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Proton Sues Apple Over 'Artificial and Arbitrary' App Store Fees

breenmask said:
you're pointing out that having all of your apps purchased from one place to redownload from is amazing instead of manually remembering and navigating to different individual websites that you side loaded from so thanks...??
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And I‘m also pointing out that it‘s a single point of failure.
And it prevents both consumers and developers from benefitting from more efficient distribution and economies of scale.
@Brett said:
Serious question. Why does there need to be a competitive marketplace on Apple devices? They create the device and the hardware. They created the store. And all the developers were happy to jump on and make apps for the ecosystem. Personally I like the to can buy apps and subscribe and unsubscribe easily through iOS
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It should not be the only way. Because unregulated monopolies do not benefit consumers in the long run.
breenmask said:
That's like saying Amazon has a monopoly of the Amazon market. Should Walmart be able to list their products on Amazon and send users away from Amazon and onto Walmart's site? Nope.

Or AMC has a monopoly of the AMC movie theater market. Should Cinemark be able to list their movie offerings inside AMC's website and then drive AMC users towards Cinemark theaters? Nope.
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If cinema operators or department stores have even nearly the market concentration and barriers to consumers switching, government should regulate them.

Why? Consumers and developers benefit from choice and competition.
 
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if anyone thinks Apple is charging too much for their products or services, here is Apple's profit margin compared to other tech companies.

Apple (AAPL): 24.3%
Alphabet/Google (GOOGL): 30.86%
Meta Platforms (META): 39.11%
Microsoft (MSFT): 35.79%
 
I'm always amazed to people who are against alternative app store.

Maybe the word "alternative" is not clear enough. It means it's not going to replace the app store, just allow people who want it, to get their apps from somewhere else.
 
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m4mario said:
here is Apple's profit margin compared to other tech companies.
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...all of which (of the ones you mentioned) are dominant companies with monopoly power in their respective sectors.

The difference of course is that Apple - in sharp contrast to the others - makes most of their money from hardware sales, where actual physical materials go into the product (bogging down margins).

Advanced Micro Devices (AMD): 8%
Intel (INTC): -36%
Cisco (CSC): 18%
Intuit: (INTU): 19% (arguably a company with dominant market position as well)
ARM Holdings (ARM): 20%
 
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John Bachini said:
HouseOwner: Hi, ive just bought a new house here and I need a few things for it.

ShopOwner: Sure what do you need ?

HO: I need some lamps, a fridge/freezer, sofa, beds, oven, table & chairs, and a TV, carpets, bedding sheets, plates, cups basically everything for a new house. I did find it strange that I wasn't allowed to bring any of my existing items with me.

SO: Great, they will be in your house when you get home. And it's refreshing to hear that you read our Policies.

.........

HO: Hi, I was just in here earlier and bought a few things for my new house, but I've gone to sort out my electricity supplier and they say I have to buy it from you ?

SO: Yes, thats correct.

HO: So you will be my supplier ?

SO: mmm not really, they supply to you, you just pay us for it and then we give them 70% of that money.

HO: Soooo why cant I just get it from them then ?

SO: Policies Sir !, of which you had full access to, prior to buying your house.

HO: ok and if I need gas for my car ?

SO: Yes, you need to buy that from us too.

HO: Food for my fridge ?

SO: Yep.

HO: Water ?

SO: Of Course Sir. And if you want to buy TV packages to watch, thats through us as well. Basically anything you need for your new house you have to buy from us.

HO: I cant buy 'anything' direct from the companies ?

SO: No Sir, again I refer you to our 'Policies' that you were well aware of before you bought your house.

HO: That doesnt seem very fair.. or indeed legal.

SO: Sir ! Again I refer you to said policies and may I point out that nowhere does it say it's fair or legal.

HO: So it's Illegal then ?

SO: Sir, whether its Illegal or Legal is irrelevant, you were aware of the policies.

HO: Well that doesn't seem right to me, I think I'll sell up and move elsewhere. I suppose your going to tell me I have to pay for the removal company via yourselves as well ?

SO: Oh no sir, you're not allowed to take any of the items you purchased with you. Policies !

HO: Nothing ?

SO: Correct.

HO: Nothing at all ?

SO: Nothing, Zilch, diddly-squat, zero, Sweet FA.

HO: So, Basically I can only keep my stuff If I continue to live here ?

SO: Welcome to Apple, Home of the Walled Garden.
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Excellently put and absolutely accurate.
 
John Bachini said:
HouseOwner: Hi, ive just bought a new house here and I need a few things for it.

ShopOwner: Sure what do you need ?

HO: I need some lamps, a fridge/freezer, sofa, beds, oven, table & chairs, and a TV, carpets, bedding sheets, plates, cups basically everything for a new house. I did find it strange that I wasn't allowed to bring any of my existing items with me.

SO: Great, they will be in your house when you get home. And it's refreshing to hear that you read our Policies.

.........

HO: Hi, I was just in here earlier and bought a few things for my new house, but I've gone to sort out my electricity supplier and they say I have to buy it from you ?

SO: Yes, thats correct.

HO: So you will be my supplier ?

SO: mmm not really, they supply to you, you just pay us for it and then we give them 70% of that money.

HO: Soooo why cant I just get it from them then ?

SO: Policies Sir !, of which you had full access to, prior to buying your house.

HO: ok and if I need gas for my car ?

SO: Yes, you need to buy that from us too.

HO: Food for my fridge ?

SO: Yep.

HO: Water ?

SO: Of Course Sir. And if you want to buy TV packages to watch, thats through us as well. Basically anything you need for your new house you have to buy from us.

HO: I cant buy 'anything' direct from the companies ?

SO: No Sir, again I refer you to our 'Policies' that you were well aware of before you bought your house.

HO: That doesnt seem very fair.. or indeed legal.

SO: Sir ! Again I refer you to said policies and may I point out that nowhere does it say it's fair or legal.

HO: So it's Illegal then ?

SO: Sir, whether its Illegal or Legal is irrelevant, you were aware of the policies.

HO: Well that doesn't seem right to me, I think I'll sell up and move elsewhere. I suppose your going to tell me I have to pay for the removal company via yourselves as well ?

SO: Oh no sir, you're not allowed to take any of the items you purchased with you. Policies !

HO: Nothing ?

SO: Correct.

HO: Nothing at all ?

SO: Nothing, Zilch, diddly-squat, zero, Sweet FA.

HO: So, Basically I can only keep my stuff If I continue to live here ?

SO: Welcome to Apple, Home of the Walled Garden.
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Historically did electric power distribution ever work that way? 30% though have been applied for decades on software purchases.
 
I7guy said:
30% though have been applied for decades on software purchases
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Quite a lot of the reasons why this model and this percentage exists is due to Apple, so I hardly think it’s feasible to state that it’s existed for decades as if it’s a standard that Apple just did becuase everyone else did.
 
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cupcakes2000 said:
Imagine buying a fridge and only being able to stock it from the shop you got it from.
Imagine if there were only two fridge manufacturers.
Imagine if one allowed you to put what you what want in your fridge, but monitored your fridge and slapped adverts across the door trying to sell you stuff, and made money of letting other people advertise to you by selling them their knowledge of what’s in your fridge.
The other, controls what you can put in there, and if they or your government or anyone else decides that you shouldn’t have something, they can stop you having that product.

Neither of those are great options. And that’s the problem with mobile OS’. That ridiculous control, or that ridiculous invasiveness are the two options.

It’s simply not a case of switching to ‘the other side’. The ridiculous situation on both sides needs absolutely addressing.

For Apple that means releasing some of the abusive control they hold over their ecosystem.
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Or you could start a new fridge manufacturing company
 
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cupcakes2000 said:
Quite a lot of the reasons why this model and this percentage exists is due to Apple, so I hardly think it’s feasible to state that it’s existed for decades as if it’s a standard that Apple just did becuase everyone else did.
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Apple didn’t start the model back in the 19&0s. They continued with the model.
 
SanderEvers said:
Just like Spotify and Epic Games.. so.. my answer here will be the same. Starting today I will cancel all my Proton subscriptions and I will never use their platform ever again.
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They were trash to begin with, the fact people used them was a joke. Never trusted their shady practices
 
Moka Akashiya said:
Ruin what? Hosting open apps is free today, what time are you talking about? If App Stores are so expensive, why Apple is so scared of option of side-loading? I'm guess it's expensive for Apple users in first place.

And do you know that Google Play gives you all these services and devtools for $20, and not for $100 every year? You don't even need to pay and can just self-host apk files on github pages for free, if you only need devtools and not store stuff, tools that are free for everyone on all desktop platforms. Please educate yourself about current time before flaming how bad selfhosting was 20 years ago or something.
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And Android has a ton more malware than iOS. There are significant benefits to Apple's approach, no matter how much you want to handwaive them away because you think you know better. The government shouldn't be taking those benefits away from users who prefer them because you can't be bothered to buy an Android phone.
 
canadianreader said:
Amazon app is hosted by Apple and is among the most downloaded apps yet they don't pay 30% tax same goes for Uber. In this case small devs like Proton are paying the hosting for big tech.
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Proton can stop paying the hosting for big tech at ANY moment. Just remove their App from the App Store and they never have to be concerned with Apple or Apple’s App Store ever again!
 
surferfb said:
The government shouldn't be taking those benefits away from users who prefer them
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...and it does not.

The Apple App Store will remain bundled with iOS - and Apple is going to continue reviewing and approving all apps allowed for distribution.

Allowing installation of unreviewed apps increases the potential for Malware, yes - but nobody forces a consumer to do it.
 
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AppliedMicro said:
Allowing installation of unreviewed apps increases the potential for Malware, yes - but nobody forces a consumer to do it.
Click to expand...

The next counter you get is the tired old "but companies will force customers to do it in order to avoid fees from Apple".

(extremely unlikely)

source.gif
 
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AppliedMicro said:
...and it does not.

The Apple App Store will remain bundled with iOS - and Apple is going to continue reviewing and approving all apps allowed for distribution.

Allowing installation of unreviewed apps increases the potential for Malware, yes - but nobody forces a consumer to do it.
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It absolutely does.
 
surferfb said:
I kinda think he’d have told the EU “have fun explaining to your constituents why they can’t buy iPhones anymore” and hung up the phone.
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I’m not talking about the DMA. I’m talking about Apple’s commission. I do think Steve would have lowered it by now. He wasn’t a bean counter like Tim is.
 
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