Privacy focused alt. to Apple?

[countryside]

I only own Apple devices but want to be prepared in case I need to make an exit. I do not like how they are going to be scanning photos and potentially messages in the future. Does anyone know of a truly privacy-focused software company that will be making phones and maybe laptops that are not android/windows?

 

[dmr727]

Check out https://www.pine64.org/

Anything not Apple/Android/Microsoft will take more effort on your part, but this might be a good place to start.

 

[sracer]

I only own Apple devices but want to be prepared in case I need to make an exit. I do not like how they are going to be scanning photos and potentially messages in the future. Does anyone know of a truly privacy-focused software company that will be making phones and maybe laptops that are not android/windows?

When you say "privacy' what specifically are you referring to? Because depending upon your definition, Apple devices don't protect your privacy any more than Android and Windows devices.

 

[dmr727]

When you say "privacy' what specifically are you referring to? Because depending upon your definition, Apple devices don't protect your privacy any more than Android and Windows devices.

Sounds to me like he's realized that. From a privacy standpoint I'm not sure there's a safe answer when it comes to the big 3. Trouble is, the open source solutions (one of which I posted above) aren't exactly turn-key solutions either. The nerd in me loves the idea of a PinePhone, but there's also the other part that needs things to work without tons of time spent fiddling with it. Phones especially just aren't there yet.

 

[timeconsumer]

I only own Apple devices but want to be prepared in case I need to make an exit. I do not like how they are going to be scanning photos and potentially messages in the future. Does anyone know of a truly privacy-focused software company that will be making phones and maybe laptops that are not android/windows?

I'm planning on switching from Apple because of the recent news especially as I read more from the experts analyzing this. I think it's finding a system that works for you. For me I would be fine with using an Android phone such as a Pixel but using as many non-Google apps as possible. A few examples:

Instead of YouTube use Newpipe.
Instead of Gmail, use ProtonMail or Tutanota.
Instead of Chrome, use Firefox.

But, if you're looking to really dive into more privacy focused you can run "degoogled" versions of Android such as GrapheneOS (https://grapheneos.org/) or CalyxOS (https://calyxos.org/).

And if you want to go even further, you could use something like Cryptomator (https://cryptomator.org/) to encrypt your backups before you place them in any cloud hosting service.

Data is going to be collected regardless of which device you use and it depends on how many hoops you want to jump through. It's just finding what you're comfortable with and what you're willing to do for more privacy. It's a rabbit hole though so be careful.

 

[iHorseHead]

When you say "privacy' what specifically are you referring to? Because depending upon your definition, Apple devices don't protect your privacy any more than Android and Windows devices.

There are privacy oriented Android operating systems. GrapheneOS comes to mind for example and Parrot Security OS etc…

 

[Steven-iphone]

Google Pixel device with CalyxOS rom, privacy and compatibility.

My understanding is that the preposed iOS scanning is cloud files (photos) -- perhaps use an alternate cloud service for storage.

 

[Cycom]

Google Pixel device with CalyxOS rom

Can you please give your opinion on day to day operation with this or graphemes OS Roma on a Pixel.

Smooth…bugs?

Camera?

Apps like navigation?

 

[Ethrem]

There are privacy oriented Android operating systems. GrapheneOS comes to mind for example and Parrot Security OS etc…

I mean even Lineage is de-Googled enough to make up a lot of ground on the privacy front and you can install microG to still be able to access Google services and have full app support while stripping down the information sent to Google.

These other OSes tend to break app compatibility although I tried /e/ on my old HTC 10 yesterday and really wouldn’t mind using that since it has built-in microG support but since the HTC is so old they only have Nougat builds which is just too outdated for me to trust the security which is just as important to me as the privacy.

Lineage also supports a lot more devices which is good for people who don’t want to deal with the hardware issues all Pixels seem to be plagued with.

 

[Steven-iphone]

Can you please give your opinion on day to day operation with this or graphemes OS Roma on a Pixel.

Smooth…bugs?

Camera?

Apps like navigation?

CalyxOS

Pixel 3a

I found it operated well

w/microG active

Nav: Magic Earth
Cam: Google Camera from APKmirror site

 

[ian87w]

The key is signing into the cloud services, or not to do that.
If you can live without iCloud, then iPhone is still the easy-to-use privacy focused phone, as Apple still have better privacy in terms of what being exposed to 3rd party apps. So you still get iOS, ease-of-use, the great app store. The only thing you miss is the iCloud-related convenience. It's like using the iPhone prior to iCloud. You'll be backing it up manually, transfer your photos manually to your computer, etc.

Google Android will not be a good choice because of Google. Problem is, it's hard not to use GMS as the Play Store requires it. You can use custom ROM, etc, but then you really have to tinker around if you need some apps. Basically having Android without Google is like using a Linux computer. You can do it if you're techie enough, but it's just not as convenient for the average user. If you don't need apps, then an Android with a custom ROM without GMS will do the trick.

But it will be hard to live without the apps. Even in my country, nearly everything is going online/digital through apps. From e-wallet payment to signing up for universal healthcare. And the support system are built on whatsapp. Thus imo iPhone+app store minus iCloud is still the better middleground.

 

[Steven-iphone]

Apples proposed CSAM implementation apparently will not work if one is not logged into iCloud Photos. So another cloud storage option would be needed for photos storage, if there are concerns.

One concern I have heard, is that when a photo is flagged, a human person will be reviewing the photo, which could lead to privacy issues.

Reminds me of the TSA body scanners that showed the full body parts to a reviewer - the scanners were then adjusted to block out certain body parts.

Sending photos over iMessage will also be affected.

 

[Steven-iphone]

If a de-Googled phone uses microG implementation, this can help with running Google apps which mostly can be obtained anonymously, ie; Aurora store

 

[Steven-iphone]

If using an Android, you may want to use a FOSS app - TrackerControl (F-Droid). This app can find tune (block) the trackers in apps.

 

[Jason2000]

Apples proposed CSAM implementation apparently will not work if one is not logged into iCloud Photos. So another cloud storage option would be needed for photos storage, if there are concerns.

One concern I have heard, is that when a photo is flagged, a human person will be reviewing the photo, which could lead to privacy issues.

Reminds me of the TSA body scanners that showed the full body parts to a reviewer - the scanners were then adjusted to block out certain body parts.

Sending photos over iMessage will also be affected.

You need to do some more research. Going to take more than a photo flagged for it to get a review. Also why is this such a big deal when the other big tech companies have been doing this and worse for years ? Most people I have talked to had no idea that Google, MS and FB already do this. Are users of those companies unaware because those companies were not up front about what they are doing ? At least Apple is letting users know.

 

[Steven-iphone]

You need to do some more research. Going to take more than a photo flagged for it to get a review. Also why is this such a big deal when the other big tech companies have been doing this and worse for years ? Most people I have talked to had no idea that Google, MS and FB already do this. Are users of those companies unaware because those companies were not up front about what they are doing ? At least Apple is letting users know.

"Apple's method works by identifying a known CSAM photo on device and then flagging it when it's uploaded to ‌iCloud Photos‌ with an attached voucher. After a certain number of vouchers (aka flagged photos) have been uploaded to ‌iCloud Photos‌, Apple can interpret the vouchers and does a manual review. If CSAM content is found, the user account is disabled and the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children is notified." - source MacRumors

Apple Confirms Detection of Child Sexual Abuse Material is Disabled When iCloud Photos is Turned Off

Apple today announced that iOS 15 and iPadOS 15 will see the introduction of a new method for detecting child sexual abuse material (CSAM) on iPhones...

www.macrumors.com

 

[timeconsumer]

You need to do some more research. Going to take more than a photo flagged for it to get a review. Also why is this such a big deal when the other big tech companies have been doing this and worse for years ? Most people I have talked to had no idea that Google, MS and FB already do this. Are users of those companies unaware because those companies were not up front about what they are doing ? At least Apple is letting users know.

For me it’s a big deal because of two reasons:

1. Apple’s proposed implementation will be scanning locally on your device instead of on their servers. To my knowledge all other companies are scanning on their servers and not locally on your device.

2. You’re not able to select which photos get uploaded to iCloud. It’s all or nothing.

 

[arn]

Sending photos over iMessage will also be affected.

depends what you mean by “affected”. It won’t be affected by the CSAM stuff. the iMessage thing is a parental control thing and isn’t related to CSAM

 

[Steven-iphone]

Yes, iMessages will be an on-device implementation with blurred images and child/parent notifications - not CSAM.

 

[jonnysods]

Apples proposed CSAM implementation apparently will not work if one is not logged into iCloud Photos. So another cloud storage option would be needed for photos storage, if there are concerns.

One concern I have heard, is that when a photo is flagged, a human person will be reviewing the photo, which could lead to privacy issues.

Reminds me of the TSA body scanners that showed the full body parts to a reviewer - the scanners were then adjusted to block out certain body parts.

Sending photos over iMessage will also be affected.

What about just iCloud backups? Does it process the images the same?

 

[Ethrem]

The key is signing into the cloud services, or not to do that.
If you can live without iCloud, then iPhone is still the easy-to-use privacy focused phone, as Apple still have better privacy in terms of what being exposed to 3rd party apps. So you still get iOS, ease-of-use, the great app store. The only thing you miss is the iCloud-related convenience. It's like using the iPhone prior to iCloud. You'll be backing it up manually, transfer your photos manually to your computer, etc.

Google Android will not be a good choice because of Google. Problem is, it's hard not to use GMS as the Play Store requires it. You can use custom ROM, etc, but then you really have to tinker around if you need some apps. Basically having Android without Google is like using a Linux computer. You can do it if you're techie enough, but it's just not as convenient for the average user. If you don't need apps, then an Android with a custom ROM without GMS will do the trick.

But it will be hard to live without the apps. Even in my country, nearly everything is going online/digital through apps. From e-wallet payment to signing up for universal healthcare. And the support system are built on whatsapp. Thus imo iPhone+app store minus iCloud is still the better middleground.

Ehhh it’s way easier to use a Linux computer these days. Mint will install and run on just about anything and comes with the option to install proprietary drivers and software like codecs automatically. Most modern Linux distros have their own built in app stores too so you can find Linux alternatives to everything you need pretty easily. The only thing that is still touch and go is gaming although Proton is making that much easier.

You are right about Android though. I did some research last night and microG doesn’t pass SafetyNet currently which means a lot of compatibility issues with CalyxOS and since GrapheneOS doesn’t even have microG, a LOT of things break. I have 26 financial apps I use from banks, credit unions, and credit reporting companies so it’s very likely I would have to keep a separate device just for those apps. That’s not difficult to do because I could just use my LG G8 or 12 Pro Max for that but it is certainly an annoyance and it has me rethinking my plans. I may just drop iCloud.

 

[arn]

What about just iCloud backups? Does it process the images the same?

It doesn't scan iCloud backups. So if you turn off iCloud Photo Library and use iCloud Backups, it won't be activated.

 

[Ethrem]

For me it’s a big deal because of two reasons:

1. Apple’s proposed implementation will be scanning locally on your device instead of on their servers. To my knowledge all other companies are scanning on their servers and not locally on your device.

2. You’re not able to select which photos get uploaded to iCloud. It’s all or nothing.

If you want to be technical about it, you can move photos to Files and that will prevent those photos from being uploaded to iCloud photos. You would have to turn off iCloud Drive though I believe to stop those files from being uploaded.

 

[jonnysods]

It doesn't scan iCloud backups. So if you turn off iCloud Photo Library and use iCloud Backups, it won't be activated.

Thanks Arn!

 

[Freedom1]

You need to do some more research. Going to take more than a photo flagged for it to get a review. Also why is this such a big deal when the other big tech companies have been doing this and worse for years ? Most people I have talked to had no idea that Google, MS and FB already do this. Are users of those companies unaware because those companies were not up front about what they are doing ? At least Apple is letting users know.

The other companies are not doing ON DEVICE scanning. That's the new aspect.