Prohibitory sign on startup, boot discs not working

[Lud DiLettante]

Without any clue as to why, my G5 is left at the prohibitory sign after the Apple logo. I know it suggests a problem with the hard drive.
Tried disconnecting peripherals, resetting PRAM, booting in safe mode, with no progress. (When I first disconnected the peripherals I also did that with the keyboard - that one time I got the "black veil of death" at startup.)
Tried both Diskwarrior & Leopard install DVDs. With both, I get a few screeching noises, then either nothing, or they get ejected. The Leopard DVD did show at Startup Manager once, but still wouldn't boot.
The Apple Hardware Test CD does work, however, and revealed no problems.

Since I have no other bootable drives, I've figured out the following choices for repair:

-DLing the Diskwarrior 4.4 bootable dmg somehow on some other Mac & mounting the disc image on an USB stick. Does the 4.4 work on a USB?
-Doing the same with the Leopard installer DVD (to run Disk Utility)
-Getting somebody with a laptop Mac & using Target Disk Mode
-Any other suggestions?

I do have a Time Machine drive in the Mac. (Of course I'd have to get a bootable drive for it first)

 

[m1maverick]

Is this something that started out of the blue? Or did you make a change before it occurred? The first thing I would recommend is disconnecting the hard drive and then attempting to boot from optical media.

 

[Amethyst1]

You can also try booting in verbose mode by holding [Command]-[V] immediately after turning on the machine to see what's going on behind the scenes. What are the last few lines on the screen before it stops?

 

[Lud DiLettante]

Is this something that started out of the blue? Or did you make a change before it occurred? The first thing I would recommend is disconnecting the hard drive and then attempting to boot from optical media.

Well, as I said I'm without any clue so yes, out of the blue... Thanks for the tip, I think I'll try disconnecting the hard drive tomorrow, will report then.

 

[Lud DiLettante]

You can also try booting in verbose mode by holding [Command]-[V] immediately after turning on the machine to see what's going on behind the scenes. What are the last few lines on the screen before it stops?

Thanks. I tried that now. I don't know how many lines you need. The last two are
"2.5.4 Little Snitch: starting" and "Still waiting for root device".
Before those there's a lot of code.
Does this mean Little Snitch is to blame? Didn't know it starts that early... I don't even know if I need it.
I can post earlier lines if it helps.

 

[Amethyst1]

The last two are "2.5.4 Little Snitch: starting" and "Still waiting for root device".

Still waiting for root device is a pointer: it means Mac OS X can't access the partition/drive it's been told to boot from. Likely causes which come to mind are:

• A corrupted system partition: try running e.g. DiskWarrior or Disk Utility from an external FireWire/USB hard drive or another Mac via Target Disk Mode; as you say your DVD drive seems to have trouble reading discs.
• A faulty boot drive: does it make any strange (screeching or other) noises?
• A faulty SATA connection to the boot drive: try moving the boot drive to a different drive bay.

 

[MysticCow]

Unplug EVERYTHING first (keyboard, mouse, peripherals, etc) and see if you can get it to boot. Quite bluntly, it has to get to "factory condition" with graphic cards, RAM, etc.

If this doesn't work, try to boot into Open Firmware (Command-Option/Alt-O-F). You should get a prompt that looks like a terminal if it can boot there.

Next step is to remove the RAM one matched pair at a time to see if that gets it booting. OS X is weirdly picky when it comes to RAM.

If none of that works, then it's something a heck of a lot bigger.

 

[Lud DiLettante]

Wow, so many other options I didn't know. Thanks.
I've been busy elsewhere and didn't get far with the G5 today though.
But I started with the easy stuff.
Open Firmware just lead to the prohibitory sign again. (Took a while to find out that the "-" in "mac-boot" is actually at the "?" key...)
I thought the memory had been covered by the Apple Hardware Test. But I also had a Memtest CDR, so I tried that. To my surprise, it booted as "Ubuntu desktop"... I don't think I've even seen that before. There were a lot of icons etc, but nothing seemed to work. Even Disk Utility showed up, beguilingly enough, but clicking lead to blank... But, no Memtest in sight. I think I must've used the Memtest before though, but how..?
I have more time tomorrow & I'll try disconnecting the hard drive & so on.

 

[Lud DiLettante]

At this point, I gave Memtest another chance, but entering "memtest" wasn't accepted.
Later today, I'm intending to disconnect the hard drive etc.

 

[Lud DiLettante]

OK, I disconnected the hard drive. Started with Diskwarrior in the optical drive. Well, for the first time it did show up at Startup Manager... But, it wouldn't boot. I reconnected the drive, and sure enough, DW screeched and ejected again.
Next, I removed my backup drive and moved the boot drive to the B bay.
That made no difference, got prohibitory sign all the same.

So, should I go for the DW/DU on USB next..? Or still try Memtest or RAM sticks? AHT said memory was working, does that cover all memory..? (I still have an Apple Service Diagnostics disc, if that helps...)

 

[eyoungren]

OK, I disconnected the hard drive. Started with Diskwarrior in the optical drive. Well, for the first time it did show up at Startup Manager... But, it wouldn't boot. I reconnected the drive, and sure enough, DW screeched and ejected again.
Next, I removed my backup drive and moved the boot drive to the B bay.
That made no difference, got prohibitory sign all the same.

So, should I go for the DW/DU on USB next..? Or still try Memtest or RAM sticks? AHT said memory was working, does that cover all memory..? (I still have an Apple Service Diagnostics disc, if that helps...)

If I may, I would suggest finding a DW 4.3 or earlier CD/DVD. 4.4 and versions above are more Intel focused. Also, while it is possible to boot off USB with some PowerPC Mac models, with most it takes a combination of Open Firmware commands. I usually just stick to DW 4.3.

BTW, you don't want DW3 or below as those can't fix certain problems - like bad disk trees.

 

[Lud DiLettante]

If I may, I would suggest finding a DW 4.3 or earlier CD/DVD. 4.4 and versions above are more Intel focused. Also, while it is possible to boot off USB with some PowerPC Mac models, with most it takes a combination of Open Firmware commands. I usually just stick to DW 4.3.

BTW, you don't want DW3 or below as those can't fix certain problems - like bad disk trees.

Yes you may, E! Great to see you. Your considerable help years ago hasn't been forgotten. Those were the days. ;D

I just read that even Diskwarrior 5 is supposed to support PowerPCs. I didn't realize that before. DW 5 seems to be USB only so it would appear USB is supposed to work on PPC/10.5.8 according to Alsoft...
Still, if you recommend 4.3, I believe you.
Were some DW4's CDs? As a problem is my DVDs are not booting. CDs, like Hardware Test, work. I wonder if the problem is with the DVDs or something else. Could it be about the optical drive? I could buy a new one... But I just gave DW another chance, and it showed up at Startup Manager, with no screeches etc. Just didn't boot, ending up at the prohibitory sign.

 

[eyoungren]

Yes you may, E! Great to see you. Your considerable help years ago hasn't been forgotten. Those were the days. ;D

I just read that even Diskwarrior 5 is supposed to support PowerPCs. I didn't realize that before. DW 5 seems to be USB only so it would appear USB is supposed to work on PPC/10.5.8 according to Alsoft...
Still, if you recommend 4.3, I believe you.
Were some DW4's CDs? As a problem is my DVDs are not booting. CDs, like Hardware Test, work. I wonder if the problem is with the DVDs or something else. Could it be about the optical drive? I could buy a new one... But I just gave DW another chance, and it showed up at Startup Manager, with no screeches etc. Just didn't boot, ending up at the prohibitory sign.

Yes, sorry. DW5 is the one that is USB based. And yes, it does still support PowerPC. I'm just recommending 4.3 simply because 4.4 and above (which would be DW5) are harder to boot from (because USB). And they were DVDs, sorry about that. Not sure you can get DW5 on a DVD - it was sold on an Alsoft branded USB stick. 4.4 was sold on DVD, but I've had issues. 4.3 just seems to work.

Do you have access to a second Mac (even an Intel Mac). Here's what I'd try if you do. Copy the DW app over to the second Mac and then certify it by running it once.

Put your G5 in TDM (Target Disk Mode), hook up a FW cable to the G5 and then plug it in to the secondary Mac. Open DW on the secondary Mac and see what DW says.

Even if your secondary Mac is Intel, DW can still repair a PowerPC drive. It'll know what it needs to do.

Honestly though, I have to say that with DW not booting there may be more to this than just a bad HD. It suggests that there is some other hardware issue.

Just spinning off a thought, I am wondering what would happen if you had a compatible SATA card and dropped it in to the G5. Would it boot from that card? Just thinking out loud on that one. I read once where some user somewhere had to boot his G5 off a SATA card because the SATA controller on the LB was blown (or some such thing).

 

[Lud DiLettante]

Thanks E. I may use my cousin's laptop Mac. I hope my 4.4 DVD works on it.
As for the possible hardware issue, at least AHT hasn't revealed any, nor are there any red lights. By the way, I tried the ASD CD and it didn't boot, so at least one CD too that doesn't boot...

 

[eyoungren]

Thanks E. I may use my cousin's laptop Mac. I hope my 4.4 DVD works on it.
As for the possible hardware issue, at least AHT hasn't revealed any, nor are there any red lights. By the way, I tried the ASD CD and it didn't boot, so at least one CD too that doesn't boot...

Don't worry too much…at one point last year the USB ports on my MacPro suddenly stopped working. I was prepared to buy a new MP on eBay until I decided to see what Google might have to say about resetting MP USB ports.

After trying what I found I had the USB ports all working perfectly again. That would have been an expensive fix.

So, like I often say here, take what I saw with a grain of salt. A very large grain.

 

[Lud DiLettante]

There have been some surprise turns of events...
The plan of using my cousin's Mac for target disk mode was halted by her husband catching covid...
I got a bit more frustrated for all the time passing. My other Mac friends are abroad etc...
So I posted on Facebook about the situation, explaining target disk mode etc.
Surprisingly, out of all people my father's wife saw it, and later my father called me, promising me a new Mac for birthday!
I was somewhat flabbergasted, for many reasons, as you might imagine.
Updating anywhere from my G5 is a slightly scary thought... but, I guess that's a different story, with its own questions...

At this point I just want to get access to my files.
Now, actually I do have another semi-working Mac - an Ibook G4, which I haven't used for years, because it had issues. It used to have sudden blackouts, the battery was gone, and it had a CD stuck inside.
So it hadn' t really crossed my mind as a potential TDM tool. But I was frustrated... So I started it for the first time in years, first just to check if it'll work. So far it has worked fine... I don't know if it's stupid to try TDM on it. I figured both Macs have the last Leopard so in that sense it should be OK... The old blackout problems still made me wonder. Anyway, I couldn't resist.
Now the Disk Warrior DVD was out of question since there's the CD stuck inside. (How does one get it out? I remember I had to use pliers before, but now it stays too deep inside. I vaguely remember there might be some trick...)
So, there's still Disk Utility. I bought a Firewire and went on with it.
Well, DU found nothing wrong with the G5's hard drive...
So, does that mean anything?
What next?
Should I get the CD out of the Ibook and try Disk Warrior via target disk mode?
Or is there indeed some mysterious hardware problem on my G5 that Apple Hardware Test doesn't find?

Some guys nearby happen to be selling G5's...
One is an Imac though (&HD), but only 40€...
The other one is a set of G5 Quad with Cinema Display 23 & keyb/mouse (not sure about HD), at €140...

 

[Lud DiLettante]

OK. I googled it... Seems it's not worth the trouble trying to get the CD out of the Ibook.
So, I'll either have to wait for somebody whose Mac I can use, or grab one of the G5s on sale.
Unless I might try geting Diskwarrior on a new DVD, but I'm suspicious if any DVDs will work...
I'll probably try & suggest a lower price for the Quad G5 set, as it's been hanging there for some time.

 

[eyoungren]

OK. I googled it... Seems it's not worth the trouble trying to get the CD out of the Ibook.
So, I'll either have to wait for somebody whose Mac I can use, or grab one of the G5s on sale.
Unless I might try geting Diskwarrior on a new DVD, but I'm suspicious if any DVDs will work...
I'll probably try & suggest a lower price for the Quad G5 set, as it's been hanging there for some time.

It's either the drive or the SATA controller on the G5. I suspect the latter since DW says the drive is fine.

One way to test is this…SATA to USB.



Essentially, plug your drive into the adapter, plug USB into G5 and boot (hold down OPTN when starting the Mac and choose the USB drive). It should work on the G5, but probably not the iBook.

If the G5 boots from the drive via this then it has to be your SATA controller.

BTW, these are useful to keep. You can quickly access bare drives for formatting, quick transfer, etc - so it's a good investment anyway.

If your SATA controller is gone then you've got two options. New G5 (I'd go for that Quad you saw) or get a PCI-SATA card.

EDIT: An external SATA/FW case will also work, but those seem to be hard to find.

 

[Lud DiLettante]

>> I suspect the latter since DW says the drive is fine.>>

It was DU, not DW but maybe you meant DU.

OK, I know my brother has a SATA-USB adapter (he's not a Mac user tho), I might borrow or I'll just buy my own...

 

[Amethyst1]

[...] plug USB into G5 and boot (hold down OPTN when starting the Mac and choose the USB drive). [...]

Are G5s known to option-boot from USB drives though?

 

[eyoungren]

A
Are G5s known to option-boot from USB drives though?

Yeah, that's where I said 'should'. I think it's only mid to late G4s that you have to use OF with.

 

[eyoungren]

>> I suspect the latter since DW says the drive is fine.>>

It was DU, not DW but maybe you meant DU.

OK, I know my brother has a SATA-USB adapter (he's not a Mac user tho), I might borrow or I'll just buy my own...

Ah, ok then. Yeah, Disk Warrior is going to be more through than Disk Utility. Is there any way you can get Disk Warrior on to the iBook? Just for testing? All you need to do is get the app itself over. As long as DW is not running from a boot drive you can open it to scan other drives.

 

[Lud DiLettante]

Well, I bought the adapter already. Tried to boot with it, but the hard drive doesn't even show up at Startup Manager... It always shows up when connected to SATA, just doesn't boot.

There seems to be no way to get the CD out of the Ibook except something physical. At least dismantling seems to be an arduous process. And I wonder what might happen with the DW disc trying to get it in/out, etc...

I'm now getting ready to buy the G5 Quad set... It might be a good deal anyway. I've managed to haggle the price down to 80€ at the moment.

 

[Lud DiLettante]

Somebody offered more for the Quad it seems, as it was sold.... So, the IMac G5 is left, at €40. But it's a downgrade from my PowerMac. I don't even know if I could access my hard drive on it? No idea if my files surpass the capacity... You can see this is another new situation for me...

To recap:
My old PowerMac G5 doesn't boot from hard drive, nor DVDs (even when they show on Startup Manager).
The HD doesn't even show via a SATA/USB adapter.
The G5 does run Apple Hardware Test - which finds nothing wrong.
I haven't been able to run Diskwarrior in taget disk mode, since I can't get a CD out of my Ibook. (& I've no access to other Macs)
The Ibook's Disk Utility says the G5 HD is fine.

So, there's no common explanation for why neither HD nor DVDs boot?

 

[onre]

Thanks. I tried that now. I don't know how many lines you need. The last two are
"2.5.4 Little Snitch: starting" and "Still waiting for root device".
Before those there's a lot of code.
Does this mean Little Snitch is to blame? Didn't know it starts that early... I don't even know if I need it.
I can post earlier lines if it helps.

Everything. Take a picture of the screen as it shows and upload it somewhere?