I think he may have ignore your comment on why you think we don't need 4K support on the apple tv..
I sure know I did!
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Production of Faster Apple TV 5 Rumored to Begin in Early 2016
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I think he may have ignore your comment on why you think we don't need 4K support on the apple tv..
I sure know I did!
A lot of disagreements in this thread about 4K.
1) Should Apple add 4K to an Apple TV? - yes, probably, there are some people that could benefit from it, personally I won't for several years to come.
2) What do you need to benefit from 4K - an appropriate size screen related to your viewing distance. This could be a say 70" plus set at a normal lounge viewing distance, a 24" pc monitor at a arms length or even a 55" TV when you stand in front of it in a shop.
3) Is there any 4K material out there? - not much and what content there is out there for streaming will be compressed and not accessible to a lot of connections. You may on the other hand shoot your own 4K home movies.
4) Can you tell the difference between a 55" 1080p and 4k tv at normal viewing distances? - most people don't have two TVs side by side in their house to make an objective statement. I had a chat with a salesman in a shop (yes they will usually tell you what you want to hear) I was standing a row back from two 55" TV's 1080p and 4K (normal lounge viewing distance for me) and both pictures looked the same to me detail wise, the assistant agreed. One did look better from a colour perspective. Both TV's were the same brand.
5) Can you be blown away by non 4K TVs? Yes, I was in a shop looking at a 55" OLED tv and the picture was just amazing.
6) Resolution wise, a 64" 4K TV is just the same as 4 x 32" panels that have not been cut.
7) Will I buy a 4K TV? Yes, when my new 60" tv is relegated to the rumpus area, I have a fast internet connection and the price of say 70-80" TV's come down in price and perhaps when OLED is 4K, so not for several years.
1) Should Apple add 4K to an Apple TV? - yes, probably, there are some people that could benefit from it, personally I won't for several years to come.
2) What do you need to benefit from 4K - an appropriate size screen related to your viewing distance. This could be a say 70" plus set at a normal lounge viewing distance, a 24" pc monitor at a arms length or even a 55" TV when you stand in front of it in a shop.
3) Is there any 4K material out there? - not much and what content there is out there for streaming will be compressed and not accessible to a lot of connections. You may on the other hand shoot your own 4K home movies.
4) Can you tell the difference between a 55" 1080p and 4k tv at normal viewing distances? - most people don't have two TVs side by side in their house to make an objective statement. I had a chat with a salesman in a shop (yes they will usually tell you what you want to hear) I was standing a row back from two 55" TV's 1080p and 4K (normal lounge viewing distance for me) and both pictures looked the same to me detail wise, the assistant agreed. One did look better from a colour perspective. Both TV's were the same brand.
5) Can you be blown away by non 4K TVs? Yes, I was in a shop looking at a 55" OLED tv and the picture was just amazing.
6) Resolution wise, a 64" 4K TV is just the same as 4 x 32" panels that have not been cut.
7) Will I buy a 4K TV? Yes, when my new 60" tv is relegated to the rumpus area, I have a fast internet connection and the price of say 70-80" TV's come down in price and perhaps when OLED is 4K, so not for several years.
4K makes great sense for Apple TV right now if it wants to stay relevant. If not it is going to lag behind everyone else. The new Apple TV just came out and it is already old tech that is lagging behind. Hence if it wants to stay relevant.
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I'm not too worried about 4K.
But the ATV4 has a much worse problem (for my purposes). The HDMI port does not provide enough power for portable HDMI-to-VGA adapters to work properly. I don't think this can be fixed with a software update. The hardware will need updating. So despite much consternation in this thread about a possible ATV5 soon, I actually support the idea - provided it fixes this issue.
There is a much older technology called HDMI-to-VGA converters which have to be independently powered. This actually works with the ATV4. You have to revert to this older technology to get it to work now. But they are much heavier and bulkier with many more wires attached and have therefore largely been superseded by more elegant portable ones (for ATV2 and ATV3). I replaced my powered one with a portable one which I used successfully with the ATV2 and ATV3 but was somewhat bemused when I discovered the HDMI power issue with the ATV4 forcing me back to the older technology of a powered converter.
Apple still sell a portable one which does not work with the ATV4. They don't sell powered ones. This is an embarrassment for apple.
Will a ATV5 solve this issue? I don't know if it will. But it definitely can. It's not like apple don't know about it. They know portable ones worked with the ATV2 and ATV3.
I wrote them a letter about it. Haven't heard back.
But the ATV4 has a much worse problem (for my purposes). The HDMI port does not provide enough power for portable HDMI-to-VGA adapters to work properly. I don't think this can be fixed with a software update. The hardware will need updating. So despite much consternation in this thread about a possible ATV5 soon, I actually support the idea - provided it fixes this issue.
There is a much older technology called HDMI-to-VGA converters which have to be independently powered. This actually works with the ATV4. You have to revert to this older technology to get it to work now. But they are much heavier and bulkier with many more wires attached and have therefore largely been superseded by more elegant portable ones (for ATV2 and ATV3). I replaced my powered one with a portable one which I used successfully with the ATV2 and ATV3 but was somewhat bemused when I discovered the HDMI power issue with the ATV4 forcing me back to the older technology of a powered converter.
Apple still sell a portable one which does not work with the ATV4. They don't sell powered ones. This is an embarrassment for apple.
Will a ATV5 solve this issue? I don't know if it will. But it definitely can. It's not like apple don't know about it. They know portable ones worked with the ATV2 and ATV3.
I wrote them a letter about it. Haven't heard back.
I just hope when the Apple TV 5 does come out it has 4K output so we don't have to go through all this ***** again 
Apple tv 4 was delayed and should have been released shortly after the iphone 6. With an a8 with 1gb. It got delayed because of software/tv os or apple trying to get content deals/ a la carte tv.
When they realized the networks didn' t allow content deals and negotiations went sour, they released it one your later with the a8 variant with 2gb in the ipad mini instead.
Apple tv 5 was already in development, and planned to be released in 2016.
That' s it. The tv5 is not early. The tv4 was late.
When they realized the networks didn' t allow content deals and negotiations went sour, they released it one your later with the a8 variant with 2gb in the ipad mini instead.
Apple tv 5 was already in development, and planned to be released in 2016.
That' s it. The tv5 is not early. The tv4 was late.
About 40 minutes including composure time and reading his own "wall of text". I just took a typing test the other day. My relaxed typing speed is about 70wpm. My fast typing speed is 90wpm (that's without any errors) and when I pushed it full out I hit 104wpm with 2 typos out 99 words typed in 2 minutes (5 letters each average). The latter told me I was faster than 99.2% of the people that ever took the online test and I only imagine most people taking it have at least had some touch typing lessons or they wouldn't likely be testing themselves.
I think the Logitech keyboard I'm using is a limitation, though (it's their K740 back-lit wired model for about $60 and got rave reviews. I have spring loaded IBM keyboards in my closet (they would need a serial port to USB adapter and don't have "Windows" or "Mac" type keys on them), but they are the absolute best in terms of tactile feedback for speed typing with low errors. Obviously, when I'm thinking about a response, I'm not typing at 104 wpm, but let's just say that compared to someone looking for keys to type, it's obviously not as much work as some are thinking. I can thank my 8th grade required typing class for my skills, really. I've improved since then, but it's where I learned to type (on Apple IIe computers no less clear back in 1988).
I seriously doubt I could type very fast on the new Apple keyboards. They don't even look typing friendly and have no numeric keypads for fast numeric data entry. No thanks. I'll keep this one at half the price that is also backlit (nice for spotting function keys, audio volume keys, etc. in a dark room without having to turn on the lights.) They had a wireless model as well, but I'm at a desk with two USB hubs nearby. WTF would I want to concern myself with batteries and/or charging when I can just leave it plugged in (something I don't get about the new iMac).
Zero need? Let's see, faster/better gaming that would compare closer to something like the PS4 or XBox One would be a good use for a faster model (something more akin to an NVidia Shield at least). And I dunno...maybe that 4K 60fps video support that so many are wishing it had?
Basically. And probably released to recoup some R&D costs for it. So a 5 not so much in the hole to work out of as I gather its shared R&D costs at some level.
Which could work. I bought the 4 and am very happy with it. So is my son, main user of it really. Not going into oh no, now I have another buy in 2016. Won't be one, 4 does me fine. Sure others like me who don't have to have THE latest and greatest all the time.
Those that do...that's their thing so all good end of day.
I'm of a different thought --- ATV5 will be what Apple intended ATV4. The increasing pressure of the streaming video box market coupled with the holiday season forced Apple's hand and it had to release something to at least maintain marketshare. So it took what new features did work and pushed out ATV4. It had nothing to do w/ having or not having a content deal as surely that service will be compatible with ATV2 and 3s too just as HBO Go and other new channels are. I equate it to iPad 3 to iPad 4; a speed bump but nothing major. It was the next gen (iPad Air) that was the game changer).
You're probably right. But I'm guessing that delay was in anticipation that some style of tv service would be available for it, and as the next product in the cycle approached, they pushed it out without the service ready just so they would have some more time in between.
Yes, your article is outdated even the ones I'm going to post are from August. I wasn't responding about the whole size and distance debate, I was responding to your rant on there being no standard on HDR. The CEA announced the industry definition for high dynamic range (HDR) compatible video displays in late August. Oh and since you brought Sony into it one of the links is from them.
https://blog.sony.com/press/cea-defines-hdr-compatible-displays/
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s...delines-for-high-dynamic-range-displays/25692
Edit
I see BuffaloTF already covered it.
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Amazon Fire seems to got it right for online gaming streaming:
Can Apple offer something similar? And not limited to iOS games only?
Gaming in 4K may be another use case that will help debunk the "lack of content' myth.
Can Apple offer something similar? And not limited to iOS games only?
Gaming in 4K may be another use case that will help debunk the "lack of content' myth.
I'm in no way arguing that people aren't dumb. But I am arguing that it's dumb to buy a TV that offers no perceived benefit, as proven by science, so that members on this forum will become educated on the matter. Learning is the only way people will grow into more responsible individuals who make smart choices with their money, strengthening our economy and leaving our children with less debt. Are you suggesting we just give in to the marketing machine? Buy as we're told to buy? You sound like you come from the television industry, lol. They're probably extremely scared that this information will go mainstream—and they're right to be a scared. We're at a point with TVs where it doesn't make much sense to buy a new one unless the one you have suddenly breaks. Exhibit one: the rise of the smart TV. Unable to make further advances in areas that matter, many companies are shoehorning crappy UIs onto their TVs that display ads while the user watches. How desperate is that?!? The main improvements I'm looking forward to involve contrast and color reproduction, but even those are getting pretty good. There just isn't much reason to upgrade these days, plain and simple. That's all I'm saying. I agree that people are dumb and will continue to upgrade for no perceived benefit, but hopefully at least some of them will learn. Educating people is never a bad idea. NEVER.
And has been proven repeatedly, there is no science behind the chart. It's someone's estimation by using manufacturers recommended viewing distance charts. Nothing more.
The chart even has an actual response at the bottom that has actual scientific citations and studies that completely contradict the chart.
http://www.homecinemaguru.com/can-we-see-4kuhd-on-a-normal-sized-screen-you-betcha/
Perhaps take your own advice, read that and accept the education people are offering you. Full benefits, again, does not mean only benefits.
And that's about the only thing I can think of too.
I've always wondered why they did that, other than to get people to adopt to Lightning before the holidays (but then they continued to sell iPad 3 [or was it 2?] for a while).
This is the Apple TV though, usually the slowest refresh in the bunch of... pretty much anything Apple...
I'd think they'd wait a tiny bit longer to see what the "needs" of the app store are first.
Unless they really want to get a 4k version out there...
Gary
You are talking like you have Apple business plan in front of you. Apple engineers don't even know all the facts about ATV4, let alone a guy on macRumors.
I'm in no way arguing that people are dumb. Totally not sure how you got that from my post. Also not sure how you got the idea I was advocating buy as we're told to buy. I gotta be honest with Duke, your post sounds a little tinfoil-ish. Strengthening our economy, children with less debt, and the TV industry scared info might get out... uhhh, maybe check to see if your carbon monoxide detector is working. Just kidding. You, me, and every member of this forum knows people don't buy based on charts like that one. It just doesn't happen. To argue differently is either intentional denial or selective reality. People aren't dumb. People buy what they like. It's simple. We do it with phones, cars, TV's, and pretty much anything else you can think of. Science typically doesn't come into play in any of those decisions. I can pretty much guarantee even if someone had that chart in hand, standing in Best Buy, they would get the TV they wanted regardless of size/distance info. Just so you know, that chart isn't educating anyone. Sorry, it just isn't. It's just semi-interesting esoteric info.
The funny thing is that people seems to forget that the Apple TV is not just for media consumption, driving the UI and all the apps and games and making it look good is plainly impossible right now with the A8 (and even the A9!).
Supporting 4K at the highest refresh rate also wasn't going to happen (not to mention many 4K TV's don't even support it) with this chip (or the A9).
Right now, going 4K would have been a kludge especially considering the dearth of bandwidth, 4K TVs and content for most of the buying public.
Best thing if you want 4K now is stream it to your computer screen where the resolution makes sense or direct to the TV (if it's bigger than 65 inch where it starts making sense))
The Apple TV is pretty inexpensive, so in a few years, when everything is settled. People will be able to buy a Apple TV that can drive the UI/games at 4K and of course the media. It will probably used the A10 or something similar.