Protest against bousozoku's closing of iBook thread.

Status
Not open for further replies.

SpaceMagic

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Oct 26, 2003
1,740
0
Cardiff, Wales
bousozoku said:
Since this thread seems to be more of a spam hole than a useful thread, it is now closed.

By the way, the forums are not meant for conversations. If you wish to chat, you should do it over IRC or one of the Instant messengers. Thanks!
Just because you are a moderator, doesn't mean I can't disagree with you... so here goes:

Definition of a forum: A place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.

On the contrary, sir, without "conversations" then how can one "discuss" ideas and views on a particular issue. Now, the iBook next tuesday thread was hardly what I call spam. Even directly before you closed the thread there was legitimate debate over what specs the iBooks could be, what options people thought Apple would take and other relevant material. The way I saw it, that thread was pretty complete and had a lot of people talking about the next iBook revision.

However, as that most useful thread has now been closed, the MacRumors forums will be inundated with relative newbies asking the same questions which have disappeared along with the iBooks next tuesday thread. Not only this, but the thread holds value for the members who posted on it, as it has been active for more than 2 months, which to me means pretty healthy discussion.

So bousozoku, if you wish to keep the thread closed then it is up to you. But the powers which be above you, namely Arn, be warned... with such control and censorship, which *some* of the moderators exercise, one can only expect users to turn away from MR and its community.
 

SpaceMagic

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Oct 26, 2003
1,740
0
Cardiff, Wales
Savage Henry said:
Newbies can use the Search facility provided by the forum in the top bar.
And how many regulars do you know who do this enough... let alone newbies?

Plus that's not the point, the point being made is that moderators can relatively easily shut down threads. They're just ordinary people like you and me and ok, yes, they've been entrusted with mod powers so they're relatively safe, but still not infallible.
 

Josh

macrumors 68000
Mar 4, 2004
1,640
1
State College, PA
Forums aren't places for conversation?

By what other name would you prefer to call an exchange of words?

Aside from that, if the forums are to be seen as ultra-informative, non-conversational exchanges of useful Mac-related info, where do things like this come in to play: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=1575784#post1575784 ?

Seems like "conversation" to me. Not trying to be picky..but seems a bit odd for one to close a thread deemed as "conversation" while openly taking part in an even more conversational one.

$0.02
 

SpaceMagic

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Oct 26, 2003
1,740
0
Cardiff, Wales
grapes911 said:
I know some people with over 500 posts who don't search. :rolleyes:

It didn't work in this thread, what makes you think will work here?

Personally, I agree with the mods.
I searched. Just look where the post is... this is exactly what i'm talking about. Thanks for just illustrating the power of the mods. Speak up against and then thats it... waste land.

Josh said:
Forums aren't places for conversation?

By what other name would you prefer to call an exchange of words?

Aside from that, if the forums are to be seen as ultra-informative, non-conversational exchanges of useful Mac-related info, where do things like this come in to play: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthr...784#post1575784 ?

Seems like "conversation" to me. Not trying to be picky..but seems a bit odd for one to close a thread deemed as "conversation" while openly taking part in an even more conversational one.

$0.02
Another illustration of my point. People can talk about hot dogs, but not about ibooks.
 

timmyb

macrumors 6502
Feb 2, 2005
374
0
United Kingdom
Couldn't agree more with you SpaceMagic, I was gutted when I saw it had been locked. The fact that it got to 1100+ posts show how useful people found it. If you didn't like it, you didn't have to post on it.
 

ham_man

macrumors 68020
Jan 21, 2005
2,265
0
There is a diference between a conversation and a discussion. bousozoku was right to close the thread...
 

applerocks

macrumors regular
Jun 7, 2005
158
68
timmyb said:
Couldn't agree more with you SpaceMagic, I was gutted when I saw it had been locked. The fact that it got to 1100+ posts show how useful people found it.
I am just a newbie and I would go to that thread a lot and look for information. There were posts speculating on when they would come out, possible options they'd have, etc. Even the second to last post notes how the last time there was a wait this long, a major design revision happened. That thread stopped me from creating new threads, partly because it was usually near the top. Many members joined just to post there. A lot of newbies.

Although at times there were pointless posts, a lot of info is in there. I do think that it should be open, but that is what the Mod decided I guess.

applerocks
 

grapes911

Moderator emeritus
Jul 28, 2003
6,943
3
Citizens Bank Park
applerocks said:
There were posts speculating on when they would come out, possible options they'd have, etc. Even the second to last post notes how the last time there was a wait this long, a major design revision happened.
People have been speculating for a long time. Almost none of that info has been reliable. Use the Buyer's Guide to find out about rumors and updates concerning the iBook.
 

SpaceMagic

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Oct 26, 2003
1,740
0
Cardiff, Wales
ham_man said:
There is a diference between a conversation and a discussion. bousozoku was right to close the thread...
I'd like to see the day when a discussion doesn't involve conversation.

And, even if you are insinuating that conversation is worthless banter, then read the iBooks next tuesday thread and see that, as Applerocks says, there is useful information right up until the end.
 

WinterMute

Moderator emeritus
Jan 19, 2003
4,715
4
London, England
If you disagree with a Mods decision, PM the Mod and ask the question, if you don't like the reply, PM Arn, who owns the site.

If Arn agrees with you he can instruct the Mods as to what course of action to take, if he agrees with the Mods, then the decision stands.

It's been my experience as a member that Arn supports his Mods and the Mods do a fine job, (speaking as a member, not a Mod). As a Mod it's sometimes difficult to manage the large number of diverse threads that appear on these boards, and our decisions are not always popular ones.

That said, I'd have closed the thread out at much the same point bousozoku did, had I seen where it was headed, it was starting to take a lot of time to moderate.
 

MacNut

macrumors Core
Jan 4, 2002
21,544
7,802
CT
If your this upset over the thread being closed why not just open a new thread. :rolleyes: Don't cry over spilled milk just pour another glass. :cool:
 

CanadaRAM

macrumors G5
Josh said:
Forums aren't places for conversation?
By what other name would you prefer to call an exchange of words?

Aside from that, if the forums are to be seen as ultra-informative, non-conversational exchanges of useful Mac-related info, where do things like this come in to play: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=1575784#post1575784 ?

Seems like "conversation" to me. Not trying to be picky..but seems a bit odd for one to close a thread deemed as "conversation" while openly taking part in an even more conversational one.
The post you reference is in Community Discussion, which is (surprise) the correct forum for non-Mac-related conversation.
The rules are different in Community,
 

applerocks

macrumors regular
Jun 7, 2005
158
68
grapes911 said:
People have been speculating for a long time. Almost none of that info has been reliable. Use the Buyer's Guide to find out about rumors and updates concerning the iBook.
But the Buyer's Guide has said to wait for a very long time. All I was saying was we were finding out about potential events for where they may be announced, no matter how unreliable. Most people who posted there were curious since there are no rumors concerning iBooks. The last one was on 6/20 and that was a Page 2 rumor. Before that, the only main post with anything to do with iBooks in the title was the battery recall a month before. Not trying to start anything, but I do think the thread was useful for a handful (if not more) people.
 

MacNut

macrumors Core
Jan 4, 2002
21,544
7,802
CT
Usually when a thread gets over 1000 posts the conversation gets out of hand, how many comments can one make about an iBook that have probably already been said.
 

mac 2005

macrumors 6502a
Apr 1, 2005
761
24
Chicago
Somewhat off-topic but related....

With respect to contacting mods via PM, what is the best way to do so? Can you just select one at random or are mods assigned certain areas that are listed somewhere?
 

MacNut

macrumors Core
Jan 4, 2002
21,544
7,802
CT
mac_2005 said:
With respect to contacting mods via PM, what is the best way to do so? Can you just select one at random or are mods assigned certain areas that are listed somewhere?
Find whatever one you see online and PM them, its that simple. :)
 

Josh

macrumors 68000
Mar 4, 2004
1,640
1
State College, PA
CanadaRAM said:
The post you reference is in Community Discussion, which is (surprise) the correct forum for non-Mac-related conversation.
The rules are different in Community,
Conversation about iBooks, regardless of context of the conversation, is still about iBooks.

And since iBooks = Macs, and discussion about iBooks therefore = discussion about Macs, the thread, regardless of how "conversationa," was still on topic and therefore within the rules).

One person didn't see the use of a thread and closed it for their own judgement, which seemingly is not congruent with the thoughts of others.

I run a forum myself, and understand sometimes threads need to be closed. But I would never close one just because I personally thought it was useless.

Personally, I didn't care about that thread so I'm not worried about being closed. I just think the notion that "forums are not a place for conversation" is ridiculous. That's really the only point I'm debating.

Conversation can be off-topic, or on-topic, but an expressive exchange of thoughts is conversation nonetheless.
 

Applespider

macrumors G4
SpaceMagic said:
I'd like to see the day when a discussion doesn't involve conversation.
I don't have the time to read through the iBook thread and judge on the discussion/conversation issue but there is a difference between them.

A discussion involves several people all commenting on a topic. Some threads which start with conversations can degenerate into conversations where the majority of posts are between 2 individuals arguing over a single point which aren't particularly relevant to anyone else. These points should be taken to a private message/email arena since they're not contributing anything to the thread.

There have been a few of these lately even on the Community where threads have become chatty comments between just 2 people.
 

MacNut

macrumors Core
Jan 4, 2002
21,544
7,802
CT
Applespider said:
There have been a few of these lately even on the Community where threads have become chatty comments between just 2 people.
If the conversation is on topic tho I don't see a problem with it. When threads are taken way off topic then it becomes an issue.
 

mac 2005

macrumors 6502a
Apr 1, 2005
761
24
Chicago
Applespider said:
A discussion involves several people all commenting on a topic. Some threads which start with conversations can degenerate into conversations where the majority of posts are between 2 individuals arguing over a single point which aren't particularly relevant to anyone else. These points should be taken to a private message/email arena since they're not contributing anything to the thread.
Strikes me as a valid point. I'm not usually one for "splitting hairs," but I think that you've articulated a reasonable distinction.

I do wonder, though: If a forum is "closed" and you revive the topic with another thread, is that OK under MR rules? Obviously, iBooks are going to be a topic of conversation/discussion as long as they're in the lineup -- so it seems reasonable that members might have comments, concerns, requests for help, etc.

The fact that this particular post was past the 1,000 mark strikes me as -- Whoa! How much fortitude do you need as a reader -- let alone a mod who has other duties -- to plow through it for the nugget of information you want?
 

Don't panic

macrumors 603
Jan 30, 2004
5,551
695
having a drink at Milliways
i quickly browsed through that ibook thread and though not particularly exciting to me, it didn't seem any worse than the majority of others thread, and more on topic then most, especially those of a certain lenght.
maybe there was a particular stretch of posts that irked the mod, but I didn't see them.
 

Status
Not open for further replies.