Pro 1.1 EFI vs FCP7 vs FCPX and BMD card

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by basilt, Aug 16, 2016.

  1. basilt, Aug 16, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2016

    basilt macrumors regular

    basilt

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2016
    #1
    hello,

    i just bought a used mac pro 1.1 Xeon 2.66ghz with 8GB ram and video card supplied by apple (geforce 7300). OSX Lion 10.7

    I know it has EFI 32 bit that can be upgraded to 64bit.
    I admit i still cannot understand what the 32b vs 64b boot can offer though.

    I have also a PPC G5 2Ghz with FCP7, 10GB ram, BMD Decklink (2005 model) video card
    with break-out cables and i installed the latest FCP7 supported for leopard via hack.

    My questions are the following...

    Using the EFI 32bit on Mac Pro 1.1
    0) can i install any software i like or the software must support 32bit only ?

    1) Can i install my FCPS used to work in PPC G5 in my Mac Pro 1.1 ? If not why ?
    Is it because it is Xeon and does not support the PPC EFI architecture ?

    2) Can i install FCPX on this machine and will it work with my 7300 card ?
    3) Can the BMD (Black magic design) declink card re-installed on the MacPro ?

    Using the EFI 64bit on Mac Pro 1.1
    A1) What is the difference after this installation compared to the above s/w usage ?
    A2) Can the above software and BMD card be installed as well without problems ?

    A3) Do you suggest OSX upgrade to which version for this machine and allow
    me work with Final cut etc. please.

    Any answers will be appreciated :)

    Thanks
     
  2. Ultracyclist macrumors regular

    Ultracyclist

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2014
    Location:
    Zwijndrecht, Netherlands
    #2
    Happy to answer/help!

    0) running OSX makes it capable of running 32 and 64 bit software
    1) No, you should get final cut pro 7 or higher, your FCPS is PPC Software and won't work on intel based processors
    2) Yes, but barely. ( depending on what OS X/FCPX you'll use) Consider upgrading the GPU card to a minimal 1gb radeon
    3) Most likely yes

    1) non, as far as I know
    2) Yes, as far as I know

    Good luck!
     
  3. basilt thread starter macrumors regular

    basilt

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2016
    #3
    Ultracyclist, thank you very much for your help. Do you advise an upgrade to OSX and to which version.

    According to your opinion if i upgrade EFI boot to 64b, what will i gain ? Just 64b processing ?
    I have heard that if you go EFI64, then you need a card capable of showing boot screen information.
    Dont know why must be specific card though.

    If i could also add the ram of ppc to the macpro would be great, but does not work... ;-)
     
  4. Ultracyclist macrumors regular

    Ultracyclist

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    #4
  5. hwojtek, Aug 16, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2016

    hwojtek macrumors 65816

    hwojtek

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Location:
    A small rural village in western Poland
    #5
    Major confusion in here.

    EFI:
    Bad news: there is no and there will be no EFI64 for Mac Pro 1,1/2,1. Good news: you do not need it for running 64-bit code, because the computer is perfectly capable and runs 64-bit code natively (try turning it on while holding 6 and 4 keys and then check your System Profiler → Software. You will see "64 bit kernel and extensions").

    What you are referring to is the ability to run Yosemite or ElCapitan with a special build of boot.efi file that initiates the actual boot of the OS X. Pick the system you want to use and then follow the guides for Yosemite or El Capitan.

    Note: you can upgrade the firmware of your 1,1 to 2,1. While this will NOT change the EFI part and it will be still 32-bit (as stated above: not really a problem), you will gain ability to correctly use slightly better CPUs (up to 2 quad-core 3.0 GHz Xeons X5365) and support up to 64 GB RAM (32 GB before upgrade).

    Video card:
    Well, here you are with the actual EFI thing. Yes, you can run a LOT of AMD cards once you update the firmware with the EFI part. Please refer here as an example (there are more threads in regards of flashing the cards). Your best bet is to watch netkas.org forums closely and buying exactly the same make and model of a card that has been reported as working and its EFI firmware published on the forum.

    Notes:
    1) you CAN leave your current card in an unused slot and put almost any AMD card into #1 PCIE slot. This will allow the boot screens (Apple logo and everything happening before the login screen) to be displayed on a monitor attached to the old card, even if it is not set as the default display. Might be useful if you venture for an unsupported OS X upgrade and don't want to reflash the new cards, because....
    2) ...video card reflashing happens only from DOS/Windows, with DOS recommended. That's another small complication.


    There is no way to install ElCap without another (ElCap supporting) Mac, if your Mac Pro has less then 12 GB RAM.
     
  6. CapnDavey macrumors 6502

    CapnDavey

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2015
    #6
    Get a copy of SFOTT this will allow you to make a Mavericks or Yosemite install flash drive for you mac pro also get a better video card first so it will work right
     
  7. basilt thread starter macrumors regular

    basilt

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2016
    #7
    hm... i now feel I have totally fried my brains... lol

    Ok, i will first thank you all for the advice and I will read in peace tommorrow carefully to see next Q&A.
    I have to show clear understanding EFI and EFI BOOT are two different things.

    I wanted to post a link to a thread in the MRumors forums where someone was listing a chart/ table with EFI
    compatibilities and upgrades, but still cant find it... anyway see you tommorrow.
     
  8. basilt thread starter macrumors regular

    basilt

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    #8
     
  9. hwojtek macrumors 65816

    hwojtek

    Joined:
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    Location:
    A small rural village in western Poland
    #9
    OS X does not care if the app is 32 or 64-bit. It will run anyway.

    You will want to bump the RAM. The easiest way to install ElCap (it works like a charm on a 1,1/2,1) I have linked above, unfortunately calls for 12 GB RAM minimum (the system will run with less, it's an installer issue). You can go straight ahead with the install/upgrade.

    As you will want to replace the crucial boot.efi file on your ElCap installation, I suggest putting another disk into your computer, cloning (Google: SuperDuper or CarbonCopyCloner) your existing disk with old OS X onto the the new one and only then upgrading the system to ElCap on the original HDD. This will allow you to replace the crucial files from within your previous OS (that will be comfortably waiting on the other disk as a backup).

    If you do not have an older OS to run on the Pro, it's a bit trickier, but still doable. Follow the guides.

    Format: Journaled HFS+ (do NOT select "case-sensitive").

    Once you are OK with the installation, remove the disk(s) from your G5, put into the Pro, run Migration Assistant and transfer whatever you need from Leopard disks to the Pro.

    And no. You replace the boot.efi once and everything will work, no need to keep two versions.
     
  10. basilt, Aug 19, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2016

    basilt thread starter macrumors regular

    basilt

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2016
    #10
    hwojtek thanks for your advice. What do you think on another alternative before i go to new OSX on macpro
    I will do the 1.1 to 2.1 first. Then i will mount my PPC startup hard drive to the macpro and boot from the macpro
    using Lion.
    1) Now do i have to run migration assistant to copy my files from PPC onto MacPro ?
    I see some videos and when transfer is done, the assistant makes a new user account
    and not sure if having 2 accounts on 1 macpro is good for the upgrade process.
    2) If the two systems are not compatible for a reason, where the migration assistant utility really helps ?
    What exactly copies from the PPC to Macintel system i have not understood completely.
    Although some apps are installed in the apps folder some are moved and installed by me in other folders.

    I thought of dragging my data from PPC hdd to Macintel HDD and sort it out.
    I would not drag any applications though as they would not in macintel.
    I am just scared not to transfer any bad preferences from PPC on the macintel and have to reinstall
    everything again from the beginning, all all this because of the migration assistant.
    3) After i copy the files, on macpro, i will possibly format the hdd so i can re-use it.
    4) Then i will try to install the BMD card and see if it works (maybe my 2nd ATI rad. PPC card might work on macpro)
    5) If all go ok i will start the upgrade process.

    What would you recomend
    --- Post Merged, Aug 19, 2016 ---
    thanks for the advice CapnD. !
    --- Post Merged, Aug 19, 2016 ---
    Thanks cyclist. Nice bike by the way. My mountainbike is too heavy for fast rides like yours...
     
  11. Ultracyclist macrumors regular

    Ultracyclist

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Zwijndrecht, Netherlands
    #11
    Thanks, I've build them myself and they are build to do ultra cycling

    Best of luck with your cMP! Hope you'll enjoy it as much as I do.
     
  12. basilt thread starter macrumors regular

    basilt

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2016
    #12
    haha i hope all with go ok with the setup soon. there is a lot of mac help here as well.
    It will be done... soon.

    I use to ride my mountain with my camera and tent and cycle 50km to take photos. its just heavy
    though for long distances but when it comes to rough road, does a good job for the last 15 years..
     
  13. hwojtek macrumors 65816

    hwojtek

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Location:
    A small rural village in western Poland
    #13
    Absolutely legit. The Migration Assistant would transfer some settings (Mail, Bookmarks etc), but on second thought - not really necessary. You will be just as good if you only copy the actual files.

    Again, good idea. Never too much of disk space.
     
  14. basilt thread starter macrumors regular

    basilt

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2016
    #14
    Ok, just managed to do the firmware upgrade and now i have Macpro 2.1.
    Will post soon my news after i make my final backups
     
  15. basilt thread starter macrumors regular

    basilt

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2016
    #15
     
  16. hwojtek macrumors 65816

    hwojtek

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Location:
    A small rural village in western Poland
    #16
    Same card, people call them differently.
     
  17. basilt thread starter macrumors regular

    basilt

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2016
    #17
    hwojtek thanks again !

    May i ask you this... you might be of help.
    On the mac, since i bought it used, has an admin and user (admin) account login screen, which i reset password
    and now login ok.

    It seems i have to reformat this macpro for sure, as i also have speaker/ sound issues. and i wonder now....
    What happens if i do a recovery install and asks me for a user ID, which i have from my G5, but not for osx Lion ?

    I found some dmg's that say retail version and appstore. Can i burn them with diskmaker and have a bootable osx
    and does this causes problems with appleID of previous owner, if i format and re-install lion for a start ? If i cannot avoid login issues how to bypass them. You can send me a PM if you like on the latest issue etc.

    Or would you prefer to install maverics instead of lion ? Firmware is 2.1 now. memory still 8GB.
    If i put maverics will the nvidia 7300 still work ok with new osx and possibly fcp or whatever compatible version video editing suite ? Otherwise i will wait a bit more to find even a gt120 card for better luck and then move on.
     
  18. hwojtek macrumors 65816

    hwojtek

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    #18
    If you do an internet recovery procedure, the installer will ask you for an AppleID but will accept any valid AppleID, including yours.
    That said, if you want to format the disk and install from scratch anyway, I'd suggest burning a CD or preparing an USB stick with the installer (Mavericks seems a very good idea here, the more modern the system, the better). I personally prefer USB sticks, so stick (sic!) to this procedure: http://lifehacker.com/how-to-create-an-os-x-mavericks-usb-installation-drive-1450280026
    (just to make things easier, the command mentioned in #5 is:
    Code:
    sudo /Applications/Install\ OS\ X\ Mavericks.app/Contents/Resources/createinstallmedia --volume /Volumes/Untitled --applicationpath /Applications/Install\ OS\ X\ Mavericks.app --nointeraction
    assuming your "Install OS X Mavericks.app" is located in /Applications - the default download location if you get it from the App Store - please note the command extends way to the right in this small window above so you need to scroll right).
    Once you have an installer, you boot off it (hold ALT while restarting until you hear the gong and then couple of seconds longer so you can pick the installer as the boot drive) and format the disk using Tools/Disk Utility from the menu before the actual installation procedure. This way you will have a clean install and will not be asked for an AppleID until the computer starts to personalize the clean installation for you. Just enter your credentials and you're done.
    Mavericks will work with the GT7300. You may find the card a bit slow however. I personally prefer AMD cards to Nvidias (because it's way cheaper/easier to get a regular AMD card up & running properly in the Mac Pro), but that's another story.
     
  19. Ultracyclist, Sep 10, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2016

    Ultracyclist macrumors regular

    Ultracyclist

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2014
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    #19
    You could choos for Diskmaker X to make an installer USB.

    This app is easier then using the terminal commands.

    Its a great and easy app.

    I could now, I've used it over and over and did the dutch translation.

    http://diskmakerx.com
     
  20. basilt, Sep 12, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2016

    basilt thread starter macrumors regular

    basilt

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2016
    #20
    thanks for the reply, was not sure if this diskmaker was indeed that easy, and was not sure if this program
    makes full install (all apple files) usb disk rather than recovery files which i heard they are not the complete OSX
    install version
    --- Post Merged, Sep 12, 2016 ---
    hello distant mac user :-D

    ok, i got the concept clear. I will try to find a maverics OSX and begin with it for sure as lion would be hassle as will upgraded later on and after all are ok will try the next osx upgrade.

    I read the terminal command, which i guess is one line code and i will replace the applications path with my own location of the dmg file. But what exectly does it do ? it uncompresses the dmg file, and runs the installer after 20min formating the USB ? I will do it with 8GB usb drive + i will burn a dvd with diskmaker to be on safe side.

    For the card, i seriously think the AMDs as well plus is cheaper as you say, but if this card needs flashing i will try to see how to find a pc (i guess laptod does not do this job) with proper slot to do flashing.

    I found some cards like saphire etc with 150 euros max from ebay and 3gb ram. still looking... which card you suggest from amd and if needs flashing or not ?) I will use it for FCP or avid and premiere later on, together with my photoshop. I will see what will do with my G5 hard drives this week.

    The sad thing is that i will miss my G5, very hard working device... lots of memories etc... but thats life...
    Thanks again for all your help.
     
  21. hwojtek, Sep 12, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2016

    hwojtek macrumors 65816

    hwojtek

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Location:
    A small rural village in western Poland
    #21
    Actually it decompresses the .app file (the OS X from Lion on is delivered as an application) and creates a bootable USB stick. The diskmakerx application does the same, but is much easier to use.

    In regards of flashing the card - use Windows in bootcamp to use AtiWinFlash or burn a Freedos CD with the DOS equivalent, atiflash.exe and the firmware file to be flashed. I have a separate hard disk with Windows XP just for this purpose, every now and then I put into the Pro and experiment.
     
  22. basilt thread starter macrumors regular

    basilt

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2016
    #22
    hey hwojtek, thanks a lot for your everyday tips to me ! Sounds a good solution to have a second hdd for win and bootcamp.
    Did not think of that option. I will see if bootcamp comes with Lion osx and maybe i can format a 8GB USB drive to use as external
    HDD with windows installed on it to work out the flashing.

    this windows in bootcamp sentence is confusing me right now... Do you say that in your osx you installed bootcamp and run the atiwinflash (.exe ?) to flash the pc card on the mac slot ?

    What about the freedos etc. do i have to use bootcamp with the freedos procedure, or not- just a dos cd in the mac (does not sound that right i think)

    1. Does it matter if the pc formated, bootable hdd on pc i assume, has XP or win7 ?
    2. Is it compatibility issue or specific reason for XP ?
    3. What kind of SATA model is this HDD ? ata 150 ? because i see my macpro has specific mounts allowing sata hard drives.

    By the way, i am back home, where i have my PPC g5 DC 2ghz with leopard. My Leopard hdd is 700GB.
    I plugged my macpro 250GB hdd and is recognised ok.
    I want to format the 250GB, OSX lion bootable hdd and install latest Leopard update as i have the disks.
    Then i want to format the 700GB, Leopard bootable hdd and install Maverics so when i go back to work
    i can plug-in the hdd on the macpro and boot.

    The question is: Can i install osx maverics on this HDD using my PPC G5 mac software ?
     
  23. hwojtek macrumors 65816

    hwojtek

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Location:
    A small rural village in western Poland
    #23
    Exactly this way. You'll end up with a separate hard disk for Windows. Then you'll use the https://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/2311/ati-winflash-2-6-7 in Windows (along with the appropriate graphics card firmware to flash to your new graphics card).

    No, you don't need bootcamp for freedos whatsoever. You boot your computer from the freedos live cd or an usb stick, so no bootcamp needed here. It's only for Windows.

    Your procedure for flashing the card, assuming you have the proper firmware will be:
    1. Move the current graphics card to another slot in the computer (use the top slot, currently it sits in the bottom one)
    2. Install the PC card that will be flashed into the bottom slot, remember the power cable(s) to the graphics card, it will need at least one if not two, here's where you attach the power cable to the mainboard (kinda tricky, image via http://www.macvidcards.com):
    [​IMG]
    3. Hook up your display to the OLD card
    4. Boot up to Bootcamp Windows or Freedos
    5. Flash the NEW card (both atiflash and its Windows counterpart will only communicate with an ATI/AMD card, so you're safe)
    6. After a successful flash, shut down Windows or just power down the computer.
    7. Replace the display cable and hook it up to the NEW card.
    8. Start the Mac as usual and boot to Mac OS. If you could see the grey screen with the Apple logo, you did well, go to #10.
    9. If you didn't see the logo, you need to search for more compatible firmware file, once you get ahold of it, go to 4.
    10. You may now remove the OLD card and pop up a beer.

    1. Nope.
    2. Nope.
    3. Any will do. SATA 600 is backwards compatible with SATA 300 interface in the Mac Pro, a SATA 150 drive will work as well, since the SATA 300 interface in the Mac Pro will downgrade to 150 automatically.

    No. You need to do this in the Mac Pro, running from the Lion. Mavericks works only on Intel Macs, so there's no way to install it on using a G5.
    You can, however, try to point the installer to the Leopard disk installed in the Mac Pro. While I have never tried this scenario, I think the installer is smart enough to replace the system files and applications, while keeping the rest intact.

    No, wait. It will not. A G5 disk is formatted in a way that is not bootable in a Mac Pro, so in order to install a working copy of Mavericks it needs to be formatted clean (with GUID partition type, as opposed to the earlier Apple Partition Map type used in G5).
     
  24. basilt thread starter macrumors regular

    basilt

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2016
    #24
    Hm... first of all many thanks for the replies back !

    I will use freedos for a start, sounds faster and safer for now) after i get the card with a proper usb drive. Can i use 2GB or 4GB small usb's or do i have to go with the >8GB flash for bootable windows due to s/w taking lot of space for the card flash ?

    In the above photo you forwarded, i see the cable sockets ok, thanks for that !
    BUT i also noticed something that puzzled me some weeks ago....

    When i opened my macpro 2 stickers fall out of the case. Both black labeled 1,2. And now... i see them in the image you attached !
    Do you know what cables are those with the black stickers numbered 1,2 so i can write notes down and make 2 stickers for those please ?

    Now, another quick question for your experitse skills !
    To your opinion, what model(s) and brand of a nice good graphics card maybe max 150 euros, used,
    that can be flashed, and show all these damn boot screens etc., would you suggest.

    I think i must go for the 3GB ram on the cards to end my memory problems with future FCP or FCPX etc. programs.
    It seems better have a card etc ready, then do the OSX install and then upgrade the CPU's.

    Or do you sell any of your used cards if you still own that i can buy via paypal ?

    I expect some cash from a job and will put it for the card purchase and a speaker replacement for my mac first.

    Thanks again pal !
     
  25. hwojtek macrumors 65816

    hwojtek

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Location:
    A small rural village in western Poland
    #25
    Freedos is like 30 MEGAbytes, atiflash.exe and the firmware is about 500 kilobytes, so any USB stick will do. The only thing is that some USB memory sticks boot nicely and some don't. I have no clue why is it like this. I once had like 5 different sticks with exactly the same data layout contents and two of them booted OK, three didn't.

    The numbers you've encountered are numbers for Airport (wifi) antennae. While Apple insists they are numbered for a reason, a lot of users (myself included) think the numbers were assigned at random and do not mean a thing. Oddly enough, my Airport card works best when number 2 and BT is connected, BT standing for bluetooth. The BT module, on the other hand, is more than happy with number 1 connected. Short read: if your wifi works, you don't need to care.

    For 150 Euros I think you're looking into ATI 6850 - maybe even 7950 territory. Take a look on the http://www.macvidcards.com website. Yes, they are more expensive, but there is a LOT of research put into these cards (this are the ones of the small number of people who actually create the firmware more or less from scratch). This is your starting point in regards of pricing of a drop-in, flashed card of good quality. I do not trade cards (sadly, seems I could drop my management consulting job and live off video cards, LOL). Perhaps you might consider macvidcards mail-in service?

    I believe if you'd find a "reference design" or "Sapphire" 7850, 7950, 7970, there is a lot of firmware you'd be able to find online. I can help you out with some 7950 and 7970 firmware I have for some Sapphire and VTX cards; the http://netkas.org forums are an indispensable source of firmware files for various cards as well.

    The good news is: if the card comes from the ATI/AMD 79x0 family and there is no suitable Mac firmware, there is an extremely easy way to create a working firmware file using the dump of the original firmware and a smart script, that patches it with the necessary code for Macs. The only requirement is that the card has a 128 kbytes firmware flash memory, which happens 99.9% anyway.

    By the way - flashing the card for Mac does not replace the "PC" code, so the card is good for Mac OS, Windows, or any other operating system you may fancy.
     

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