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Pro 15 and 17 versus XPS 16

It's an honest mistake for people to make. When the Macbook Air first came out they did have some customized Intel form factor cpu that no other machine had. And obviously back in the PowerPC days there weren't really PC machines that used those chips.
 
theNEOone said:
You say that MS made Vista flashier but less useful - I haven't found that to be true. Better computer management, easier networking, file sharing, WMC connectivity, wireless management, etc.

=|
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I just HATE the new layout of almost everything. ESPECIALLY in control panel.

I also have several problems ive never been able to solve most likely related to driver issues like my sound randomly being lost, and drivers dissapearing once in a while. Not to mention my explorer crashes literally at least 5 times a day.

No its not a terrible OS, but man do the little things make it a pain in the ass.
 
theNEOone said:
.just like Apple should ditch the b.s aac format. Can we get iTunes songs in mp3 now that the Apple store is going DRM free? Please?
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Actually, AAC is MP4, the heir to MP3. It's an open format. It's only the DRM on iTunes that aren't open (obviously – otherwise there would be no point).

Anyway, as far as lossy formats goes and in relation to to music, AAC/MP4 is usually preferable. Speech or specific single instruments are a whole 'nother matter.
 
People (here) will hate it simply because it's either Dell or Microsoft. 90% of the people here drink Apple kool-aid (and why not, this is a Mac forum). It deserves a fair shot indeed. Looks like a nice piece of equipment.
 
TuffLuffJimmy said:
Seriously? You'd be willing to pay a thousand extra dollars on an inferior machine just because it has OS X? What a waste.

Computers these days, even Windows, don't really have many issues with malware, and they can mostly all run the same apps or comparable apps. The more I think about it the more I realize that the OS wars are coming to an end without a winner. Neither OS is really that much better than its competitor.
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I really don't understand why you are drinking so much Windows kool-aid today but frequent a Mac forum?
It's really amazing how the OP can take a computer he only saw on the web and compare it to the 17"MBP and some of the others including YOU will have the nerve to say the MBP is $1000 more. That's ridiculous!!!

Oh, nevermind that nobody (including the OP) has seen this Dell in person yet, nevermind that we have no idea how good the screen looks, nevermind that we have no idea the build quality, nevermind that we have no idea how much flex is in the keyboard or give in the screen hinge. Nevermind how noisy the fans could be or how hot it might get and nevermind the quality of paint used on the Dell that might chip off at an early state. Just because the Dell uses around the same hardware parts doesn't mean that they are of the same quality, not every hard drive is made the same, but nevermind that.


No, nevermind any of those things, your ignorance is blissful. You will still give props to something that you've only seen on the internet and never tried but in the case of the 17" MBP (which I've only seen since I went to Macworld) which you haven't seen in person you will talk crap about by using the term "Inferior" and say it's $1000 more than something you haven't even tried. Gimme a break. :rolleyes:
 
This is a Mac forum so please dont come here and tell us what to think about Windows, we've already made our decisions, or we wouldnt be members here.
 
HLdan said:
I really don't understand why you are drinking so much Windows kool-aid today but frequent a Mac forum?
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First off: I love OS X. Does that mean I hate Windows? Nope. I'm not drinking anyone's kool-aid. I like both platforms and can see minor advantages of each one, I never said Windows was better, and even if I did I would still have every right to be on this forum. If no one had differing opinions these threads would be pretty boring and just full of a bunch of yes men.

It's really amazing how the OP can take a computer he only saw on the web and compare it to the 17"MBP and some of the others including YOU will have the nerve to say the MBP is $1000 more. That's ridiculous!!!
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Ummm it's not ridiculous. If you spec them similarly (even with the Macbook Pro's weak graphics card) the Pro comes out $1,000 more.

Oh, nevermind that nobody (including the OP) has seen this Dell in person yet, nevermind that we have no idea how good the screen looks, nevermind that we have no idea the build quality, nevermind that we have no idea how much flex is in the keyboard or give in the screen hinge. Nevermind how noisy the fans could be or how hot it might get and nevermind the quality of paint used on the Dell that might chip off at an early state. Just because the Dell uses around the same hardware parts doesn't mean that they are of the same quality, not every hard drive is made the same, but nevermind that.
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Most on this forum (obviously not you) have not seen the new 17 incher. So I think it is 'fair' to compare the two. Especially since we can just judge from similar Dell machines that we have had contact with. Hold up! Did you just suggest that Apple uses better hard disks than Dell?? bwahahahahaha


No, nevermind any of those things, your ignorance is blissful. You will still give props to something that you've only seen on the internet and never tried but in the case of the 17" MBP (which I've only seen since I went to Macworld) which you haven't seen in person you will talk crap about by using the term "Inferior" and say it's $1000 more than something you haven't even tried. Gimme a break. :rolleyes:
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Never did I say that the Macbook Pro was inferior. He just said he'd buy anything with OS X (kool-aid) and I asked even if it was inferior and cost $1,000 more.

The new Macbook Pro is a shiny new beast machine, that I may be picking up at some point, probably rev. b since I won't be needing it for around 9 months. There's no reason to throw a hissy-fit over my opinion btw. :rolleyes:
 
That thing is fugly compared to a MBP IMO, and as others pointed out it runs Windows :( but if people are considering things like that instead of Macs, more power to you, it puts Apple on their toes ;)
 
new macbook pro 17

i prefer new macbook pro 17 even if he cost the twice of the dell

reason

1-leopard
2-try to sell this dell in 1 year or 2 on ebay , how much it gone worth , less than half 500usd
3-try to sell the new macbook pro 17 in 1 year or 2 , maybe 2000usd

4-try to sell it in 5 years time
dell-100usd
macbook pro17 - 1000usd

buying a macbook is not about money, but still apple wins.:D
 
The general user experience on a mac is a lot better than a Dell imo, and I use both for the same tasks (design) freelance and at work respectively.

I had to use a dell because work have a contract and our IT guys are clueless windows fanboys that dont give and Apple products the time of day even though they are better suited for design work.

So you see, its compounded by the fact that anyone with an MSCDN (or whatever the hell qualification it is) thinks that windows is the be all and end all.

But its not.

I could easily make that difference in price back with a better workflow and general satisfaction using a mac in comparison to this plasticy piece of **** im typing on right now.

Plus anyone taking colour in design seriously will be either be using an external monitor anyway, or has already been using a mac prior and anything would be an improvement anyway...
 
wow. i'm amazed at how much effort you all expend into defending your opinion against an anonymous nobody on the internet.

it would be hilarious if the "pro-pc" person was actually a "pro-mac" person who was just playing devil's advocate and wasting other people's time and getting them riled up for no good reason.

I will say that if you are on a budget, pcs are hard to ignore. I mean, when you see $300-400 laptops every week in your sunday paper, but then little timmy wants his parents to spend 4-5x that amount on a mac, which at the end of the day, sends the same emails, listens to the same music, and surfs the same web.

oh, and mommy and daddy are in financial limbo like most of the country.

in the end, i consider my mac a luxury i am thankful for. i switched 5 years ago or so when the mac mini debuted, and i haven't looked back, but MAN, it would be nice to spend $600 on a 17" laptop.
 
Remember weight is important here as well.

The Macbook Pro 17" is the lightest 17" in the world which would be a huge plus if I needed a 17" notebook for some heavy work whilst on the road.

I usually make the argument about the cost of finding Windows equivalents of iLife, and I think thats even truer today with the new iLife 09. You can't do a fair comparison without mentioning software.

Not to mention 8 hours battery life.

It is a nice looking piece of kit I'll give it that, but the Macbook Pro is still the best 17" notebook in the world in my view.
 
TuffLuffJimmy said:
Seriously? You'd be willing to pay a thousand extra dollars on an inferior machine just because it has OS X? What a waste.

Computers these days, even Windows, don't really have many issues with malware, and they can mostly all run the same apps or comparable apps. The more I think about it the more I realize that the OS wars are coming to an end without a winner. Neither OS is really that much better than its competitor.
Click to expand...

I take it you don't work on a computer.

And yes, I would. Just like I paid 300 bucks for an intuos so I wouldn't have to scan paper or draw with a mouse. How quickly and efficiently I can work on a computer determines how quickly I get paid.

I had to use XP while waiting for Adobe to release the universal version of Flash. Working with bunches of files and keeping everything organized in Windows was hell. Exposé alone is worth 1000 bucks to me.
 
Must say I'm liking that Dell notebook. Don't mind the fact its Windows. Vista SP1 is actually not bad and Windows 7 looks to be a hell of a lot better (better than OSX?) OK it won't have iLife but the only thing I use from that is iPhoto anyway.

I am in need of a new notebook mind. My current machine (1st Gen 15-inch MBP) has got a few problems :( few dead pixels, SuperDrive no longer reading media and only half the keyboard backlight is working). Thing is I can easily configure that Dell notebook to around £1200 so I might as well buy (if I could afford it now) a MBP for £1300 and not have the hassle of converting everything back to Windows.
 
Michael CM1 said:
To me they are, but it's still hard to straight-up compare those two notebooks.

I forgot to mention the extra $50-100 you'll have to spend on security software, then $20 or whatever a year to update that crap. Bluetooth is another $20, and yes, I use it every day.

As I said, I wouldn't spend $2,800 on a computer unless it was one of these for work. I have a 15-inch MBP that I got for $1,800. It has given me infinitely less trouble than the HP and Dell computers I had prior to it, and I still can't get over Apple replacing my dad's logic board and sensors on it for FREE even though it was 3 1/2 years old. Apple's service beats Dell's and especially HP's, which makes the "premium" like a little insurance policy.
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Or they could run AVG for free.

And to be honest, if you get the MBP, your going to spend more in adapters trying to connect it to other displays.

As for Vista, this is getting so old.... case of everyone jumping on the bandwagon, in its current state it is very stable. And Windows 7 looks very good.

I have an Apple and my mate has a dell, i have not seen any difference in service. I actually was impressed that when his HD died they offered to send him a new one in the post if he wanted to replace it, and i have to deal with a apple genius that half the time knows less about the MBP then i do. Though yes Apple customer service is more polite, like Disney Staff.

I love the new MBP designs, but your would be really fooling yourself if you think the specs are inline with the rest of the market. If they were on par, the new line would be fantastic.

Apple is protecting its interest in Itunes and sale of video, the "bag of hurt" in relation to blueray is the loss in sales they would suffer through itunes. How every company can offer this option but not apple is amazing. They are protecting their interests.

One thing what i respect about other companies is that they give you configuration options to build a computer for your needs. Apple treats its users like kids and tells them what system will meet their needs,

Most PCs are better value then macs, no questions about this. IF you want to run OS X you have no option, your going to have to pay a hefty premium for it, but hey its shiny.
 
First, the configuration most comparable to a 17" MBP is $2,069. You need to add the 1920x1080 display, the 2.8GHz CPU, and Bluetooth. So your "$1000" MBP price difference is actually more like $700.

Second, the MBP has several hardware advantages:

1. a superior video card, along with the ability to run on integrated graphics to save power
2. a FW800 port
3. more than twice the battery life
4. a larger, 17" 1920x1200 (16:10) screen, rather than the 16" 1920x1080 (16:9) of the Dell
5. the ability to drive a 2560x1600 external monitor
6. a slight weight edge, despite the larger screen and better battery
7. much thinner

The Dell's design is horrible. Any laptop with both leather (!) and a gaudy silver racing stripe is not something I want to be seen in public with.

And, of course, there is the OS X vs. Windows difference. At this point, I mildly prefer OS X itself, but I *vastly* prefer OS X applications. Generally speaking, OS X developers pay much more attention to detail than those on Windows.

For me, given all of the above, the extra $700 is a no-brainer.

And Sesshi: You've still never explained, after all this time, why it is that you think Mac laptops are support nightmares. Their failure rates are comparable with those of the rest of the industry.
 
dal20402 said:
First, the configuration most comparable to a 17" MBP is $2,069. You need to add the 1920x1080 display, the 2.8GHz CPU, and Bluetooth. So your "$1000" MBP price difference is actually more like $700.

Second, the MBP has several hardware advantages:

1. a superior video card, along with the ability to run on integrated graphics to save power
2. a FW800 port
3. more than twice the battery life
4. a larger, 17" 1920x1200 (16:10) screen, rather than the 16" 1920x1080 (16:9) of the Dell
5. the ability to drive a 2560x1600 external monitor
6. a slight weight edge, despite the larger screen and better battery
7. much thinner

The Dell's design is horrible. Any laptop with both leather (!) and a gaudy silver racing stripe is not something I want to be seen in public with.

And, of course, there is the OS X vs. Windows difference. At this point, I mildly prefer OS X itself, but I *vastly* prefer OS X applications. Generally speaking, OS X developers pay much more attention to detail than those on Windows.

For me, given all of the above, the extra $700 is a no-brainer.

And Sesshi: You've still never explained, after all this time, why it is that you think Mac laptops are support nightmares. Their failure rates are comparable with those of the rest of the industry.
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In which case, you might like to reimburse me for the time I've spent shlepping up to the Apple Store during even just the last month alone to get two 17" MBP's and a UB MBP (third replacement) looked at. Or maybe the time spent shlepping to the Store for all of my thankfully now departed Rev A & B Air's... I think it was about eight times in total in three Apple Stores over two continents.

Apple don't release support figures. The ones that the fanbois plaster in front of the likes of us are those by third-party vendors which if you think about it, don't represent any meaningful statistic.

The last time I had to call Sony support was in November, and that was the first time in at least 2 years. I can attest to it being a significantly less streamlined experience than Applecare, but you know what? I don't care because I very rarely have recourse to use them unlike Applecare. And I have had twice as many Sony notebooks than Apples for personal use - and about the same number of units for business use - since I started using MBP's.

I've seen the first batch of reviews of the 16 - looks like Dell have taken the Apple road to silence - increased heat. Apart from that, weight is lighter than I thought and the specs are still looking very decent. Still think that leather is a big mistake - but I think I'll go for one when it's released here. It's certainly more compelling than an MBP, especially as it runs (and is supported with) a proper application platform.
 
Well it looks like the XPS 1640's fifteen minutes of fame are now up. Somehow it went from barely any information available to a full review in less than a day. Weight turned out to be 6.5 pounds. The review can be found here:

http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=4764

Other than the RGB LED screen which is in a class by itself and pretty much better than anything else on the market and the Bluray, I think the MBP beats this thing in pretty much every other category. The keyboard even had some flex to it which is embarrassing for the price. The battery lasted a pitiful 2 hours under the 6 cell and a barely adequate 3 hours under the 9 cell. Machine looks kinda fugly when closed too, especially with the 9 cell sticking out from the back bottom.

They mentioned it got hot in the lap too while working the graphics card but I'm not sure if the MBP would be that comfortable on the lap either if you worked the dedicated graphics.

As others in the thread have pointed out, once you start configuring this machine to be more like the MBP the price difference narrows and the MBP doesn't seem so expensive (relatively speaking). And we wouldn't really be here if price was a problem. Dell's attempt to compete falls flat.

For reference here's the MBP review from the same site:

http://www.NotebookReview.com/default.asp?newsID=4684
 
tubbymac said:
Well it looks like the XPS 1640's fifteen minutes of fame are now up. Somehow it went from barely any information available to a full review in less than a day. Weight turned out to be 6.5 pounds. The review can be found here:

http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=4764

Other than the RGB LED screen which is in a class by itself and pretty much better than anything else on the market and the Bluray, I think the MBP beats this thing in pretty much every other category. The keyboard even had some flex to it which is embarrassing for the price. The battery lasted a pitiful 2 hours under the 6 cell and a barely adequate 3 hours under the 9 cell. Machine looks kinda fugly when closed too, especially with the 9 cell sticking out from the back bottom.

They mentioned it got hot in the lap too while working the graphics card but I'm not sure if the MBP would be that comfortable on the lap either if you worked the dedicated graphics.

As others in the thread have pointed out, once you start configuring this machine to be more like the MBP the price difference narrows and the MBP doesn't seem so expensive (relatively speaking). And we wouldn't really be here if price was a problem. Dell's attempt to compete falls flat.

For reference here's the MBP review from the same site:

http://www.NotebookReview.com/default.asp?newsID=4684
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I fail to see how a comparison between a real-life test and Apple's claims is anywhere near relevant. You aren't going to get more than a 4 hour runtime on the MBP at best in similar circumstances. The XPS16's problem is that it can be eked less than the MBP because it doesn't have an IGP to fall back on - but when running it in a similar mode as the test, I don't think there'll be a huge gulf between the 9-cell runtime and the MBP.
 
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