Problem installing OS X 10.1 (Puma) on Blueberry iBook G3

Discussion in 'macOS' started by LittleJoe, May 11, 2007.

  1. LittleJoe macrumors regular

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    May 23, 2006
    Location:
    Worthington, OH
    #1
    Ive tried installing OS X 10.1 (Puma) on my iBook G3 a numbers of times to no avail. I have an original blueberry iBook. Ive seen many people successfully install os X on their BlueBerry so Im not sure what I am doing wrong.

    I did a clean install of OS 9 with the original restore disc.
    I then updated to 9.1 with the download from apples support site.
    I then did the firmware update.
    Everything in OS 9.1 works great.

    I put in the OS X Puma disc and it prompts me to restart so that the installation can begin.
    I get the "happy mac" icon for a long while and the cd drive just chugs away.
    Then the color wheel appears for while and the cd drive keeps on chugin.
    The cd drive starts to slow down a bit and the screen switches to the solid blue OS X color with the cursor frozen in the upper left corner of the screen.
    The CD drive then completely slows down and nothing happens... at all... ever. It just sits like that... its been sitting like that for a good 30 mins now, nothing happening, no hard drive movement (other than idle spin), no optical drive movement.

    Ive tried this several times now. The only thing I can do is hold the power button down to force shutdown. If I just let it restart it goes back into the OS X install then gives me an error that says the installation failed. If I boot back into OS 9 everything is peachy and I start the process over.

    (and yes Ive tried earlier with OS 9.2.2... same deal)

    What in the world am I doing wrong?
     
  2. 7on macrumors 601

    7on

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    Dress Rosa
    #2
    is it an optical drive that isn't standard? Ie. non-oem? sometimes an oem drive won't have the proper firmware and sometimes it can't boot cds. Though I had one that would boot from a CD in about 15 minutes.
     
  3. LittleJoe thread starter macrumors regular

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    May 23, 2006
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    Worthington, OH
    #3
    It is the original drive. It boots from the OS 9 discs no problem. I can bring up the OS X disc in the boot menu no problem, it even shows the X on the icon. Still same problem.
     
  4. RacerX macrumors 65832

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    #4
    Two suggestions...
    1. Remove the battery while installing, and
    2. remove the additional memory.
    Mac OS X v10.1 will complain, but it will install on a system with only 64 MB of memory.

    Additional suggestions...
    • Run the system for a little while with only 64 MB of memory after installing 10.1 to make sure it is functioning correctly, then
    • reinstall the additional memory and see if your system has any issues.
    The thing about Mac OS X is that it is quite a bit more picky about the quality of memory you are using than Mac OS 9 is. If it turns out the memory is bad, then you should replace it.
     
  5. MisterMe macrumors G4

    MisterMe

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2002
    Location:
    USA
    #5
    Your signature reveals that your iBook G3 has only 4 GB of hard drive space. Some of this is consumed by MacOS 9. However, 4 GB is woefully inadequate for MacOS X and may be the reason you are having so much trouble trying to install it.
     
  6. Cromulent macrumors 603

    Cromulent

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    #6
    4GBs should be fine. I have run 10.3 on my G3 bronze Powerbook and it worked fine (albeit a tad slow).
     
  7. RacerX macrumors 65832

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    #7
    Of course we should keep in mind that 10.1 was back when the whole Mac OS X installation fit on a single CD. Both 9.x and 10.1 shouldn't take up much more than 1 GB of space on a drive.

    After 10.1 things started getting larger (mainly due to the increased number of default languages in the installation). 10.2 was a two CD install, 10.3 was three CDs and 10.4 brought us to a single DVD.

    I've installed Mac OS X DP4, PB, 10.0 and 10.1 on a 2 GB drive without any issues.

    Plus it doesn't sound like the installation had gotten to the point where the internal hard drive would be a factor. It sounds like it was freezing up while trying to boot off the CD to the point where the GUI for the installer loads.
     
  8. LittleJoe thread starter macrumors regular

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    #8
    Thanks for the advice. I will try it again with the battery and memory removed and see what happens.
     
  9. MisterMe macrumors G4

    MisterMe

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2002
    Location:
    USA
    #9
    This is not true--not the default, anyway. I have installed every commercial release of MacOS X 10 on my PowerBook G3 (Pismo) up through MacOS 10.3.9 while keeping and upgrading MacOS 9, if necessary. MacOS 9 requires about 300 MB. MacOS X preinstalled on the CD is compressed. Installed on your hard drive, it comes in at least 3 GB. The hard drive in my PowerBook is 6 GB. Running MacOS X 10.3, it is useful only for surfing the web, email, and running Microsoft Office v.X. Downloading songs from iTunes? Forget about it! I have eliminated my non-English printer drivers and such simply to be able to run Software Update. However, I have not done any radical surgery to my installation. To fit my current installation on a 4 GB hard drive, I would have to eliminate 2 GB of software. The result would be a minimally useful computer which would be of no use to me.
     
  10. LittleJoe thread starter macrumors regular

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    May 23, 2006
    Location:
    Worthington, OH
    #10
    Argghh... same results. Im starting to think there is something wrong with my optical drive. Right before everything stops it just makes like 5 distinct and loud chugging noises. Chug Chug Chug Chug Chug .................. I dont know if Chug is the best word to describe it, but you know how old CD-ROMs sound when they are cranking away at a disc. I tried another copy of OS X I have and the drive made some CRAZY noises non-stop and I just ended up shutting it down.
     
  11. LittleJoe thread starter macrumors regular

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    May 23, 2006
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    Worthington, OH
    #11
    I will be upgrading to 60gb very shortly, im just toying around with this at the moment to see if I can get it to work. After OS 9 was installed it said I have over 3 full gigs of free space. I know these came stock with a 3 or 6 gb hd... so i must have a 6?

    EDIT:
    I've got the 6gb HDD with 4.8gb of free room, but someone else where said its not enough space as OS X trys to image the whole drive before installing (or something like that) and that I should format the drive and then try booting from the OS X disc... sooo thats what I will try later today.
     
  12. RacerX macrumors 65832

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    #12
    Ummm... do I have to install 10.1 on a drive to really prove this?

    And how are you thinking that a 10.3 installation is comparable to a 10.1 installation? And where in the world did you get the idea that 10.0/10.1 had 3 GB of stuff compressed on a single CD?

    If we really need the actual size of 10.1, I'll install it to give you those numbers, but as I still use 10.2 as my primary OS maybe those numbers will prove my point...

    Mac OS X v10.2.8 size... 1105 MB​

    This is on my Wallstreet, on a 7.7 GB partition of my 40 GB main hard drive. Both 10.0 and 10.1 were considerably smaller, as was the Public Beta and the Developer Previews before them. The Rhapsody operating systems were even smaller, and OPENSTEP/NEXTSTEP were even smaller than those.

    Or maybe we can go off the 10.0 and 10.1 Read Mes that says that at least 1.5 GB of space is required. And a lot of that space is for swap files while Mac OS X is running.

    Plus I highly doubt if many people have as much experience with installing Mac OS X as I do as it is one of the main things I do for a living. I've installed 10.0 more than 20 times, 10.1 (and 10.1 Server) more than 50 times, 10.2 (and 10.2 Server) more than 50 times, 10.3 (and 10.3 Server) more than 30 times and 10.4 more than 15 times since their releases.

    Some how, I think by now I have a pretty good idea of what types of systems (and what size drives) can handle each of them.

    Odd, my Applications folder on my Wallstreet is only 1.65 GB... and I have the following apps installed:
    • NeoOffice
    • Photoshop 7
    • GoLive 6
    • LiveMotion 2
    • Acrobat 5
    • AppleWorks 6
    • Netscape
    • Firefox
    • iTunes
    • Create
    • iPhoto
    • iMovie
    • iCal
    • OmniWeb
    • OmniGraffle
    • PStill
    • PhotoToWeb
    • OmniOutliner
    • ToyViewer
    • PixelNhance
    • RBrowser
    • Mail
    • Curator
    • Watson
    • TIFFany 3 Professional
    • QuickTime Pro
    • Sound Studio
    • TimeEqualsMoney
    • Nisus Thesaurus
    • OmniDictionary
    • Chess
    • Global Warmth
    • MacJournal
    • BBEdit Lite
    • Preview
    • TextEdit
    • WebGrabber
    ... and more. All of that is only 1.65 GB. Are you saying that Office and browsers take up more than 2 GB of space? :eek:


    :rolleyes:

    Actually I'm glad I looked at this stuff... how in the world could I have forgotten to remove iPhoto and iMovie! :eek: Couple of space hogs that I would never use.
     
  13. MisterMe macrumors G4

    MisterMe

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2002
    Location:
    USA
    #13
    If you read my post, then you know that I have installed in succession MacOS X 10.0, MacOS X 10.1, MacOS X 10.2, and MacOS X 10.3 on my Pismo. The Pismo has 6 GB hard drive space compared to the OP's 4 GB. With 2 GB more space to play with than the OP, MacOS X 10.1 was a tight fit. My Pismo also has 256 MB more RAM (384 MB total) than the OP's iBook (128 MB total). This relieves some of the stress on the virtual memory system and its resulting loss of available hard drive space.

    Do I doubt for one microsecond doubt that you installed MacOS X 10.1 on your computer? Absolutely not. Do I believe that the tight squeeze is the cause of the OP's problems? It is a definite possibility.
     
  14. RacerX macrumors 65832

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    #14
    Well, the original 4 GB drive that came with my Wallstreet was the drive I tested 10.2 on when it was released... not only that, but myself and another consultant I know installed 10.1 (twice), 10.0 with a 10.1 upgrade (once), 10.1 with a 10.2 upgrade (once) and 10.2 (twice) on that 4 GB drive on August 24, 2002... the day after we had gotten our copy of 10.2 from Apple. We did all those installations to test how they compared.

    The final installation of 10.2 was joined by:
    • Photoshop 7
    • GoLive 6
    • LiveMotion 2
    • Acrobat 5
    • AppleWorks 6
    • iTunes
    • Create
    • OmniWeb
    • PStill
    • ToyViewer
    • PixelNhance
    • RBrowser
    • Curator
    • Watson
    on that 4 GB drive as that system was left up and running for the next 21 days. At the time my Wallstreet had the same 512 MB of memory it currently has. Beyond testing if 10.2 was stable, the test was also to see if 10.2 was good enough to replace Rhapsody 5.6 which was on my 8 GB drive that I had been using in my Wallstreet up to that point.

    To be honest, I wanted 10.2 to fail.

    Not only was the system originally only supposed to last two weeks without restarting for anything (which I extended to three weeks), I had my wife use it and I loaned it out to a friend to use on an interview (he is a graphic designer who needed a system to show his work with).

    At the end of 21 days (actually the uptime was around 21 days and 7 hours as I recall), I shutdown my system, put my 8 GB drive back in, backed up my important files, erased Rhapsody from the drive and installed 10.2 on it. I used that exact same installation of 10.2 on this system until the drive died in November of 2005 (which was when I replaced it with this 40 GB drive).


    But beyond the fact that I've had that much experience with both 10.1 and 10.2 on a 4 GB drive... the original poster hadn't gotten to the point were the drive size was a factor in the installation. It sounds (sadly) like the CD-ROM drive is either dying or is having a hard time reading the CD (which may be the Mac OS X 10.1 CD itself causing the issue... from poor production quality of the CD).

    I wasn't doubting that you had those systems on your Pismo, but you were taking exception with my comment that both 10.1 and 9.x shouldn't take up much more than 1 GB of space when installed.

    I use a 2 GB exterior SCSI drive as a test/practice target for installing versions of Mac OS X (Developer Preview through to 10.2) and Rhapsody (5.0 to 5.6). At no time have I had the type of issues that the original poster has discussed here.

    Would I use a 2 GB drive for a day to day Mac OS X system?

    No.

    Would I use a 4 GB drive for a day to day Mac OS X system?

    Not if I had a choice, but I most likely could (and did at one time).


    And we should also note that if the level of difficulty of changing out a hard drive on a Wallstreet/Lombard/Pismo is around a 2, I'd say that the same task on an iBook rates about a 10.

    So would I live with a 4 GB drive on an iBook rather than putting in something bigger? You bet! I wouldn't take apart an iBook (any model) unless I was being paid*. :eek:


    * or returning a favor for a friend, which was the case the last time I took one apart.
     
  15. MisterMe macrumors G4

    MisterMe

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2002
    Location:
    USA
    #15
    Your computer has four times the RAM of the OP's computer. As such, it is much less likely to hit virtual memory which, in turn, preserves your precious hard drive free space. Do you really believe that you would be able to install MacOS X 10.1 on your computer's 4 GB hard drive with 3/4 of the computer's RAM removed?
     
  16. LittleJoe thread starter macrumors regular

    Joined:
    May 23, 2006
    Location:
    Worthington, OH
    #16
    Alright Alright everyone, simmer down....

    Anyway... Ive completely disassembled my clamshell to get to the damn HDD. I plan on swapping it out for a 20gb as this computer is really just for net/email when traveling (so as not to put my 17"mbp in harms way).

    How does one go about pre-installing OS X on a drive for a blueberry?
     
  17. RacerX macrumors 65832

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    #17
    "Believe"? Why would we even need to make any arguments based on faith? To this point I haven't.

    I've installed 10.1 on a 2 GB drive in a system with only 64 MB of memory.

    Sorry, just because you have to take your assertions on faith, doesn't mean that my assertions are also based on faith. I haven't put anything forward that I haven't tested in the real world in this thread.

    Your arguments here are based on your beliefs which are in turn based on a lack of real world experience. I, by contrast, merely recount my own personal experiences.

    But rather than continuing to make a faith-based argument, why not put your beliefs to the test yourself? The strength and tone of your arguments shows that the only proof you'll accept that your beliefs are in error is seeing it for yourself. Given that you should pit your beliefs against an empirical test to see if they actually hold up.

    But as long as you are arguing based on a belief rather than real world experience, I don't see how this can be resolved for you.


    As for me, heck, the last time I used my exterior 2 GB SCSI drive for a test installation was in early 2005 to see if a SCSI CD-ROM drive could be used to install 10.2 on a Beige G3 Desktop... which at the time had 128 MB of memory (but was originally set up with 64 MB before that). The exterior CD-ROM drive wasn't especially fast (and neither was the system, G3/233), but it installed nicely (showing that that type of set up could work).

    I've listed a number of hardware combinations in this thread... pick any you would like and attempt to show they don't work by setting up and trying to install Mac OS X as I claim to have.

    :rolleyes:

    Just think of the fame you'll get (and the shame I'll have to face) when you can show I was so wrong in what I said. ;)


    Short of pulling the hard drive and hooking it up to another computer... I have no ideas off hand.
     
  18. xsedrinam macrumors 601

    xsedrinam

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    #18
    I've had Panther installed on my iMac blueberry (4 gb HD) for several years, as well as on my Pismo 500 Mhz. My son runs all his GarageBand and iTunes stuff, plus Office 2004, fine. Of course I inserted an xCaret Expansion Bay HD in one of the bays, but the 6 g on the Pismo and 4 g HD on the iMac have handled it, fine.

    Don't see what all the fuss is about. :confused:
     
  19. LittleJoe thread starter macrumors regular

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    May 23, 2006
    Location:
    Worthington, OH
    #19
    I disassembled the BlueBook and installed a 20gb known good HDD.

    Ive got Jaguar retail discs and now im getting to and mostly through the installer, but the install keeps freezing at the same place! (about 75% thru) :mad:

    Ive erased, partitioned, verified, repaired, rebooted, and it still keeps freezing in the same place. Well freeze isnt the right word, it just dosen't move forward. If I let it sit the estimated remaining time just keeps getting higher and higher.

    When I open the log it gives an error 22 in regards to CoreAudio.

    I let it sit for an 30 mins... then I heard it restart, when I went over to the computer it was booting up and when the gray apple logo popped up it quickly went to the "NO" sign, the circle with the slash through it and nothing happens. The boot menu shows the OS X Hard Drive now and the boot disc in the optical drive, but it wont boot to the hdd, it just shows that NO sign.

    Anyone know what's going on? Im having the worst luck with this machine.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. MisterMe macrumors G4

    MisterMe

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2002
    Location:
    USA
    #20
    It has nothing to do with faith. Whether or not you can install MacOS X 10.1 on a Mac with only 128 MB RAM and only 4 GB hard drive space is a well-defined experiment.

    FWIW, the OP is the second user I have seen in the last couple of weeks who are frustrating in his attempt to install MacOS X 10.1 on a space-contrained computer which was otherwise compatible with the OS.

    I'll let slide the business about installing MacOS X 10.1 on a computer with half the RAM and half the hard drive space of the OP's iBook G3.
     
  21. LittleJoe thread starter macrumors regular

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    Worthington, OH
    #21
    Well I have 340mb of ram and now a 20gb hard drive... OS X has now "successfully" installed. But I get screen distortion after the apple logo pops up and everything freezes. :(

    PS Im using 10.2 now as the 10.1 discs were getting me nowhere.
     
  22. MisterMe macrumors G4

    MisterMe

    Joined:
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    #22
    Congratulations on a successful installation. As for your display distortion, have launched System Preferences and used the Displays preferences pane?
     
  23. LittleJoe thread starter macrumors regular

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    May 23, 2006
    Location:
    Worthington, OH
    #23

    I cant. Though the install says it was successful I cannot get the computer to boot into OS X. When the Dark Gray apple appears on the screen, a large distortion appears through the apple (horizontally across the screen) and also horizontally through where the load circle should be. The computer then freezes.

    This happens every time after a "successful" OS X install. Ive tried reloading OS 9, 9.1, 9.2 again, I even tried XPOSTFACTO and it would not work, it would not boot into the installer.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Powerbook 2,1 ???
     
  24. elppa macrumors 68040

    elppa

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    #24
    Are you sure you don't just have a dud CD?

    Perhaps it can't read something from the disk and is running into problems as a result.

    Also, that person that says every version of Mac OS X takes up at least 3GB is talking piffle.
     
  25. aquajet macrumors 68020

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    Feb 12, 2005
    Location:
    VA
    #25
    Have you tried booting your new installation without the extra RAM? Try that if you haven't. You can boot 10.2 with 64 mb, but you'll receive a warning message.
     

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