Privacy Whistleblower Edward Snowden and EFF Slam Apple's Plans to Scan Messages and iCloud Images

[Expos of 1969]

This deserves a re-post :

Things are different now.
(not for me,if they really do this,no more iPhones for me after 12 years simple as that)

What they meant is that the photos etc. will remain on your phone but we Apple will view and copy as we deem necessary

 

[iHorseHead]

I don’t have any pictures that I wouldn’t want scanned but I will not continue to use iCloud photos. In fact I’ve already turned it off.

I agree. I don't have any nudity on my phone and mostly have just travel pictures and the places where I've been.
The problem is that it starts out with child pornography and it ends up with something worse. We've seen this happen throughout history.
China secretly used an award-winning iPhone hack to spy on Uyghur Muslims
China believed to have used iPhone exploits to track Uyghur Muslims

And lets not forget this 'feature' will have bugs. Louis Rossmann explained it well enough.

 

[Spizike9]

And that is the beauty of it, you can disable iCloud photos. Apple isn't forcing you to use the service, especially if you don't agree to the terms.

Just wait till they make Star Trek illegal. Then you’ll care about getting your pictures scanned. What they are doing is a very slippery slope.

 

[Spizike9]

I agree. I don't have any nudity on my phone and mostly have just travel pictures and the places where I've been.
The problem is that it starts out with child pornography and it ends up with something worse. We've seen this happen throughout history.
China secretly used an award-winning iPhone hack to spy on Uyghur Muslims
China believed to have used iPhone exploits to track Uyghur Muslims

And lets not forget this 'feature' will have bugs. Louis Rossmann explained it well enough.

Totally agree with you.

 

[TVreporter]

Certainly concerning if this technology were to fall into the wrong hands or be expanded. The intent is great but it leaves a lot of unanswered questions.

And by only taking Apple's word for it, how do we truly know they haven't being using this sort of tech all along?

 

[09872738]

Just wait till they make Star Trek illegal. Then you’ll care about getting your pictures scanned. What they are doing is a very slippery slope.

Indeed. Now that pandora‘s box is open its only a question of time till they scan all pictures, not only those uploaded to iCloud.
Next they scan videos, documents…. privacy my a**

Well done, Apple. From the last epitome of privacy to zero trust in a couple of moments

 

[Expos of 1969]

Indeed. Now that pandora‘s box is open its only a question of time till they scan all pictures, not only those uploaded to iCloud.
Next they scan videos, documents…. privacy my a**

Well done, Apple. From the epitome in privacy to zero trust in a couple of moments

Some of us have been highlighting Cook as a hypocrite, liar and phoney for quite some time. It is refreshing to see others are now coming to similar conclusions.

 

[09872738]

Some of us have been highlighting Cook as a hypocrite, liar and phoney for quite some time. It is refreshing to see others are now coming to similar conclusions.

In German we have proverb: „Who got caught lying just once is not believed any more“.

The same applies to trust. It needs time, lots of it, to build up trust. It vanishes in a second if broken and may not be regained, ever.

This is how I feel about Apple. They cannot be trusted any longer

 

[iHorseHead]

Certainly concerning if this technology were to fall into the wrong hands or be expanded. The intent is great but it leaves a lot of unanswered questions.

And by only taking Apple's word for it, how do we truly know they haven't being using this sort of tech all along?

It will be expanded. It's obvious. It has always started with good intentions. Their promises of privacy is the only reason I went back to Mac and iPhone.

 

[Mescagnus]

Like many have said, it's where this leads to which is the issue. I feel like they could be starting with child pornography, which is something few could say is acceptable, as a way to start scanning content on our phones for other purposes – such as chat messages and files. Of course, they could be doing this remotely already but we have a level off Trust in Apple.

I can also see an issue where someone could spam an inappropriate image to you which then gets uploaded to the Cloud and starts a whole chain of events. Sure, you could probably prove that you were a victim but only after your life is turned upside down.

I agree.

For example WhatsApp has a widely used feature where it automatically saves any photo from a received message to Photos.

Photos then backs it up to iCloud.

Apple scans it and flags it for illegal content, suspends your account and reports you to the authorities.

All because you received a message from an angry ex or a friend who has an issue with you.

But perhaps no one would ever think to do such a thing...

 

[dojoman]

So who‘s reviewing these photos some underpaid souls in India or AI will scan?

 

[cola79]

If you just look how governments behaved during the pandemic, it is clear that this technique will be expanded to enslave anybody within maybe five years maximum.

Great Job Timmy, you killed the whole smartphone market overnight.

 

[BigDO]

Unbelievable, after all the posturing about privacy.

 

[baypharm]

You're not understanding. NO ONE sees the scan results from your phone except for flagged photos and only then if there's a certain number of flagged photos and only THEN if you upload them to iCloud (where Apple has always been able to access your content if they wanted to). The scan is not being monitored by Apple employees, LOL! It's all happening within the software and completely hidden from Apple's eyes.

This according to Macrumors news page: ”User devices will download an unreadable database of known CSAM image hashes and will do an on-device comparison to the user's own photos, flagging them for known CSAM material before they're uploaded to iCloud Photos.”

sounds like scanning will occur on the iphone before upload to the cloud

 

[usagora]

sounds like scanning will occur on the iphone before upload to the cloud

Yes, which is a GOOD thing, because Apple can't see what's on your iPhone. They only get notified if you UPLOAD multiple CSAM-matched images to their servers.

 

[ColdShadow]

Apple is now officially anti privacy.
End of story and no matter what the excuse is.

I simply don’t trust Apple anymore.

I already deleted my iCloud drive,downgraded my plan to the free one and will only backup my photos/video offline locally.

so glad I didn’t upgrade my iPhone this year,I’m now considering buying an android flagship this year and ditching iPhone.

I don’t want my photos and messages constantly scanned by them.

guilty unless proven innocent? disgusting policing people by Apple.
who they think they are?

iPhone’s main “advantage” over Android for me was these claims of privacy,funny how it turned out..the phones with LEAST possible privacy!

 

[Somian]

Why the hell would they let you opt out of this scanning process? This is an issue of illegal images, not diagnostic data. Are you really expecting them to effectively say, "If you'd like to be able to get away scot free with uploading child porn images to our servers, click here to opt out" 🤦‍♂️

No data from this scan is being sent to Apple unless you CHOOSE to do so by uploading the files to iCloud AND you've had a certain number of images identified as CSAM. So basically, for everyone except people who are trying to distribute child porn, Apple never sees any scanning data from your phone. Well, everyone except that less than 1 in a trillion person (and even then the review process would easily resolve that and nothing would happen).

Exactly! It wouldn’t make sense to let anyone out which means this only works on a closed system.
And because it’s a closed system and everyone gets their own set of hashes to compare, you can’t tell if it’s really child porn or something else.

 

[JD2015]

Apple is now officially anti privacy.
End of story and no matter what the excuse is.

I simply don’t trust Apple anymore.

I already deleted my iCloud drive,downgraded my plan to the free one and will only backup my photos/video offline locally.

so glad I didn’t upgrade my iPhone this year,I’m now considering buying an android flagship this year and ditching iPhone.

I don’t want my photos and messages constantly scanned by them.

guilty unless proven innocent? disgusting policing people by Apple.
who they think they are?

iPhone’s main “advantage” over Android for me was these claims of privacy,funny how it turned out..the phones with LEAST possible privacy!

I do not agree with what you said but that's the beauty of debate and choice. Everyone agrees that it is a good thing to be tackling child pornography. This supersedes privacy any day of the week for me if it helps in part protect those exploited. And yes it is not going to stop it or protect all but is a helpful tool to help combat it.

https://www.apple.com/child-safety/ explains the steps involved in supporting privacy but also raising matches.

As others have pointed out we have our bags searched at airports, we report concerns to the authorities which means others' privacy gets violated, and much more. Not everyone likes this either. However, there is a process for investigating concerns as with anything. Apple is not policing it but passing on any concerns as the users only pay for the right to be allowed to host photos on iCloud.

For those that are concerned request Apple gives people the option to opt out and also address any concerns more on their child safety page. Or provide a better way of helping with it.

I always argue, if If you want privacy you wouldn't own a smartphone, IoT device, or be on the internet and certainly not on any social media site. I certainly do not trust any tech company fully. If I do not want something in the public domain it won't be on any smart device or the internet. It is a very difficult balancing act for tech companies as each country has different laws around privacy and expectations. Cultures also help determine attitudes and want so don't envy Apple in this case. I do think though the majority of users won't care and will support Apple on this.

 

[jntdroid]

You're not understanding. NO ONE sees the scan results from your phone except for flagged photos and only then if there's a certain number of flagged photos and only THEN if you upload them to iCloud (where Apple has always been able to access your content if they wanted to). The scan is not being monitored by Apple employees, LOL! It's all happening within the software and completely hidden from Apple's eyes.

But again, I should have a choice as to whether or not they're scanning things on my phone. Why not match hashes once they're uploaded to iCloud? (I know we went back and forth on this yesterday already )

 

[09872738]

I always argue, if If you want privacy you wouldn't own a smartphone, IoT device, or be on the internet

Ok. You always argue, and you are always wrong. Not everyone is using a Smartphone just to access Facebook.

I have no intentions to give up my privacy just because I use a smartphone. Why would I?

 

[Rigby]

Yes, which is a GOOD thing, because Apple can't see what's on your iPhone.

Didn't you just write that they only scan pictures that are uploaded to iCloud, where of course Apple can see them and even scan them? And - surprise - it turns out they have been scanning photos on iCloud all long . So why exactly do they suddenly need to scan our devices? The only reason I can think of is that they are laying the groundwork for future developments ...

 

[coachgq]

apple has a history of doing what 'evil' countries want.

Why are you supporting literal spyware installed on your phone?

I guess I just don’t care enough if people look at my pictures. You can see my dog, my food, places I’ve traveled. Heck I post some of these of different social media sites anyways. Why are people so freaked out about someone seeing your pictures. If that’s the case you either have some skeletons in your closet or you probably shouldn’t be using technology this advanced. Either that or your in the CIA. I am none of those 3, so it just doesn’t bother me.

 

[coachgq]

Ok. You always argue, and you are always wrong. Not everyone is using a Smartphone just to access Facebook.

I have no intentions to give up my privacy just because I use a smartphone. Why would I?

What is it you are trying to protect?

 

[coachgq]

Didn't you just write that they only scan pictures that are uploaded to iCloud, where of course Apple can see them and even scan them? And - surprise - it turns out they have been scanning photos on iCloud all long . So why exactly do they suddenly need to scan our devices? The only reason I can think of is that they are laying the groundwork for future developments ...

Such as…

 

[09872738]

What is it you are trying to protect?

You know, its called privacy. My business, not anybody else‘s.

Think: having a s**t ain‘t a crime. Yet noone in his right mind would ask for toilet doors to be removed