock rate in this manner doesn't require increased latency.

:confused: :)

ArsTechnica has an article that describes how all this works in current memory technology. It is here: http://arstechnica.com/paedia/b/bandwidth-latency/bandwidth-latency-1.html

The gist of the article is that 200 Mhz DDR (400 Mhz effective) is less efficient than 400 Mhz SDR due to latency. No matter what you do to the bus, a 200Mhz bus will always take twice as long to deliver a packet than a 400 Mhz bus will. A 100Mhz QDR (400 Mhz effective) will take 4 times as long as the 400Mhz SDR bus. They will all deliever the same theoretical max bandwidth because they all have 400 million events on which to transfer data, but the SDR bus can get that first transmission from Point A to Point B 4 times faster than the QDR bus with the same bandwidth. All a DDR or QDR system does is pack the ticks closer to each other, it doesn't make them travel faster.

Look at it this way. Just because you can put more runners on the track doesn't mean that you can get the first runner around the track faster. All that double/triple/quadruple data rate does is get more runners on the track.

That initial read latency is why a 400x1 bus is superior to a 200x2 which is superior to a 100x4 bus.

As for burning out components, that is really a side issue. If the component manufacturers could create components that ran at higher rates they would, if only to make double pumped memory that they could sell as PC-8500 (DDR1066). Until they can we will have to use DDR/QDR products that just aren't as efficient as equivalent SDR products.
 

socokid

macrumors newbie
Mar 31, 2003
18
0
Chicago
Re: Re: The G5 is already out?

Originally posted by mathiasr
On the other hand the PowerPC is far from being a dead product line, Motorola announced the new PowerPC 5xx family aimed at extreme temperatures environments.


Very interesting reads. It sure seems the hard core desktop CPU's are on the wayside though.

Hmmm, the next few months will be very interesting. I can't wait...
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.