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PPC970 and WWDC Rumors: Part 2
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NavyIntel007
macrumors 65816
Re: I'm waiting
MHz doesn't matter. Even intel will tell you that when their Centrino processor at 1.6 Ghz out performs the Pentium 4-M at 2.4 Ghz
MHz doesn't matter. Even intel will tell you that when their Centrino processor at 1.6 Ghz out performs the Pentium 4-M at 2.4 Ghz
NavyIntel007
macrumors 65816
Re: Re: Re: Misconceptions
Not true. The 15" powerbooks had a minor redesign before the 12" and 17" came out. People were pissed about it, but Dell does it all the time. I think Apple will start moving in that direction, updating when things are available.
Not true. The 15" powerbooks had a minor redesign before the 12" and 17" came out. People were pissed about it, but Dell does it all the time. I think Apple will start moving in that direction, updating when things are available.
Stelliform
macrumors 68000
Re: Re: Re: Re: Misconceptions
I would agree with that, but I think that apple is limited to this release schedule due to their size. They have to clear out old laptops before new ones can come in.
I would agree with that, but I think that apple is limited to this release schedule due to their size. They have to clear out old laptops before new ones can come in.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Misconceptions
The powerbook, as we knew it the day before MWSF, was not updated at MWSF. Two new models were introduced. The 15"(15.2"?) Powerbook Titanium has not yet been updated, as follows from the product cycle.
The powerbook, as we knew it the day before MWSF, was not updated at MWSF. Two new models were introduced. The 15"(15.2"?) Powerbook Titanium has not yet been updated, as follows from the product cycle.
Re: 64-bit laptops have been around for years
ahh you haven't learned to think like Apple marketing yet:
The first consumer 64 bit notebook super computer!
ahh you haven't learned to think like Apple marketing yet:
The first consumer 64 bit notebook super computer!
NavyIntel007
macrumors 65816
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Misconceptions
The general gist of things are that if Apple went ahead with a mobile 970 they would make more money than if they waited to clear out inventory.
However, If we see 15" updates any time soon, there probably won't be 970's in the powerbooks by June.
The general gist of things are that if Apple went ahead with a mobile 970 they would make more money than if they waited to clear out inventory.
However, If we see 15" updates any time soon, there probably won't be 970's in the powerbooks by June.
Rincewind42
macrumors 6502a
Re: cache speeds
Actually, it's not hard at all to find this information, it's on Apple's Hardware Developer page here: http://developer.apple.com/techpubs/hardware/hardware.html. Under the section for the PowerMac G4 it lists the 3 models as follows:
CPU L3 Ratio
1 GHz 250 4:1
1.25 GHz 250 5:1
1.42 GHz 236 6:1
So the Dual 1.42 PowerMacs clock their L3 caches at 236Mhz DDR (effectively 472 Mhz). The L2 cache of the MPC7455 is 256k clocked at the processor speed.
The PPC 970 doesn't have connections for an L3 cache, but does feature a 512k L2 cache, and of course the now famous 900 Mhz bus.
Actually, it's not hard at all to find this information, it's on Apple's Hardware Developer page here: http://developer.apple.com/techpubs/hardware/hardware.html. Under the section for the PowerMac G4 it lists the 3 models as follows:
CPU L3 Ratio
1 GHz 250 4:1
1.25 GHz 250 5:1
1.42 GHz 236 6:1
So the Dual 1.42 PowerMacs clock their L3 caches at 236Mhz DDR (effectively 472 Mhz). The L2 cache of the MPC7455 is 256k clocked at the processor speed.
The PPC 970 doesn't have connections for an L3 cache, but does feature a 512k L2 cache, and of course the now famous 900 Mhz bus.
Stelliform
macrumors 68000
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Misconceptions
The 15" is ripe for an update, but I hope they postpone the update for the 970's. But then the 17's wouldn't be the top portable. My bet is that they update the 15" and then they update the 17" with the 970's 4th quarter this year at the earliest.
The 15" is ripe for an update, but I hope they postpone the update for the 970's. But then the 17's wouldn't be the top portable. My bet is that they update the 15" and then they update the 17" with the 970's 4th quarter this year at the earliest.
NavyIntel007
macrumors 65816
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Misconceptions
Nope, they're going to update the 15" and the 17" at the same time. It doesn't make much sense to have them updated separately. That's like updating one powermac model but no the other two. Too bad for all those 17" buyers... suckers 😛
Nope, they're going to update the 15" and the 17" at the same time. It doesn't make much sense to have them updated separately. That's like updating one powermac model but no the other two. Too bad for all those 17" buyers... suckers 😛
NavyIntel007
macrumors 65816
Sadly, you have a good point. 🙁
It doesn't matter because I'm buying a 15" powerbook in June no matter what. The 970 would sweeten the deal.
Not to sound like the "PC Weenie," but the new batch of P4s, due any week now, will boast an impressive 800MHz cache (the 2.2GHz P4 with the 800MHz system bus slaughters the 3.0GHz P4 with a 533MHz bus).
But....
More importantly, it houses 1MB L2 cache, as opposed to the 512K in the current P4s.
That test was overclocking the FSB without adjusting the multiplier. The 2.26Ghz P4 that was beating a 3.06Ghz P4 was actually running at 3.4Ghz (2.26 / 533) x 800 = 3.4
3.4Ghz with 6.4Gb/s of bandwidth is bound to be faster than 3.06Ghz with 4.2Gb/s of bandwidth. Especially when all test factors are equal (same cpu family, L2 cache size, motherboard, chipset etc...).
What's not impressive about that is the elaborate cooling used in the tests and the fact intels own roadmap lists the P4 as 3.2Ghz+ by the end of this year. This seems to put everything into perspective. Intel are obviously having a hard time getting any more performance out of the P4 using clockspeed alone so they're improving other areas of the design to squeeze as much life out of the design.
Here's the table off the 800Mhz FSB article on tom's hardware.
But....
More importantly, it houses 1MB L2 cache, as opposed to the 512K in the current P4s.
That test was overclocking the FSB without adjusting the multiplier. The 2.26Ghz P4 that was beating a 3.06Ghz P4 was actually running at 3.4Ghz (2.26 / 533) x 800 = 3.4
3.4Ghz with 6.4Gb/s of bandwidth is bound to be faster than 3.06Ghz with 4.2Gb/s of bandwidth. Especially when all test factors are equal (same cpu family, L2 cache size, motherboard, chipset etc...).
What's not impressive about that is the elaborate cooling used in the tests and the fact intels own roadmap lists the P4 as 3.2Ghz+ by the end of this year. This seems to put everything into perspective. Intel are obviously having a hard time getting any more performance out of the P4 using clockspeed alone so they're improving other areas of the design to squeeze as much life out of the design.
Here's the table off the 800Mhz FSB article on tom's hardware.
Attachments
Slight change of topic...
Remember that rumour a day or 2 ago that Apple had called for tenders for a new motherboard with 970 chips?
Does anyone know anything about the tendering and/or tooling up and production processes etc?
Assuming that a tender is won at best at the end of March (or April if you want to be conservative) how long till production is in full swing, shipped to wherever PowerMacs are assembled and Macs are out the door?
(ie) Does this gel with the latest rumours that PowerMacs may be available 2 months after the WWDC? 😕
Remember that rumour a day or 2 ago that Apple had called for tenders for a new motherboard with 970 chips?
Does anyone know anything about the tendering and/or tooling up and production processes etc?
Assuming that a tender is won at best at the end of March (or April if you want to be conservative) how long till production is in full swing, shipped to wherever PowerMacs are assembled and Macs are out the door?
(ie) Does this gel with the latest rumours that PowerMacs may be available 2 months after the WWDC? 😕
Re: Re: 64-bit laptops have been around for years
Actually, Sun used to sell a portable with a 64bit SPARC in it. It was hella expensive, so I've heard.
Apple wouldn't be the first to market with a 64bit laptop.
also, there will be Athlon64 notebooks. I have a feeling that AMD will have mobile [mainstream] 64bit processors out before we see a 970 in a Powerbook.
Actually, Sun used to sell a portable with a 64bit SPARC in it. It was hella expensive, so I've heard.
Apple wouldn't be the first to market with a 64bit laptop.
also, there will be Athlon64 notebooks. I have a feeling that AMD will have mobile [mainstream] 64bit processors out before we see a 970 in a Powerbook.
Too Late! you do sound like a PC Weenie ;-)
it isn't an 800MHz Cache, it is an 800MHz bus.
You also might want to take a minute and look at the benchmarks between the 400MHz bus P4s and the 533MHz bus P4s. The scores below are based on a 2.5GHz part.
Though the bus is 33% faster,
DX8 benchmarks are only 2.3% faster on the 533MHz bus.
DX7 benchmarks are 1.9% faster.
MP3 Maker Platinum is 1% faster.
Mpeg4 encoding is 3.9% faster.
SiSoft Sandra is FASTER on the SLOWER bus!
PC Mark 2002 is .6% faster on the 533MHz bus.
Apparently there is more holding back the P4 than just system bus. benchmarks available at Tom's Hardware
Intel will have to do more than increase the bus to 800MHz to make a huge difference. The L2 cache will help, but it will also prevent the cost of the parts from coming down since the die will contain many more transistors. Even on a smaller process, the chips will likely yield about the same quantity per wafer.
Ok how about Nvidia FX core on 970?
Now that IBM will be fabbing Nvidia FX, what are the possibilities of Apple licensing the FX core to drop onto 970 silicon to create 64 bit tablet chip. More than that, what would be the technical hurdles to overcome to accomplish this?
Now that IBM will be fabbing Nvidia FX, what are the possibilities of Apple licensing the FX core to drop onto 970 silicon to create 64 bit tablet chip. More than that, what would be the technical hurdles to overcome to accomplish this?
Rocketman
macrumors 603
Re: Ok how about Nvidia FX core on 970?
Stop with the tablet talk.
It ain't gonna happen and that is a technical statement.
HOWEVER.
Some phone variant could. Think of the Nokia 9000 or whatever it is called that is a rectangular phone box that opens up to show a keyboard and a display. Now imagine a variant of that with a blueberry keytboard and a clamshell display with displays on both faces of the clamshell to double the screen real estate.
Now imagine it as tri or quad band cellular including internet, bluetooth, possibly even 802.11g. Then imagine it with OSX portable and rondevoux.
Imagine it with voice recording features, a convenience camera and a video capability, all CMOS.
Now imagine it selling for under $1200, possibly as low as $499 with service contracts attached.
Stop imagining. Several companies are coming out with very similar devices really soon. I would vastly prefer to buy mine from Apple Computer no matter what wacky guys are on the board.
Rocketman
Stop with the tablet talk.
It ain't gonna happen and that is a technical statement.
HOWEVER.
Some phone variant could. Think of the Nokia 9000 or whatever it is called that is a rectangular phone box that opens up to show a keyboard and a display. Now imagine a variant of that with a blueberry keytboard and a clamshell display with displays on both faces of the clamshell to double the screen real estate.
Now imagine it as tri or quad band cellular including internet, bluetooth, possibly even 802.11g. Then imagine it with OSX portable and rondevoux.
Imagine it with voice recording features, a convenience camera and a video capability, all CMOS.
Now imagine it selling for under $1200, possibly as low as $499 with service contracts attached.
Stop imagining. Several companies are coming out with very similar devices really soon. I would vastly prefer to buy mine from Apple Computer no matter what wacky guys are on the board.
Rocketman
Re: Re: Ok how about Nvidia FX core on 970?
Personally, I don't think that Tablet PCs (I think Digital Assistant) are not going to take off in their present form either. But what I do expect to see in the nearish future is some sort of optical (glasses, whatever) screen to interact with instead with some glove technology...
Yes, I know that sounds like VR, but think of this... clear glasses that interpose 2D pixel data on-top of real world... displaying a virtual keyboard for you to type midair, and controlling virtual movement in the similar to the way Black and White (the game) does with it's own hand.
Personally, I don't think that Tablet PCs (I think Digital Assistant) are not going to take off in their present form either. But what I do expect to see in the nearish future is some sort of optical (glasses, whatever) screen to interact with instead with some glove technology...
Yes, I know that sounds like VR, but think of this... clear glasses that interpose 2D pixel data on-top of real world... displaying a virtual keyboard for you to type midair, and controlling virtual movement in the similar to the way Black and White (the game) does with it's own hand.
The 3.2 GHz P4 is expected next quarter, they will also bring new chipsets to the market : Canterwood and SpringDale with dual DDR 400 support and a new technology called PAT (Performance Acceleration Technology) to speed up memory access.
Details about Canterwood
Pentium 4 Intel chipsets
eric_n_dfw
macrumors 68000
Re: Re: Re: Ok how about Nvidia FX core on 970?
TechTV recently had a review on some kind of headset like you are speaking of - gave the reviewer headaches big time and made walking with it on very dangerous. It would have to be something that ws able to adjust to stay in focus - I do not know how that could be done. (Can you determine an eye's field of vision by looking at it?) Maybe if it projected images directly on the retina, but the lens would still distort things I would think.