Prosser: Fourth-Generation iPhone SE to Adopt Same Design As iPhone XR

[dysamoria]

Yet more elimination of Touch ID… 🫤

I ended up getting an SE 3 because my 6s was impossible to use and Apple recently stopped replacing batteries on that model.

I still don’t know if this is a temporary phone for me, or if it’s my phone for the next six years (or at least until they stop servicing its battery and web scripting is so bloated as to make the web intolerable again on this phone, like on my 6s).

 

[dysamoria]

PS: I didn’t buy it for the size, but do really like that I didn’t have to get used to an even larger phone without Touch ID or home button.

 

[ian87w]

Nobody buys the SE because it's small. People buy it because of the price. Apple knows this and they clearly advertise it this way to the world.

View attachment 2049011 View attachment 2049019


To build a low-cost device that sells well, there is no way Apple will betting on the mini. The XR and 11 were the best selling smartphones globally in 2019 and 2020, respectively. The mini was the worst selling iPhone in Apple's line up in a very long time.

Exactly. The point of the SE is cheap. If people wanted smaller phone, they would've bought the mini. The SE is still "big", the same size as the X/Xs/11 Pro.

 

[ian87w]

Tim has already said the SE if for the smaller and/or affordable market. Why would they make it bigger?

Tim Cook also said they had many Intel macs to be released in the pipeline during the Apple silicon transition keynote. Yet it's an obvious lie. Tim Cook during presentation is a salesman. Wake me up when you have a truly honest salesman.

 

[Applɘ Aꙅylum]

Not XR - it's 6.1" - too long for a SE. Regular iPhone and Pro are also both 6.1".

Just use the good old iPhone X or XS body - both are 5.8".

Very perfect and fitting for a 2023 iPhone SE 3rd.

Are you reading this, Tim?

 

[ian87w]

I find it more likely the next SE will either be based off the mini or the iPhone 11. Using the XR body doesnt make sense to me since they would have to reboot old manufacturing processes as the phone has been out of production for awhile. As the mini/11 are still in production, it would be easier and cheaper to convert those to the new SE. and if I recall correctly, the iPhone 8 was discontinued with the release of the 2nd gen SE, so it was a seamless transition.

Personally I'd like to believe it would be based off the mini as one of the main selling points of the SE line has always been that it's a compact option.

View attachment 2048998

If people loved smaller phone, they would've bought the mini. The SE is simply Apple keeping a low tier iPhone using the cheapest method, aka reusing old design. Apple wouldn't be bothered to spend money in redesigning and retooling the production machines just to make a cheap iPhone.

Why the mini won't be used? Current mini casing have dual camera and front screen is designed for OLED. Those things cost extra. The XR only have single camera and LCD, lower cost. Apple wouldn't be giving dual camera and OLED for the cheapest iPhone.

Also, the XR is not out of production as Apple is still selling iPhone XR in some markets. Apple would also still need parts for warranty and replacements. Heck, in my country, Apple still sells iPhone 7+ brand new in 2020, and it came with ios13 out of the box, meaning production wise, those older iphones are still being made even if they have been discontinued in the US market.

 

[ian87w]

Not XR - it's 6.1" - too long for a SE. Regular iPhone and Pro are also both 6.1".

Just use the good old iPhone X or XS body - both are 5.8".

Very perfect and fitting for a 2023 iPhone SE 3rd.

Are you reading this, Tim?

Iphone X/Xs frame design is the same as the 8 and the current SE (glass sandwich). But Apple wouldn't be willing to design a new smaller LCD screen with FaceID just for the SE. Much cheaper to just use the existing XR body and call it a day.

 

[Jordan Klein]

Look folks. If you're wishing for FaceID and such on the iPhone SE, then it wasn't made for you. You have 4 other models to choose from that have FaceID. I have 1 model to choose from that has TouchID.

So, leave it alone please!

 

[ian87w]

View attachment 2049109

Look folks. If you're wishing for FaceID and such on the iPhone SE, then it wasn't made for you. You have 4 other models to choose from that have FaceID. I have 1 model to choose from that has TouchID.

So, leave it alone please!

Considering Apple just refreshed the SE this year with the same old design, I actually think Apple will ride this dated design for years to come. There has to be a differentiation between the cheapest iPhone with the more expensive iPhone in terms of looks.

I'm guessing we will only see a new SE design when the rest of iphones have adopted the new pill shaped cutout. That could mean another 3 years or so.

 

[madebybela]

If people loved smaller phone, they would've bought the mini. The SE is simply Apple keeping a low tier iPhone using the cheapest method, aka reusing old design. Apple wouldn't be bothered to spend money in redesigning and retooling the production machines just to make a cheap iPhone.

Why the mini won't be used? Current mini casing have dual camera and front screen is designed for OLED. Those things cost extra. The XR only have single camera and LCD, lower cost. Apple wouldn't be giving dual camera and OLED for the cheapest iPhone.

if you can buy an iPhone 12 mini (dual camera and OLED) for >$599 now, I think you can expect those parts to be significantly cheaper by 2024.

and if the goal is truly to keep costs as cheap as possible, then why evolve the design at all? keeping the iPhone 8 design is also apparently a likely possibility.

 

[ian87w]

if you can buy an iPhone 12 mini (dual camera and OLED) for >$599 now, I think you can expect those parts to be significantly cheaper by 2024.

and if the goal is truly to keep costs as cheap as possible, then why evolve the design at all? keeping the iPhone 8 design is also apparently a likely possibility.

Actually imo that's what I think, that Apple will ride the iPhone 8 design for years to come. They just updated it this year with 5G. That's a sign they intend to keep the design for the long run.

 

[buckwheet]

Yikes. The XR was a boat anchor—I really kinda hated that phone...

 

[Leshita]

I might be in the minority but I hope they stick with the current home button design for one more generation. I love the home button and kind of regret getting just a 128GB for the SE3, was hoping to get an upgraded one with 256-512GB the next time around.

 

[_Spinn_]

Wow that guy fell off fast. Used to have a rumor a week

Yeah I totally forgot about this guy.

 

[PlasmStudios]

RIP, home button. RIP.

 

[HVDynamo]

They need to upgrade the display, the SE has a clearer display compared to the XR due to the higher dpi. If not, this would be a step backwards in this department alone.

Both have a dpi of 326ppi. They are literally the same density.

 

[svish]

Design might be the same but wonder what screen size it will be.

 

[mkoesel]

if you can buy an iPhone 12 mini (dual camera and OLED) for >$599 now, I think you can expect those parts to be significantly cheaper by 2024.

No doubt. We may get some confirmation of this in about a week when the 14s arrive and we learn which phone will occupy the $499 price point for the next 12 months. Some (I.e. not an exhaustive list) possibilities are:

1. The 11 gets a stay of execution and sticks around for another year instead of getting pushed out as would normally happen to the bottom rung legacy phone. Taking one for the team, the 12 Mini gets the axe instead.

2. The 12 Mini goes from $599 to $499 which would confirm your hypothesis while the 11 exits on schedule.

3. Both the 11 and 12 Mini go away, and there is no $499 iPhone for the next year. Instead, there is a bigger ($170) gap between the lowest priced legacy phone(s) and the SE.

and if the goal is truly to keep costs as cheap as possible, then why evolve the design at all? keeping the iPhone 8 design is also apparently a likely possibility.

There has been more than one report on SE 2022 sales being somewhat abysmal. This is likely at least in some part because of the legacy form factor being too long in the tooth now. At some point you need to move to a more modern design, or you just won’t find enough people wiling to pony up, even at a ~$400 price.

 

[bluecoast]

They will have to tweak the case regardless to put a USB-C socket on it. Once retoolled the chassis part for that it is a change. The XR is thicker so have smore slop if that gets 'messy' being a thicker connector.

The XR allows the them to both trim off OLED screen and a camera (wide) . ( and possibly keep an even older front camera ). They could remove the Wide camera from the 11/mini but bound to get review tech press grumbling loudly about that.

If Apple is chopping off camera parts to hit the lower price point ... going to be interesting longer term as they'll have no "one camera" models left to recycle without a change.

Really good points.

You’d have to think that the relatively thick iPhone XR would be a good candidate to add usb-c to & that they’d only want to do this once.

If so, it’s hard to imagine it launching in spring 2023 as all of the other fall 2022 iPhones will be lightening (so it seems).

But… they could do this to send the message to third party accessory manufacturers that the fall 2023 iPhones will be usb-c (and as a ‘test run’ for Apple themselves). After all, the basic iPad is usb-c.

As for removing the ultra wide camera - you’d have to wonder how many people who Apple are aiming such a phone at would use the ultra wide camera.

I’m going to guess that these people are mostly those who just want a modern - 5g - cheap iPhone with a nice enough screen and my guess is that they wouldn’t miss the ultra wide.

A risky move though, as even low end $400 android phones have 2 cameras (and oled screens).

 

[bluecoast]

Yikes. The XR was a boat anchor—I really kinda hated that phone...

I’m writing on one and with a case, they are ridiculously big and and heavy (though quite good without a case - if you can get a grip on it, as this thing is like a heavy bar of soap).

So I hear you…

But let’s say you want to spend $400 and you look at android phones around this price point too. Those phones are big & heavy.

So I think it’s important to put the ‘XR SE’ in context.

 

[ylihao]

They need to upgrade the display, the SE has a clearer display compared to the XR due to the higher dpi. If not, this would be a step backwards in this department alone.

The SE’s display is 1334x750 @ 326ppi, the XR’s display is 1792x828 @ 326ppi, they share the exact same pixel density and the XR even has more pixels than the SE. How the heck can the SE have a clearer display than the XR? (Also pixel density on smartphone displays is measured in ppi not dpi.)

 

[Kierkegaarden]

I thought the FaceID system was expensive, so assumed they would go with a TouchID power button for the SE at some point — but this makes more sense from the standpoint of not having to re-engineer a single device.

 

[ApplesAreSweet&Sour]

Tim has already said the SE if for the smaller and/or affordable market. Why would they make it bigger?

Can we please, please, PLEASE stop this delusion of Apple launching any of the SEs, previous or current, to offer a unique option for those that like smaller iPhones?

Apple didn't keep the 5S design for SE 1, and iPhone 8 design for SE 2 and 3 because it was considering smaller hands/pockets or if newer iPhones are too heavy.

Apple does the old models for SE because the components are dated and incredibly inexpensive leading to massive profit margins despite selling it for just $399($429) and putting the latest SoC and spec bumping some other internals.

The tiny batteries, displays, cameras, speakers, aluminium chassis on iPhones 8/SE are worth next to nothing outside the context of iPhones.

And the old designs are also recycled because they are not a threat to sales of the current or last year's mid-tier.

iPhone SE never was and never will be anything more than that.

 

[ApplesAreSweet&Sour]

I thought the FaceID system was expensive, so assumed they would go with a TouchID power button for the SE at some point — but this makes more sense from the standpoint of not having to re-engineer a single device.

You are correct on the last part:

Profit margins from doing the typical iPhone SE style spec bump on the old XR design and barely changing anything else will get Apple far higher profit margins that putting millions into r&d to do some sort of semi-new design with a Face ID-less notch in combination with an iPad Air style Touch ID power button.

Apple won't put that kind of extensive r&d into an iPhone that starts at $429 when just spec bumping the old XR to make the internals slightly more contemporary will lead to similar sales.

 

[SoldOnApple]

It's kind of crazy that Apple is right now making and packaging millions of these things, and we still aren't certain what they are going to be. Maybe we know it'll have the X design, but we don't know the screen size, we certainly don't know what chip is in it, and can only guess what cameras it'll have.