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Practicality of Multi-Touch and an Early PowerBook Multi-Touch Keyboard Design
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HA!! Yeah, seems like the ultimate gimmick. Imagine the drain on a laptop battery with TWO full screens to power...I see no benefit in this. Perhaps for a tablet or whatever of the future, but not for current laptop designs.
An iPhone-like screen as the trackpad seems more practical...but still gimmicky. These things seem un-apple in that they may overly-complicate the end user experience for the consumer...not the professional, the average consumer (Apple's market.)
That said, I'd love to be proven wrong...but I really don't see it with this current product line-up.
Fingerworks keyboard
I had the FingerWorks TouchStream LP keyboard that I had ordered from Amazon years ago connected to my PowerMac. The problem with it was the lack of tactile feedback. The entire surface was basically smooth so it was difficult to feel where the keys were. I ended up returning it.
I had the FingerWorks TouchStream LP keyboard that I had ordered from Amazon years ago connected to my PowerMac. The problem with it was the lack of tactile feedback. The entire surface was basically smooth so it was difficult to feel where the keys were. I ended up returning it.
I'm not keen on a multi-touch keyboard. But I would love a multi-touch pad on the side of my current Apple keyboard, replacing my mouse. After using my iPhone for so many months, I now find a mouse tedious. I would love to be able to swiftly and easily zoom into my screen, rotate photos, flip through pages, etc... I love the multi-touch technology!
Ah well, I guess I'll have to get a new MacBook.
I'm completely unsure about integrating full multi-touch into the computers. I like the implementation on the new MacBooks, which does make life a lot easier, but I think in terms of system wide integration it's a little cumbersome. Especially with my experiences with the iPhone, which can be a little delayed and not as responsive as it should. I can type quite quickly, but sadly sometimes my iPhone cant keep up.
I think Multi-touch should be implemented when processors can keep up, and would be much better as an additional input, rather than the main input. I'd like to see it used on 30-inch screens in applications such as iPhoto, Photoshop, other graphics based apps, and as a replacement for the mouse. As a keyboard however, I don't think it'll ever be as good as real buttons.
A larger iPhone would be nice tho... maybe double the size it is now, but with internet only capabilities. This is why I think apple are holding off entering the NetBook market, they could implement a full touch screen internet device thats larger than the iphone, but a smaller than the original 12inch MacBook Pro.
Its a shame Microsoft got there first in terms of the coffee table, because that kicks arse! although, I dont think blue would fit into most spaces...
I think Multi-touch should be implemented when processors can keep up, and would be much better as an additional input, rather than the main input. I'd like to see it used on 30-inch screens in applications such as iPhoto, Photoshop, other graphics based apps, and as a replacement for the mouse. As a keyboard however, I don't think it'll ever be as good as real buttons.
A larger iPhone would be nice tho... maybe double the size it is now, but with internet only capabilities. This is why I think apple are holding off entering the NetBook market, they could implement a full touch screen internet device thats larger than the iphone, but a smaller than the original 12inch MacBook Pro.
Its a shame Microsoft got there first in terms of the coffee table, because that kicks arse! although, I dont think blue would fit into most spaces...
I'm surprised that Apple hasn't responded with competition to the HP Touchsmart kitchen computers, with their multi-touch and TV recording abilities.
Integrated home solutions with media extenders, Netflix downloads, etc, are the coming thing, IMO. It's all already available from MS vendors, but Apple has the name to get into more homes, perhaps.
And yeah, throw in a table or wall while you're at it
Integrated home solutions with media extenders, Netflix downloads, etc, are the coming thing, IMO. It's all already available from MS vendors, but Apple has the name to get into more homes, perhaps.
And yeah, throw in a table or wall while you're at it
I think eventually touchscreen keyboards are going to take over:
When you're not using the screen, you've got twice the monitor space. Turn it on its side and you've got two facing pages — perfect for reading ebooks. (You wouldn't need a trackpad anymore, obviously, if you had twin touchscreen monitors.)
Tactile feedbackfor the initial finger position would just need need is a little, clear, transparent nub sticking out where the F and J keys are (just like how it is on a regular keyboard). Glance, feel for the nub and get tapping.
The manufacturing benefits simply outweigh consumers' antiquated need for a typewriter-like experience. Multi-language support would be simply a matter of software, not manufacturing wholly new keyboards — that means one laptop (or one unibody design) for the whole world!
Sure, it'll be weird for a few... DAYS... until you get used to it, and I'm not begrudging anybody for preferring physical keyboards to touchscreen keyboards (despite the fact that most of us have never even tried the technology in a desktop computing setting), but anybody who thinks that feeling a key tap under your fingers is IMPORTANT in any way shape or form just needs to exercise their imagination a little bit more.
Think of the possibilities! A lot of applications simply DON'T need the QWERTY keyboard. For gaming, you could push a button and all of a sudden you have all the buttons/commands you need fanned out. No need to remember "oh, Alt-F1 activates my Mining Laser II" or whatever. (Yes, I play EVE Online.)
They might become an option, but they'll never take over, not least because of cost comparison.
Touchscreen keyboards have been available for many years, in the form of tablet computers, from tiny to large. They're the poorest selling version of a computer, by far.
Flat touch keyboards area okay for gaming devices. We use them in field apps, too, mostly because it makes it easier to seal against dust and moisture.
For mass market business computers... no, because the buttons never change.
For mass market personal computers that see very light keyboard usage... umm... see first statement about lack of sales, but perhaps with a compelling UI it might work.
respectfully, i'm not really following your arguments. in a previous post on this thread i brought up CDs when they hit mainstream in the 80s. i don't know how old you are so you may not know this, but CDs used to cost $19-$29. $$ on new technology most always comes down in time. IF touchscreen interface technology improves and it finally goes mainstream, you'll certainly see prices fall. you can look at flat-panel tvs as an example of that. at the beginning of this decade a 40in flat-panel would have cost you $20k+.
buttons never change in business environment? where i work we have 300+ people all on the same brand/model workstations. however, we have everyone from clerical staff to architects, engineers, project managers, construction managers, etc using them. everyone of those disciplines relies on a totally different subset of applications, and a few apps are the same, ie Office, Outlook, etc.
in my pervious post i didnt state this so i will here. i don't know about anyone else involved in this discussion, but i for one have NEVER used a fullsized multitouch keyboard on a laptop/desktop. as such i'm not qualified to tell you one way or the other if they would perform as advertised or hoped. all i can do is say that i find this and any other technology i read about that is attempting to improve the user experience (first impressions gimmicky or not at times) quite fascinating.
i hope they develop this technology, and at the same time find a way to address a lot of the concerns that people have pointed out.
I'm so glad you don't work at Apple. If they (and other innovative companies) thought like you, we'd have never seen most of the important innovations that have come out in the last 30 years (actually, I shouldn't limit that: if everyone thought like you, we might never have seen the wheel).
Seriously, if your argument is that everyone who makes a touchscreen keyboard right now sucks at it and therefore no one should, then I'm happy to tell you that you're totally wrong. Apple will almost certainly make a full size multi-touch keyboard at some point, whether integrated into a device or standalone (more likely integrated, but we could see both), and when it does, I hope you can realize that it will be a huge innovation and I would guess that it will probably revolutionize the industry. Apple has a habit of that, you know.
jW
You're certainly correct about prices. My first VCR cost me $1000. Ditto for first videocam, microwave, etc. But cost is always relative, and it counts when talking about millions of units. Heck, companies still leave out an LED message indicator because it costs them 50 cents per unit to install.
As for age, well...I've been designing embedded computer systems since 1978, after I got out of the Army working for NSA. I've seen stuff come and go many times over.
I started doing page-flipping with touch finger swipes in 1982. Since 1992, I've done mostly touchscreen applications, from casino gambling terminals, to ruggedized touchscreen handhelds and laptops. My apps are used by tens of thousands of people.
I use a touchscreen laptop myself, have taught my first grade daughter from age one to use them, and have touchscreen computers positioned around my house with my own custom menus.
(I even set up an Atlas Gloves Google Earth gesture control for my daughter. Everyone should try it.)
Or maybe it'd have been the other way around. If I'd been with Apple, I certainly wouldn't have waited until 2007 to come out with a handheld touch device.
As for innovation, I was heavily involved in the first settop box designs, home internet, on demand TV, wireless, and the first multitasking home computer UIs. I was designing computers from discrete chips, and debating in forums online, before you were even born, according to your profile. My experience is real world, not fantasy.
Nope, that's not it. Look, I know touch is new to you, and it's exciting. I understand that. Heck, years ago when I wrote my first touch flick-scrolling, I played with it for days. It's all pretty cool stuff. That's why I've been doing it full time as a career for the past couple of decades.
I'm saying that yes, there are places for it. But to believe that it will "take over" is just naive. We've heard the same thing about voice. And one day we'll hear it said about thought control too. And they'll still be wrong. Nothing is perfectly suited everywhere.
That said, sure I'd love a physical keyboard that can also recognize finger slides across it. And I'm not always right... I'm certainly open to intelligent, non-fanatic, debate.
I LOVE the multi-touch on my new MacBook Pro but this old FingerWorks stuff is really poorly implemented I think. The gestures are ridiculous and are in no way related to the task they perform in logic and nobody would ever remember them let alone learn them all well enough to be fast.
I know Apple purchased FingerWorks and I think it is a good thing they did because now they are taking the concept which is great and implementing it in an actual simple and functional way little by little.
But man those old FingerWorks products are really ugly and poorly designed and implemented!
I know Apple purchased FingerWorks and I think it is a good thing they did because now they are taking the concept which is great and implementing it in an actual simple and functional way little by little.
But man those old FingerWorks products are really ugly and poorly designed and implemented!
Anyone that thinks they want a touch-surface keyboard should try this little experiment:
1) Move your keyboard out of the way
2) Mimic fast typing on your desk for a minute or so
How do your finger tips feel?? Not to mention unless it had some innovative system for flexing, the shock of hitting a hard surface would speed up RSI/arthritis in your finger joints and hands by an order of magnitude!
1) Move your keyboard out of the way
2) Mimic fast typing on your desk for a minute or so
How do your finger tips feel?? Not to mention unless it had some innovative system for flexing, the shock of hitting a hard surface would speed up RSI/arthritis in your finger joints and hands by an order of magnitude!
Feels pretty good actually. Of course, you do remember you don't have to "hit" virtual keys, just lightly touch them, right?
Again, not really any shock if all you do is touch, not hit. It's a matter of understanding the new motion.
jW
The best part of all of this is that tech companies have finally started to experiment with the man/computer interface. And not just experiment - they are actually releasing stuff.
Thank god for the iPhone/Touch and the multi-touch trackpad. Thank god for the HP TouchSmart, The HTC Touch, The Nintendo DS, The Wii etc. etc. I'm really looking forward to see where this extreme focus on the physical tech interface is taking us. I bet it'll be somewhere nice.
Thank god for the iPhone/Touch and the multi-touch trackpad. Thank god for the HP TouchSmart, The HTC Touch, The Nintendo DS, The Wii etc. etc. I'm really looking forward to see where this extreme focus on the physical tech interface is taking us. I bet it'll be somewhere nice.
i really hope that they do release a mactablet/netbook, or basically a big ipod touch that ran Leopard or Snow Leopard. can't wait to see what apple comes up with next
They've been experimenting for decades. But you're right, they're finally releasing stuff.
Everything depends on someone high up seeing a chance for a profit. Thank goodness that the iPhone has pushed the right buttons (heh heh - couldn't resist) in that area.
A couple of recent articles relating to this topic...
ASUS dual panel design contestant
Microsoft Office Labs' idea of 2019 - Watch the video montage
ASUS dual panel design contestant
Microsoft Office Labs' idea of 2019 - Watch the video montage
Any updates on this thread?
Hello,
I just posted my experience at https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/8651091/ I guess I'll contact Wayne to see where we are here - I'd love to replace my touchpad and little touch-knob with a single keyboard
Cheers,
Thorsten Claus
Hello,
I just posted my experience at https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/8651091/ I guess I'll contact Wayne to see where we are here - I'd love to replace my touchpad and little touch-knob with a single keyboard
Cheers,
Thorsten Claus
Yes, this is a challenge. And it's something Apple/Fingerworks have been working on for a while now:
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/10/26/apple_patent_hints_at_tactile_multi_touch_keyboard.html
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