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Pro Display XDR on my 16" MacBook Pro M1 Max

N

Nomad110

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jun 16, 2012
166
49
Gooood afternoon everyone,

I made a similar post regarding this topic when the XDR first came out and I was driving it with my 16" MacBook Pro (Intel i9). You can see that post here.

To summarize that post, I was upgrading to the XDR from my trusty 27" LG UltraFine 5K displays which to my surprise had more usable UI screen real estate of 3200 x 1600 as compared to the 32" Pro Display XDR's usable UI real estate of 3008 x 1692. The reason is basically how Apple handles their HiDPI modes where the 5K display in "more space" mode used a <2x pixel doubling ratio and the Pro Display XDR used a proper 2x Pixel Double. Now that may be Apple's opinion of a perfect display but IMO it's just not enough UI real estate for a 32" display which I believe should be 4K (3840x2160).

Now never fear because I solved that problem using a WONDERFUL app I was happy to pay for called SwitchRes X (which is Apple Silicon optimized, YEA!). With my intel MBP I was able to simply turn on a custom resolution of 4K HiDPI mode with the XDR which forced the Mac to render 3840x2160 in HiDPI mode on the 6K display which looked marvelous.

Fast forward to receiving my absolutely maxed out MacBook Pro M1 Max and the situation isn't as elegant. It turns out that the new M1 Max Graphics system, although able to drive 3 of these amazing XDR displays, is limited to its max scaled resolution that it will drive. I did some research and it turns out that the late Intel MBPs could address a display up to 65,536 pixels wide as a scaled resolution. Unfortunately the the M1 Max (unsure about the others) are only able to address something much less than that. Turns out that it can not run the 7720 pixels wide required as a scaled resolution to drive my XDR display at 3840x2160 HiDPI. Therefor the option is simply unavailable in SwitchRes X.

Now perhaps someone smarter than I can explain why this limitation exists on such a beast of a GPU. Until then, I'll focus on what I did to resolve this since I just refuse to go back to the built in "more space" option of 3008x1692 on the XDR.

In SwitchResX there is a tab to enter in Custom Resolutions. Here you have the option to enter in specific resolutions that you can force the system to adopt (within reason). Since we knew that the scaled resolution width was something less than 7720 pixels wide I began trying 16:9 ratios of lesser resolutions that allowed for reasonable resolutions were the math would be reasonable and on 50 pixel intervals.

If the resolution was too high for the GPU to handle, it would be listed as invalid after a restart. If it was acceptable it would show active and be selectable in the Current Resolutions or under the Display Preferences when holding the Option key.

I found that the highest resolution that had reasonable scaled math and felt right on the screen was 7300 x 4106 which would give you a scaled resolution of 3650 x 2053. Now it wasn't the 4K I was wanting but close enough that I can't complain too much and actually am squinting less.

SwitchResX Panel.png


Display Pref.png


Now I'd love to hear from the smarter folks as to why this limitation exists on such a powerful machine. Will Apple ever patch this? As far as I can tell this means that you'll never be able to drive an 8K display even over the thunderbolt ports. Can't be right?

I've included a scaled down screen shot of my desktop at this resolution on the ProDisplay XDR for reference. I really like it hence why I'm not making too much of a stink about it...but I do worry about this machine driving future 8K monitor tech that you would certainly want to drive at 4k HiDPI.

ScreenShot.jpg


Thanks!
 
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I have found this article showing specs up to 6K. Perhaps there is no reason for Apple to allow scaled resolutions past 6K. For now this appears to be a slight benefit for the Intel platform and discreet AMD GPU...but I'm keeping my M1 Max (it's just too awesome!).
Untitled.jpg
 
Thank god I found this thread. I am absolutely going mad with the same issue. Posted in multiple threads the same issue. Absolutely disappointed Apple's own display doesn't support this. Atleast I will try SwithcResXand see the resolution works for me also

Thanks for posting this.
 
Nomad110 said:
As far as I can tell this means that you'll never be able to drive an 8K display even over the thunderbolt ports. Can't be right?
Click to expand...
Not necessarily. Running a native 7680×4320 display at the pixel-perfect 3840×2160 HiDPI mode (no downscaling required) is not the same as downscaling a 7680×4320 framebuffer (for 3840×2160 HiDPI) to a 6016×3384 display.

And Dell’s 8K display, for instance, has two 3840×4320 tiles, each requiring a separate DisplayPort 1.4 connection for 60 Hz, so driving that doesn’t actually require a single connection capable of doing 7680×4320.

Nomad110 said:
I found that the highest resolution that had reasonable scaled math and felt right on the screen was 7300 x 4106 which would give you a scaled resolution of 3650 x 2053.
Click to expand...
If you have the time (and patience), I would be interested in knowing what the actual limits to framebuffer width and height are on the M1 Max, irrespective of the aspect ratio. 7680×4320 for 3840×2160 HiDPI doesn't work according to your testing. But 7680×3240 for 3840×1620 HiDPI works. Thus:
  1. Assuming a maximum width of 7680 (for now), what's the maximum height allowed?
  2. Assuming a maximum height of 4106 (for now), what's the maximum width allowed?
 
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Thank You Nomad110. SwitchRes X worked for me with same resolution. Purchased the license as for now I am satisfied until apple solves this issue if ever.
 
Amethyst1 said:
Not necessarily. Running a native 7680×4320 display at the pixel-perfect 3840×2160 HiDPI mode (no downscaling required) is not the same as downscaling a 7680×4320 framebuffer (for 3840×2160 HiDPI) to a 6016×3384 display.

And Dell’s 8K display, for instance, has two 3840×4320 tiles, each requiring a separate DisplayPort 1.4 connection for 60 Hz, so driving that doesn’t actually require a single connection capable of doing 7680×4320.


If you have the time (and patience), I would be interested in knowing what the actual limits to framebuffer width and height are on the M1 Max, irrespective of the aspect ratio. 7680×4320 for 3840×2160 HiDPI doesn't work according to your testing. But 7680×3240 for 3840×1620 HiDPI works. Thus:
  1. Assuming a maximum width of 7680 (for now), what's the maximum height allowed?
  2. Assuming a maximum height of 4106 (for now), what's the maximum width allowed?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure that is possible as the display will only allow you to drive this aspect ratio...anything I'm missing here? How would I go about testing this?
 
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Nomad110 said:
I'm not sure that is possible as the display will only allow you to drive this aspect ratio...anything I'm missing here? How would I go about testing this?
Click to expand...
You can create and use non-16:9 scaled resolutions on a 16:9 display. I’ve tested 8191×8190 on a 3840×2160 display. macOS automatically takes care of the downscaling. Thanks again in advance. :)
 
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Amethyst1 said:
You can create and use non-16:9 scaled resolutions on a 16:9 display. I’ve tested 8191x8190 on a 3840x2160 display. macOS automatically takes care of the downscaling. Thanks again in advance. :)
Click to expand...
I've done 16384x16384 on a 4K display using a Radeon Pro W5700 connected to a Mac mini 2018. It was horribly slow and I had to set the cursor to the max size so I could see it.
 
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Owww thanks for this thread I have same issuse with same configuration. I does write in another post about this, but I will also post here what ham write there:

In fact is that Apple sell Devices define it self as PRO Devices but limited Pro users how they can work with them! I'm very disappointed about that, that i uses a new 2021 MacBook Pro 16 M1 MAX and a 32" Apple Display XDR (6K Display) but can not uses 4k in normal OR HiDPI on basic Systemmenü configuration! That absolutely nothing todo with Pro Device! When Apple will limited things like that they have to sell this as a endcustomer NORMAL Device not as PRO Device. Without Betterdummy there is NO way that i can use 4k in HiDPI with these Devices. Also without additional Software it also perhaps NOT possible to set 4k!! I can not believe in this but its reality...

There is another way to do 4k on this combination, with BetterDummy u can use 4k HDPI and all other things u need.
I just use it right now i write this.

Iam also in contact with Apple and reclaimed this issue. PLZ all of u users that have this issue PLZ call Apple and say that u want to talk with engineering Team or the SuperVisor/Superior. Let them make a research for you and reclaim that and say u want a answer AND a solution WHY 4k is NOT accessibly AT STOCK in System Settings. When we do not do that, Apple will never give us these Settings @ Stock OR the ability to do that with Apps like SwitchResX!

They attracting the 32" Pro Display XDR as a Film Producer Monitor. BUT have not 4K Resolution selectable in System Settings?!?! 4K is a standard they have to be implement that in this PRO Devices!

I do also have seen that the 32" Pro Display XDR is NOT running in 10Bit with M1Max connected. Can u test this on your sides? In SwitchResX there are only "Million Color" selectable! When I look at a 8bit and 16 bit Test Picture, i did not see any difference at all. I Think we are at 8 Bit!
 
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AironMan said:
They attracting the 32" Pro Display XDR as a Film Producer Monitor. BUT have not 4K Resolution selectable in System Settings?!?! 4K is a standard they have to be implement that in this PRO Devices!
Click to expand...
AFAIK if you're showing 4K content on the XDR in FCP etc. the video won't get scaled like the UI elements do, so you'll be able to show a 4K video at native 1:1 pixel resolution with 2K pixels of space around it for UI. If you show the video full screen it'll get scaled up to 6K, of course.
 
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alFR said:
AFAIK if you're showing 4K content on the XDR in FCP etc. the video won't get scaled like the UI elements do, so you'll be able to show a 4K video at native 1:1 pixel resolution with 2K pixels of space around it for UI. If you show the video full screen it'll get scaled up to 6K, of course.
Click to expand...
Yes, but can u work with that Ui around this? You can not really work with them its too small. Another case is to have 2 32" XDR to Display on one the UI and the another the 4K Video Material NATIV HDR
 
AironMan said:
Yes, but can u work with that Ui around this?
Click to expand...
No, the "4K" video will be shown at original size (1:1) but the UI around it will be scaled to that it's still usable. By the way, would you be interested in finding out what the actual maximum HiDPI resolution on M1 Max is? We know 3650×2053 works but 3840×2160 doesn't. But where is the actual limit, i.e. how close to 3840×2160 can we get?
 
Apple does only offer 3008 x 1692 HiDPI in System Settings. Next step is then 6k.

With BetterDummy you can set any resolution u want in HiDPI
 
AironMan said:
Apple does only offer 3008 x 1692 HiDPI in System Settings. Next step is then 6k.
Click to expand...
Yes. But with SwitchResX alone, 3650×2053 HiDPI can be achieved. I wonder if we can go even higher :) BetterDummy is great but not without its downsides.
 
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Nomad110 does make tests and say that 3650x2053 is actual the max possible HiDPI resolution.
I did not test these as much like him. I finally go with BetterDummy till Apple will fix that.

Wich downsides did u mean?
 
Hey @AironMan, BetterDummy has some downsides indeed - you are locked at 60Hz (not an issue for the XDR) and BetterDummy does not support HDR (as the underlying macOS APIs in use don't support it either at the moment) which is an issue on the XDR.


Amethyst1 said:
If you have the time (and patience), I would be interested in knowing what the actual limits to framebuffer width and height are on the M1 Max, irrespective of the aspect ratio. 7680×4320 for 3840×2160 HiDPI doesn't work according to your testing. But 7680×3240 for 3840×1620 HiDPI works. Thus:
  1. Assuming a maximum width of 7680 (for now), what's the maximum height allowed?
  2. Assuming a maximum height of 4106 (for now), what's the maximum width allowed?
Click to expand...

Can you add scaled resolution of 7680x4320 to SwitchResX on M1? I was trying to achieve that (by adding scaled resolutions) but I could not get it to work it always said Invalid (I've been a SwitchResX user on Intel for many years btw, that app was a lifesaver :)).

BetterDummy 1.0.10 beta allows for up to 16Kx16K resolution which works on M1 (with 1:1 aspect ratio - note that this is super slow on my base model M1 MBA, but lower resolutions going over 8K vertically to some extent seems to work fine), so technically these can be handled by M1 it seems.
 
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stevemr123 said:
Hey @AironMan, BetterDummy has some downsides indeed - you are locked at 60Hz (not an issue for the XDR) and BetterDummy does not support HDR (as the underlying macOS APIs in use don't support it either at the moment) which is an issue on the XDR.




Can you add scaled resolution of 7680x4320 to SwitchResX on M1? I was trying to achieve that (by adding scaled resolutions) but I could not get it to work it always said Invalid (I've been a SwitchResX user on Intel for many years btw, that app was a lifesaver :)).

BetterDummy 1.0.10 beta allows for up to 16Kx16K resolution which works on M1 (with 1:1 aspect ratio - note that this is super slow on my base model M1 MBA, but lower resolutions going over 8K vertically to some extent seems to work fine), so technically these can be handled by M1 it seems.
Click to expand...
Look here: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...5c-w-base-14-mbp-m1-pro.2322619/post-30603719
 
Nomad110 said:
Gooood afternoon everyone,

I made a similar post regarding this topic when the XDR first came out and I was driving it with my 16" MacBook Pro (Intel i9). You can see that post here.

To summarize that post, I was upgrading to the XDR from my trusty 27" LG UltraFine 5K displays which to my surprise had more usable UI screen real estate of 3200 x 1600 as compared to the 32" Pro Display XDR's usable UI real estate of 3008 x 1692. The reason is basically how Apple handles their HiDPI modes where the 5K display in "more space" mode used a
Now never fear because I solved that problem using a WONDERFUL app I was happy to pay for called SwitchRes X (which is Apple Silicon optimized, YEA!). With my intel MBP I was able to simply turn on a custom resolution of 4K HiDPI mode with the XDR which forced the Mac to render 3840x2160 in HiDPI mode on the 6K display which looked marvelous.

Fast forward to receiving my absolutely maxed out MacBook Pro M1 Max and the situation isn't as elegant. It turns out that the new M1 Max Graphics system, although able to drive 3 of these amazing XDR displays, is limited to its max scaled resolution that it will drive. I did some research and it turns out that the late Intel MBPs could address a display up to 65,536 pixels wide as a scaled resolution. Unfortunately the the M1 Max (unsure about the others) are only able to address something much less than that. Turns out that it can not run the 7720 pixels wide required as a scaled resolution to drive my XDR display at 3840x2160 HiDPI. Therefor the option is simply unavailable in SwitchRes X.

Now perhaps someone smarter than I can explain why this limitation exists on such a beast of a GPU. Until then, I'll focus on what I did to resolve this since I just refuse to go back to the built in "more space" option of 3008x1692 on the XDR.

In SwitchResX there is a tab to enter in Custom Resolutions. Here you have the option to enter in specific resolutions that you can force the system to adopt (within reason). Since we knew that the scaled resolution width was something less than 7720 pixels wide I began trying 16:9 ratios of lesser resolutions that allowed for reasonable resolutions were the math would be reasonable and on 50 pixel intervals.

If the resolution was too high for the GPU to handle, it would be listed as invalid after a restart. If it was acceptable it would show active and be selectable in the Current Resolutions or under the Display Preferences when holding the Option key.

I found that the highest resolution that had reasonable scaled math and felt right on the screen was 7300 x 4106 which would give you a scaled resolution of 3650 x 2053. Now it wasn't the 4K I was wanting but close enough that I can't complain too much and actually am squinting less.

View attachment 1883893

View attachment 1883894

Now I'd love to hear from the smarter folks as to why this limitation exists on such a powerful machine. Will Apple ever patch this? As far as I can tell this means that you'll never be able to drive an 8K display even over the thunderbolt ports. Can't be right?

I've included a scaled down screen shot of my desktop at this resolution on the ProDisplay XDR for reference. I really like it hence why I'm not making too much of a stink about it...but I do worry about this machine driving future 8K monitor tech that you would certainly want to drive at 4k HiDPI.

View attachment 1883899

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Can’t get the HiDPI mode of this resolution to work on M1 mini.

M1 max comes in 2 weeks hopefully that works.
 
Made an account just to contribute to the thread here.

Also with a M1 MBP w/ XDR, and through a bunch of manual testing last night (couldn't find any documentation on what resolutions the XDR will accept, it's very finicky), I was able to find one other resolution that works in SwitchResX @ 7460 x 4196, or 3730 x 2098 HiDPI which gets *pretty* close to 4K's resolution. My sweet spot is actually somewhere between 4K and 5K but I couldn't find a number that'd work.

(I've talked with the BetterDummy dev as well, it's a good workaround but really messes up Spaces on OS sleep and I got tired of having to move my windows every time I wake up the laptop)
 
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allenmhc said:
Also with a M1 MBP w/ XDR, and through a bunch of manual testing last night (couldn't find any documentation on what resolutions the XDR will accept, it's very finicky), I was able to find one other resolution that works in SwitchResX @ 7460 x 4196, or 3730 x 2098 HiDPI
Click to expand...
Is this the highest 16:9 HiDPI mode accepted?
 
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