Proton Sheets Launches as Encrypted Alternative to Google Sheets

[bluecoast]

Great. They are slowly replacing every default app on a phone. How long before Proton releases their own fork of Android?

Interesting take!

I suspect that they are more focussed on being a leading company in the Eurostack initiative.

They seem to more have ms office 365 online and GWS in their sights than at the OS level.

They haven’t released a web browser either - I reckon that what Firefox is doing suits them just fine.

But I wouldn’t be surprised if they start to partner with b2b companies who are releasing their own Google free android devices for European businesses, non profits and governments.

 

[Ctrlos]

Or just load up Numbers with your WIfI off.

 

[DB2k]

an alternative for google sheets is like suggesting alternative products Aldi/Lidl sell..

 

[chmania]

You know why Google is free right?

I know why Google is free, and I don't mind. I've had my Google account since July 2007, and I've used Google Maps since it became available. I tried using Apple Maps, but ended up dropping it. I had to buy a MacBook, so while Numbers is free, the MacBook was not. Google Services are accessible on any device, even those with Huawei Kirin chips. That's the difference. If you want to pay, you're more than welcome to use Proton.

Any spreadsheet sent by email can be opened in Google Sheets with just one click. Simple! And free!

 

[Bkxmnr]

Is this for crime organisation tax returns?

Do criminal organizations pay taxes?

 

[anakin44011]

Citation needed.

Somewhere there's a joke about an electron...but it is too early for my brain to construct it.

...and then someone is going to point out that Electron is yet another software platform trying to solve problems that 99% of users don't know exist.


That said...I'm sure there are many use cases for Proton's SW just as there's a business case for Proton to exist/finance/hire/train/deploy. However, for $155/user/year...there must more differentiation that I'm just not seeing.

 

[cjsuk]

Are you talking about emails of spreadsheets? Because this thread and article is about spreadsheets

The point is they are overstating their security guarantees. And their software is not open for inspection. So you shouldn’t trust the marketing claims.

 

[UliBaer]

(...) And their software is not open for inspection. So you shouldn’t trust the marketing claims.

🤔

An open source privacy company | Proton

All our apps (Proton Mail, Proton Drive, etc) are open source and independently audited. Anyone can inspect our software and confirm our encryption works.

proton.me

 

[cjsuk]

🤔

An open source privacy company | Proton

All our apps (Proton Mail, Proton Drive, etc) are open source and independently audited. Anyone can inspect our software and confirm our encryption works.

proton.me

Including their infrastructure provisioning, key management, access control systems and office software?

Nope.

And that's irrelevant as well because the entire idea is fundamentally flawed as explained earlier.

----

Edit: Also can you really verify what they have in their repositories is what ships to you and is what you are using?

Unless all these absolutes are true, and there are a lot of them in this model, then the system is critically flawed. A flawed system has no security guarantees. It's arguably worse than having no security guarantees as you are under the impression that you have security guarantees in place.

 

[jkratz.36]

Including their infrastructure provisioning, key management, access control systems and office software?

Nope.

And that's irrelevant as well because the entire idea is fundamentally flawed as explained earlier.

----

Edit: Also can you really verify what they have in their repositories is what ships to you and is what you are using?

Unless all these absolutes are true, and there are a lot of them in this model, then the system is critically flawed. A flawed system has no security guarantees. It's arguably worse than having no security guarantees as you are under the impression that you have security guarantees in place.

Thank you for the rational thought here. It's amazing to me the number of people that point to "it's open source!" like it's the Holy Grail and solves all problems. Open source is great but how do we know what they're running on their infrastructure? At the end of the day it's still about a level of trust and always has to be.

That said I don't think they're making things up and yes they get audited. It would be terribly bad for business for them to be lying. But to think that their encryption solves much is funny.

 

[TwoBytes]

Do criminal organizations pay taxes?

Very good point.
Maybe then money laundering Walter white style?

 

[turbineseaplane]

Things are nice and safe with my spreadsheets here on my local SSD and backed up to my TimeMachine and NAS.

 

[beltzak]

Care to elaborate on that? 🤔
Proton is a well accepted, trustworthy, open source driven company. If you have anything to inspect, you can do it.

[edit] Try that at Apple... 🤣

¿Open source?

Why is then that I cannot self host any of their software. They haven’t Open Sourced any server service they have created.

That is not Open Source. That’s Closed Source … as far as I know.

 

[beltzak]

Are you talking about emails of spreadsheets? Because this thread and article is about spreadsheets

He literally said: “Never trust Proton”

Someone else asked him “citation” so what are you talking about? Are you talking about spreadsheets only or are we allowed to talk about Proton? Because if we aren’t allowed to talk about Proton then you shouldn’t be able to ask what we are talking about because that’s out of the scope of the article, right?

 

[beltzak]

🤔

An open source privacy company | Proton

All our apps (Proton Mail, Proton Drive, etc) are open source and independently audited. Anyone can inspect our software and confirm our encryption works.

proton.me

Are you serious? Where is the server/backend code?

 

[zenmacx]

If it's free, you're the product.

Free AND users are giving away their privacy. But they’re unaware because they fail to read the terms and conditions.

Some justify their complacency saying “I have nothing to hide”. This statement alone reveals volumes about said users.

Google grows larger while laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[beltzak]

Thank you for the rational thought here. It's amazing to me the number of people that point to "it's open source!" like it's the Holy Grail and solves all problems. Open source is great but how do we know what they're running on their infrastructure? At the end of the day it's still about a level of trust and always has to be.

That said I don't think they're making things up and yes they get audited. It would be terribly bad for business for them to be lying. But to think that their encryption solves much is funny.

There was a time where I trusted Proton but since last year and some information about the involvement of Tesonet in the development of ProtonVPN, then the development of a Password manager, calendar, data drive, now spreadsheet I am starting to think this is very dangerous and they may be lying.

From a security standpoint I think it’s not secure to give all your trust in so many services to the same company.

What if the Swiss law claim them your data? Then they have all your data, from where you did connect, what time, what day, what emails you have sent, to whom and a lot more data. And that’s only assuming that their “server/backend” software works as they claim if not all the data you gave them is completely exposed.

 

[Ursadorable]

Big fan of Proton, because it's not Google, and not Microsoft, neither of which I would ever trust with my data.

Glad to see they've added a spreadsheet app to their arsenal.

 

[beltzak]

Big fan of Proton, because it's not Google, and not Microsoft, neither of which I would ever trust with my data.

Glad to see they've added a spreadsheet app to their arsenal.

You shouldn’t trust Proton either.

Proton Mail: Is it really foss?

isitreallyfoss.com

 

[Ursadorable]

You shouldn’t trust Proton either.

Proton Mail: Is it really foss?

isitreallyfoss.com

Being open source or not is irrelevant to me. Google and Microsoft are not open source either.

 

[beltzak]

Being open source or not is irrelevant to me. Google and Microsoft are not open source either.

I said “either”. I think that means you shouldn't trust Google nor Microsoft neither Proton. At least that was my intention.

Obviously from Proton we don’t have confirmation that they’re evil but something tells me that we’ll soon know enough.

What should be relevant is that they’re open washing.

Open Washing
Gaining the marketing benefits without providing the freedoms

 

[UliBaer]

¿Open source?

Why is then that I cannot self host any of their software. They haven’t Open Sourced any server service they have created.

That is not Open Source. That’s Closed Source … as far as I know.

Well, the client source is enough to understand the underlying data encryption and safeness.
How would you start a business (Proton is not a non profit!) for earning money by giving away all your source code for free? 🤦‍♂️

What should be relevant is that they’re open washing.

Open Washing
Gaining the marketing benefits without providing the freedoms

You obviously mixed up FOSS with open source. Proton is open source, but it is definitely not free!

 

[Banan911]

The point is they are overstating their security guarantees. And their software is not open for inspection. So you shouldn’t trust the marketing claims.

You forgot to reply on what you were talking about and just rambled on about something else

 

[beltzak]

Well, the client source is enough to understand the underlying data encryption and safeness.
How would you start a business (Proton is not a non profit!) for earning money by giving away all your source code for free? 🤦‍♂️

You obviously mixed up FOSS with open source. Proton is open source, but it is definitely not free!

Well seems that you have never heard of "free as in freedom, not free as in beer”.

Free and open-source software (FOSS) is softwareavailable under a license that gives users the right to use, share, modify, and distribute the software – modified or not – to everyone and provides the means to exercise those rights using the software's source code.

Free and open-source software - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Open source is source codethat is made freely available for possible modification and redistribution. Products include permission to use and view the source code,[1] design documents,[2] or content of the product. The open source model is a decentralized software development model that encourages open collaboration.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source

Sorry but seems that you are misinformed severely.

Proton is not open source. Only their client side is open source which in the end means nothing because the server side is closed source. It’s your choice to trust your data whoever you want to but at least do not Open Wash them as they clearly do. That is their biggest lie and should concern you why they are so OPEN to lie about it.

 

[Banan911]

What if the Swiss law claim them your data?

I’m more worried these days about all the data that US tech companies harvest and stores about every single one us. Its scary as f**k especially the current administration taken into consideration. Personally my trust in anything US based is lower that the trust I have in tech based in nearly any other country I can think of (almost)

And I’m not alone. There’s a massive shift away from US based tech all around the world.