Premiere Pro, PC it is!

[MacOG728893]

Okay, maybe the thread title isn't what I feel, but it makes a point.

I used Premiere Pro before switching to Mac. When I made the switch about 4 years ago, I tried using Final Cut, but felt it was inferior, so I continued using PP to this day. Merely opinion guys...

I hear many people saying now that FCP X is out, that if you're a PP user, might as well build a monster PC for a better price.

While these people do make a practical point, I don't just use my computer for editing and would miss the OS X experience.

I just want to know what you guys think and what direction all of this is heading in given the fact that Mac Pros seem to become less powerful (compared to constant upgrades for PC's) while staying pricey. This is not really advice for me, just want to hear the thoughts of others.

Fact: This isn't a thread of bashing Macs, PC's, Final Cut or Premiere Pro.. Opening mindedness guys and gals

 

[wonderspark]

I built my own PCs for years, and in 2009 I decided to try out another Mac, just to try something different. (I did have a $50,000 Media100 system that ran OS8 on a 9600/300 PowerPC and Enterprise8 RAID tower, and was pleased with it for a while.)

When I picked up my current Mac Pro, I still had Adobe CS3, and I was cooking with gas. I skipped CS4, and then CS5 came along. It was immediately clear that PCs had just gained the upper hand. I was already annoyed that Windows versions of CS had some extra features here and there, including the fact that there was no Audition for Mac (though that changed with 5.5) but now a PC could be upgraded with a massive choice of cheaper and more powerful GPUs and CPUs.

I extended the life of my Mac with a 6-core chip and such, but the next station I build will certainly be a PC if Apple doesn't offer more than they do right now. In other words, when CS6 or CS7 (whatever version is out when I need a new system) comes out, if Apple doesn't sell a system that matches the tech of the day without requiring a massively overpriced and underpowered GPU like the case is today, it will be a no-brainer to build a PC at that time.

 

[MacOG728893]

I might eventually build a PC editing/gaming rig but just keep my iMac and have both. I currently own an iMac, MacBook and iPhone.. So I could fit a custom build somewhere in there!

 

[sbrage2000]

I currently have a first generation Mac Pro which I plan on retiring in the next few months. Like most of the pro video community, I'm anxiously awaiting Apple's decision on whether or not to continue with the Mac Pro line. If they don't, I'll definitely be going the PC route. I agree that OS-X is appealing and if I had a choice, I'd stick with it, but I have absolutely no intention of buying an iMac.

 

[bagelche]

Or, for argument's sake, you could have a PC rig dedicated to editing and use a mac for all your general purpose work. I know plenty of editors who use two computers regardless of platform (especially if you use Avid which is wicked finicky about system settings (hardware and software)).

 

[chrono1081]

No offense OP but it seems like you are under the impression that specs are equal across operating systems....


...I assure you they are not. As a Windows tech I would never purchase a Win machine as my workhorse or even my primary computer. That being said go with what suits you.

 

[wonderspark]

I have both a PC and my Mac for editing, because of Audition (PC). The PC is really getting old, but it's been excellent for years now. A new PC will be just as excellent, and I've been relying on both platforms as business workhorses since I started working.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

When FCPX was released, I decided I wasn't going to upgrade. I went with a Dell. 1/2 the price, and just as good as a MBP, only running a different OS.

 

[MacOG728893]

No offense OP but it seems like you are under the impression that specs are equal across operating systems....


...I assure you they are not. As a Windows tech I would never purchase a Win machine as my workhorse or even my primary computer. That being said go with what suits you.

Let me understand what you are saying.. You think that I think OS X and Windows share the same specs? I do not..

What I think is that if the Mac Pro continues getting sub-par video card updates and sees hardware refreshes every 2-3 years, many Pro loyalists may jump ship to another workstation platform. I understand Windows is still Windows and not OS X, but 7 is fairly reliable.

Only reason I say this is because I cannot justify shelling out that much money for a Mac Pro. I know there are some people who do need that raw power, but when those people eventually get left in the dust, where will the market be then?

Just my 2 cents..

 

[cgbier]

Only reason I say this is because I cannot justify shelling out that much money for a Mac Pro. I know there are some people who do need that raw power

Keep in mind that the Pro is not only about raw power. It is a graphics workstation. Compare it to offerings from Boxx, HP or Dell in the same league, and the Pro isn't that expensive anymore all in a sudden.

The Pro normally gets upgraded when Intel has new CPU in the offering, so it is normal that you have to wait a bit... heck, we even still work with a Quad G5 tower (only with SD projects though).

GPU? I have been fine with the ATI. As I rarely use PP or AE, I don't care much for the nVidias. It's a shame though that Apple doesn't offer the Quadros as BTO anymore.

 

[MacOG728893]

Keep in mind that the Pro is not only about raw power. It is a graphics workstation. Compare it to offerings from Boxx, HP or Dell in the same league, and the Pro isn't that expensive anymore all in a sudden.

The Pro normally gets upgraded when Intel has new CPU in the offering, so it is normal that you have to wait a bit... heck, we even still work with a Quad G5 tower (only with SD projects though).

GPU? I have been fine with the ATI. As I rarely use PP or AE, I don't care much for the nVidias. It's a shame though that Apple doesn't offer the Quadros as BTO anymore.

Keep in mind I am talking about a custom build, which is simple and cheaper.

 

[smokescreen76]

Where I work we have just started upgrading our systems from Windows XP to 64bit Windows 7 and as someone who hasn't used Windows properly in years it seems quite nice to work with.

With the demise of Final Cut Pro as a serious NLE I would happily get a decent Windows 7 64bit PC workstation and run Avid Media Composer with CS5 (for After Effects and Photoshop - not Premiere).

I would still use my Macbook Pro though as my personal computer - web, email etc.

 

[sbrage2000]

It will never happen but I think Apple could solve everyone's problems if they would just open up their license to non-Apple PCs (even if it's a higher priced "Pro license"). They wouldn't have to take a loss on Mac Pro development and power users could still use OS-X on fully-loaded, up to date systems. I understand Apple wants to fully control the user experience, but if that means editing on an iMac, I'll pass.

 

[MacOG728893]

What's everyone's main gripe editing on an iMac?

- Non standard desktop class GPU?
- Non expandability?
- Heat?
- Performance?

I am curious..

 

[sbrage2000]

What's everyone's main gripe editing on an iMac?

- Non standard desktop class GPU?
- Non expandability?
- Heat?
- Performance?

I am curious..

For me, it's mostly the limited expandability and the glossy screen. Glossy screens are pretty, but IMO not great for graphics work. Plus the reflections tend to give me a headache. Much prefer my matte finish Dell monitors.

 

[MacOG728893]

For me, it's mostly the limited expandability and the glossy screen. Glossy screens are pretty, but IMO not great for graphics work. Plus the reflections tend to give me a headache. Much prefer my matte finish Dell monitors.

That's very good point. You know I made a list of components I would use for a custom build and with water cooling and an all large black cooperate (non-gaming) housing, custom PC's aren't looking too bad. Quiet, fast and professional looking, just what I would want.

I am waiting for Ivy Bridge iMacs and will probably buy that and then do a custom build.

Purchasing a non gloss screen will be up there on my list as well.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

What's everyone's main gripe editing on an iMac?

- Non standard desktop class GPU?
- Non expandability?
- Heat?
- Performance?

I am curious..

Given that I'm no longer married to OS X due to dropping FCPX, I would never pay 2x the price for what is essentially the same hardware, and over 2x the price if I wanted lesser hardware coupled with some component that you can only get through Apple if you pay through the nose.

Expandability was always an issue for me when I used macs, and performance, not because it was slow, but because it was slow compared to any other PC in that price range.

 

[arjen92]

You could build a mackintosh. You got a great powerful system and the experience of the OS.

I never did it myself, so I don't know about the problems you can encounter. But aren't video editors that are replacing their processors, not a little bit tech savvy?

 

[MacOG728893]

You could build a mackintosh. You got a great powerful system and the experience of the OS.

I never did it myself, so I don't know about the problems you can encounter. But aren't video editors that are replacing their processors, not a little bit tech savvy?

Haha nah I'm good.. Im going to keep all my Macs that's for sure

 

[Kevin Monahan]

Checking out a PC workstation for work right now. All I have is my MacBook Pro. What you get for the money in the PC world is pretty phenomenal.

Premiere Pro and After Effects guys on the PC side are pretty hard core about hardware. For example, a 12 core machine with 24GB of RAM and a video card with 2GB of VRAM is a "typical" machine. There is so much hot rodding and overclocking in our community, it's awesome.

 

[sbrage2000]

Checking out a PC workstation for work right now. All I have is my MacBook Pro. What you get for the money in the PC world is pretty phenomenal.

To illustrate Kevin's point, here's a list of components I priced out recently, to build a dual 6-core PC workstation for roughly the same price as a mid-range Mac Pro...

SR-2 Workstation

It includes a top of the line video card, 48GB ram, 6-core processors, liquid cooled CPUs and a blu-ray burner. Not to mention the SR-2 motherboard includes 7 PCI x16 slots, 12 memory slots, 2 USB 3.0 and 2 eSata ports. Makes for a pretty powerful editing system I'd say.

Only thing the MacPro has that is arguably better is ECC ram (I priced out basic ram on this one). However, if you wanted that too, you could buy ECC ram from macsales.com. Apparently their ram works fine in PCs that support it. So for an extra $200 or so, you could get 48GB of ECC ram instead.

Anyhow, I realize that A) if you can't put this together yourself, you need to pay a nerd to do it for you and B) you don't get the benefit of warranty support. But it just illustrates what's possible if you have the will and the means.

 

[MacOG728893]

Sbrage, the wish is empty? But you make a good point, warranties are very important and I can see why some people would rather pay the extra cash for the support.

What are your thoughts on CS6 supporting 12 cores?

 

[sbrage2000]

Oops, I misunderstood how the shared wishlist works in Newegg. Fixed the link so you should be able to see it now.

The warranty is definitely important, more so for some people. Most manufacturer's offer a decent warranty on the components they provide (for instance, practically all reputable 3rd party ram has a lifetime warranty against defect). If you're comfortable being your own IT guy, the value of Apple's warranty is debatable.

As far as comparing cost-power-performance of a MacPro vs a homebuilt workstation, maybe it's like comparing an $80K BMW vs a souped up 350z. You put $10K-$15K of after market upgrades into the base model 350z and for about $40K less, you would blow the Beemer away in a straight line. Granted, the BMW will still give you better performance going through the obstacle course, it will have a nicer interior, you will pick up more women, etc. However, when it comes to high end graphics work (After Effects, Nuke, 3D animation), it's all about the straight line performance--how fast does it render, how fast does the screen refresh, how many programs can be practically open at once. The fine handling and aesthetics are more subjective and again, for some people very important. I guess when it comes down to it, the decision is very personal in terms of what is important to you, what you're comfortable with and what you can afford.

As far as CS6 goes, I'm sure it will leverage the full resources of your system. Beyond 12-core support, I'm more interested in whether or not they will introduce SLI support for their Mercury playback system. If they do, that will add another wrinkle to the debate as Macs are unlikely to offer this feature at any point. The motherboard I listed above can handle 4 graphics cards linked in SLI which would provide more graphics power than anything you could ever put in a MacPro. Obviously, this is overkill for most applications, but as more and more processes get passed off to the graphics card it might become a more practical consideration.

On another note, I have a friend who is in the CS6 Premiere Pro beta program (a former FCP fanatic) who says the new version is going to be a major leap forward, especially for people who are coming from an FCP background. As he puts it, it will be everything that FCP should have been. Time will tell.

 

[Eidorian]

EVGA should have a SR-X LGA 2011 successor soon enough.

 

[sbrage2000]

EVGA should have a SR-X LGA 2011 successor soon enough.

Yep, and I'll be making a new wish list when it's available