Price aside, what is actually wrong with the Late-2016 MBP?

[zhenya]

Hm, I thought my wording made it clear or implied it what my real deal breakers are, the rest is nice to have optional.

Deal breakers are the ports, the butterfly keyboard and the touch bar.



The slots I miss the most are the missing SD-card reader, at least one legacy usb port and mag safe.
I could probably live without hdmi but the above ports are not easily replaceable for me.

If I travel and make pictures I just want to be able to put the card out and do it inside my laptop also the circumstance that I need a new cable to connect my Iphone 7 with my laptop is ridiculous.

I also write between 8-12 hours daily on my laptop and I can't do that in the same comfort as before on that keyboard. It is like jumping barefooded on concrete floor over and over again, it really physically hurts.

The ports are really no big deal. What it means is that you and every other user can now use those ports exactly how they need them. Previously Apple had to make a decision about what ports to include, and that meant that it was a compromise for everyone. For most peripherals, you don't actually need a dongle. You need a new cable. Or you need to carry a single adapter like the Digital AV adapter that Apple sells. It weighs about an ounce. Someone who carries a bag with a DSLR and everything that requires, plus a MBP with them really is stretching to complain about carrying a new adapter or two.

If you are typing so hard on the keyboard that it physically hurts, you should consider altering your technique. Typing is a learned skill just like everything else, and nobody who teaches proper typing form will teach you to type hard. Every good keyboard has a very subtle feedback mechanism built into the switch that indicates that the key has been fully depressed before bottoming out the key against the case. If you bang on the keyboard you will never feel that feedback mechanism. The Apple butterfly switches reward this typing style.

All of your complaints boil down to a resistance to change. It's always been tough to be an Apple customer long-term if you aren't willing to have things completely up-ended every few years.

 

[danniexi]

Honestly, I can't understand what everyone is upset about.

• I agree these computers are expensive, but if you buy a well-spec'ed one it should last you at least 3-4 years.
• I would always just get the SSD-size I need from Apple, and wouldn't remove it unless it was being replaced by Apple anyway.
• The size/build and color options of the computer are better.
• USB-C is exactly what I've been waiting for, because from time to time I needed 3x USB3 ports on my current rMBP. This gives much more flexibility.
• The processors will obviously be bumped up next year, probably alongside 32GB of RAM. You can just wait 9-12 months and buy then.
• Yes, the ESC key being gone is weird but not the end of the world.

... I do miss MagSafe, but what is actually wrong? It seems like everything is exactly on-par with what I expected/hoped for.

My only annoying costs:

• 1 x extra AC adapter for my work bag
• Third-party replacement USB-C cables for my external devices from Monoprice or whatever. (cheap, who cares!)
• A new USB-C Ethernet adapter instead of my current Thunderbolt one. (not expensive)

... That's a small price to pay to have everything be more universal.

Seems fine. What's up?

Apple created a laptop for tomorrow when consumers are caught up in a machine they need right now. Consumers have every right to be disappointed in the machine, in which case they should just buy at 2015 model, wait for an updated spec bump, or simply move on to something else.

The 2016 rMBP is very much a "gen 1" product that can only be appreciated by early adopters. Those who are critical of it should give it a year or two when the specs get a decent bump and the price eventually falls to more reasonable levels. By that time, USB-C will be ubiquitous, 32GB LPDDR4 ram will be available, and the transition to moving to the new rMBP will be easier.

Personally, I upgrade my computers every 6+ years (I have an 09 iMac and 2011 Macbook Air) and have a near maxed out 15" rMBP on order to replace both desktop and mobile duties. Because I don't upgrade as often, my peripherals will need updating as well, so I will be replacing old external hard drives and monitors to USB-C/TB3 as they become more widely available. Price is a non issue. So for me, the change is very welcome, but my personal use case is very rare compared to those who update their machines a little more often (every two-three years), making the change that much less compelling.

 

[neteng101]

New keyboard will not be for everyone. They could have give it a bit more key travel and then it would have worked out. And given the amount of room they have, function keys and touchbar combo would have been a possibility too for those who miss having the function keys not always being available. Battery life could be increased since they are not at max battery watt hour for a mobile device.

Any way you look at it - Apple made compromises for the sake of thinness and meeting their weight goals, that they simply did not have to. So many complains would not be there, if only they hadn't compromised on function for the sake of show.

 

[8692574]

1) No Mag safe (it saved my computer numbers of times)
2) Everything soldered (not even the ssd is replaceable, if anything fails it is going for repair) Also as a collector, I replaced parts on my iMac G4 and I can't think of when Apple makes this Obsolete, I won't be able to replace the ssd, making my machine a papar holder! (yes collectability is a pro for me)
3) Dongles galore (do I really need to be "uncompatible" with everyon unless i carry a dongle ??)
4) Gimmick touchbar (it is more up to developers, but I don't see myself using it as my computer is in clamshell mode when at home....and it is at home 30-40% of the time).
5) Thinner for the sake of thinness
6) Performance inprovement is meh (yeah it is low on the list because it depends on what computer you come from)


I am sure I have more reason why not to upgrade, and to some , some of them might sound silly, but to each his own I guess.

 

[AdonisSMU]

1) No Mag safe (it saved my computer numbers of times)
2) Everything soldered (not even the ssd is replaceable, if anything fails it is going for repair)
3) Dongles galore
4) Gimmick touchbar (it is more up to developers, but I don't see myself using it as my computer is in clamshell mode when at home....and it is at home 30-40% of the time).
5) Thinner for the sake of thinness
6) Performance inprovement is meh (yeah it is low on the list because it depends on what computer you come from)


I am sure I have more reason why not to upgrade, and to some , some of them might sound silly, but to each his own I guess.

Performance is improved in my estimation. The write speed seems like it is much faster tbqh.

 

[LiemTa]

I was talking about the 13 inch model.

No one who is serious about working on a computer has the 13in anyway. The 13in are just Facebook machines essentially.

 

[BeefCake 15]

Once you take the price issue out, I do disagree on the ports eliminated cold turkey from the Pro line but can live with it.

I haven't tried the touch bar or keyboard yet to comment on that.

 

[unagimiyagi]

Price aside, the new mbp may well have introduced meaningful regressions to the user experience.
--worse battery
--palm rejection issues with the overly huge trackpad
--confusing touch bar if continually changing contextual buttons are an issue
--no ports
--nickel and diming the user by not including the extension cable, and even new chargers don't even include a usb c cable. So an actually working charger is now $125.
--no magsafe
--worse keyboard that may stop working if a cookie crumb gets into it

They took out everything people like and added things that no one asked for.

 

[leman]

No one who is serious about working on a computer has the 13in anyway. The 13in are just Facebook machines essentially.

Some of my colleagues, who are world-renowned scientists, would get disappointed by this post

 

[Wowereit]

That is interesting I am always impressed from such visionary abilities.
So you knew 10 years, 2 years ago that apple would drop all ports, mag safe, build a butterfly keyboard in a professional machine and including a battery draining touch bar gimmick to interfere with "PRO" users who use shortcuts frequently.

I think what he wanted to say is, that being disappointed is a bit odd because we've known most changes for months now.
USB-C only leaked half a year ago.
Touch Bar leaked weeks before the event.
Butterfly keyboard was obvious.
Thinner/lighter was obvious.
Space grey option was obvious.
CPUs (besides 13" without TB) were obvious and performance has been known for months now.

We've even seen renders which came pretty close to the final product.

 

[Bending Pixels]

There's nothing wrong with them. You just have a bunch of whiny-butts that wanted a thinner and lighter MBP...which in order to get there required the removal of (somewhat aging) USB ports and SD card slots. They got what they asked for and aren't happy still.

 

[laz232]

Honestly, I can't understand what everyone is upset about.

• I agree these computers are expensive, but if you buy a well-spec'ed one it should last you at least 3-4 years.
• I would always just get the SSD-size I need from Apple, and wouldn't remove it unless it was being replaced by Apple anyway.
• The size/build and color options of the computer are better.
• USB-C is exactly what I've been waiting for, because from time to time I needed 3x USB3 ports on my current rMBP. This gives much more flexibility.
• The processors will obviously be bumped up next year, probably alongside 32GB of RAM. You can just wait 9-12 months and buy then.
• Yes, the ESC key being gone is weird but not the end of the world.

... I do miss MagSafe, but what is actually wrong? It seems like everything is exactly on-par with what I expected/hoped for.

My only annoying costs:

• 1 x extra AC adapter for my work bag
• Third-party replacement USB-C cables for my external devices from Monoprice or whatever. (cheap, who cares!)
• A new USB-C Ethernet adapter instead of my current Thunderbolt one. (not expensive)

... That's a small price to pay to have everything be more universal.

Seems fine. What's up?

Dongles for everything (annoying when going to meetings/ clients). Battery life worse / no better than 2015 model (see Ars review). Keyboard worse than older models (a lot of the earlier reviewers suffer from Stockholm syndrome here). Significant price increase. Performance increase negligible compared to 2015 model (see Ars review). Touch Bar usefulness "so-so", looks great for demos, but power users often use keyboard shorcuts anyway (DJs have already said it's way too small /imprecise for DJ work). New trackpad is too big (see reviews).
Repairability essentially 0 (and yes, Apple laptops break).

They are not "bad" laptops per se, but Apple managed to improve on none of the important aspects (battery life, CPU / GPU power) considering the time since the last real refresh. And the changes that they made are not see as important (Touch Bar is completely useless for the work I do, I don't need a larger trackpad, wow a few hundred grams lighter), or regressions (price increase, removal of all currently useful ports).
Adding fake speaker grills (hello liquid damage in a work environment) to the 2016 13" MBP shows where Apple currently stands on form over function.

So I think it's perfectly understandable that people think the 2016 models are a misstep and clear indication that Apple is moving in a direction away from the actual (rather than their imagined or targeted) customer base.

Now: more emojis and watch bands and Apple glass. Hurrah!

 

[Pootmatoot]

Honestly, I can't understand what everyone is upset about.

• I agree these computers are expensive, but if you buy a well-spec'ed one it should last you at least 3-4 years.
• I would always just get the SSD-size I need from Apple, and wouldn't remove it unless it was being replaced by Apple anyway.
• The size/build and color options of the computer are better.
• USB-C is exactly what I've been waiting for, because from time to time I needed 3x USB3 ports on my current rMBP. This gives much more flexibility.
• The processors will obviously be bumped up next year, probably alongside 32GB of RAM. You can just wait 9-12 months and buy then.
• Yes, the ESC key being gone is weird but not the end of the world.

... I do miss MagSafe, but what is actually wrong? It seems like everything is exactly on-par with what I expected/hoped for.

My only annoying costs:

• 1 x extra AC adapter for my work bag
• Third-party replacement USB-C cables for my external devices from Monoprice or whatever. (cheap, who cares!)
• A new USB-C Ethernet adapter instead of my current Thunderbolt one. (not expensive)

... That's a small price to pay to have everything be more universal.

Seems fine. What's up?

Apple used to be expensive - and you got the best, most considered, usage-perfect laptops for that money.

Apple are now even more expensive - and you get products that are lagging behind the competition, are filled with bizarre, almost random choices, and exclude the usage requirements of chunks of their userbase.

That's the main problem: the competition got much, much better, and Apple is not keeping up.

They're turning into Sony: laptops that cost twice the price of the competition, yet objectively worse.

 

[zhenya]

Apple used to be expensive - and you got the best, most considered, usage-perfect laptops for that money.

Apple are now even more expensive - and you get products that are lagging behind the competition, are filled with bizarre, almost random choices, and exclude the usage requirements of chunks of their userbase.

That's the main problem: the competition got much, much better, and Apple is not keeping up.

They're turning into Sony: laptops that cost twice the price of the competition, yet objectively worse.

Please list a laptop that strikes a better balance between size, weight, battery life, power, and aesthetic design than the current MBP.

You are absolutely right that Windows laptops have gotten much better in recent years, but IMO, none of them get the balance quite right.

 

[Pootmatoot]

Please list a laptop that strikes a better balance between size, weight, battery life, power, and aesthetic design than the current MBP.

You are absolutely right that Windows laptops have gotten much better in recent years, but IMO, none of them get the balance quite right.

Given we're getting under-6 hours battery reports in the first reviews, and a lot of the choices you list are contingent on those battery decisions, I think it's a little early to beg the question that the MBP has struck a good balance.

 

[spacebro]

The problem is the macbook pro is that it is no longer a standard size laptop, it is an ultralight. Apple seems to have replaced their entire mac line with ultralights. Need a desktop? Go buy a 3 year old mac pro! Were you waiting for 32gb ram? Actually you don't need 32gb ram because you don't know what you're talking about. Apple just has a crappy elitist attitude towards their former fans is the biggest problem with the new macbook pro.

 

[yillbs]

I just saw this https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook+Pro+13-Inch+Touch+Bar+Teardown/73480
It looks like in the 13" TB model the speakers grills are just.... decoration (!?!)
Can someone please share personal experience about the sound quality of the 13TB model?

for what it's worth, the 13TB model has some of the best sounding speakers i've ever heard. It has decent bass, it doesn't sound flat and mono, they are just generally very very good IMO.

 

[iKnowMr.Jobs]

If you can believe it, a lot more eyes are on Apple than even in 2012 when the first Retina Pros came out. The 13 inch version was a joke, but thats difficult to remember at this point. Started at $1799 and relied on Intel HD graphics for that display. It never really performed well either. The audience for Apple products have grown and thus, criticism is is louder than ever. I seriously doubt that many people could possibly bottlenecking machines with 16gb of RAM and desperately need 32 in their laptop. "Future-proofing" is BS. I doesn't matter how much money you plop down for your computer because it's obsolete immediately. What matters is if it can fulfill your needs for today and the foreseeable future in a reliable matter. Nobody doesn't that better than Apple.

 

[Uplift]

If you can believe it, a lot more eyes are on Apple than even in 2012 when the first Retina Pros came out. The 13 inch version was a joke, but thats difficult to remember at this point. Started at $1799 and relied on Intel HD graphics for that display. It never really performed well either. The audience for Apple products have grown and thus, criticism is is louder than ever. I seriously doubt that many people could possibly bottlenecking machines with 16gb of RAM and desperately need 32 in their laptop. "Future-proofing" is BS. I doesn't matter how much money you plop down for your computer because it's obsolete immediately. What matters is if it can fulfill your needs for today and the foreseeable future in a reliable matter. Nobody doesn't that better than Apple.

Good point, I can remember the uproar over the GPU's not being powerful enough for the scaled retina displays, complaining tht even basic tasks like web browsing was choppy.

 

[Jimmy James]

So far I'm thrilled with my unit.

I'm sure you have a very nice unit, Adonis.

 

[WhiteWhaleHolyGrail]

My two penneth:

1. Such is the joy of Capitalism that if you don't like the new MBP - don't buy it. I keep reading that Apple are 'making' the consumer pay out which is just buyer's guilt to me. It's like complaining to the waiter that you hated the food as you sit there stuffing your face.

2. I will miss MagSafe but it will be useful to power the unit in whichever port is most convenient.

3. I don't agree that anyone should wait for bigger and better specs. If you get caught in the cycle of waiting for that opportune moment to invest, you will always find fault as technology progresses too quickly; I suspect this is why people are so demanding of the new MBP. Likewise, the prices of the MBPs will not reduce significantly in any case which I have always considered a plus point for buying Apple (unless you buy reconditioned of course).

I think some perspective is sorely needed chaps.