It’s amazing how they continue to demonstrate the opposite of their point, isn’t it? 😂
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Proton Sues Apple Over 'Artificial and Arbitrary' App Store Fees
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"unknown developers" is software that hasn't been notarized. notarization isn't really part of the "Mac app store" but really an app signed by a developer ID handed out by Apple
Yeah, we’re not in the 90s anymore. Hosting your own app is incredibly cheap and there’s a lot of open source software and extremely affordable cloud options available. (Source: I sell software).
Yet another European company trying to freeload off of Apple's hardwork & ip. What else is new?
It's not, as has been pointed out to you repeatedly. Why do you keep chosing to ignore that?
Ruin what? Hosting open apps is free today, what time are you talking about? If App Stores are so expensive, why Apple is so scared of option of side-loading? I'm guess it's expensive for Apple users in first place.
And do you know that Google Play gives you all these services and devtools for $20, and not for $100 every year? You don't even need to pay and can just self-host apk files on github pages for free, if you only need devtools and not store stuff, tools that are free for everyone on all desktop platforms. Please educate yourself about current time before flaming how bad selfhosting was 20 years ago or something.
I'd define them as:
Market - a place where buyers and sellers interact to exchange goods.
There are two components to a market. First is a defined boundary, the other part is the buyers and sellers within that defined boundary. Developers are sellers not buyers. They get money in exchange for digital goods. You didn't define a boundary. Maybe that was my bad by not asking for "marketplace" instead. I generally define the boundary to a market by the limit where competition for buyers stops. Hence the next definition.
Competition - rivalry between sellers to attract buyers within the same market.
iPhones and Android Phones are part of the smartphone market. Sellers are competing for the same buyers.
iPhone Apps and Android Apps are not part of the same app market. Sellers are competing for different buyers in each place. Different buyers (or different sellers), different markets. People like to talk about the smartphone app market, but it's not really a thing. Developers exist on both platforms, but buyers generally only exist on one platform at any given time. Websites operate within a shared market between iOS and Android, but apps to not.
The iPhone does not have a monopoly in the smartphone market. It does have a monopoly on the iPhone app market, and that market is on par with the largest software markets on the planet. Exceeding Windows and trailing only Android in units (but close to Android on dollars). All three of these dominate their respective marketplaces and all three have been/are subjected to anti-trust actions related to how they assert their dominance in the markets.
Consoles on the other hand, are more of a mixed bag. They have some different sellers, and some different buyers, but there is also a lot of overlap. Buyers often do own more than one gaming platform and do cross-shop games between different platforms. Console platforms pit their marketplaces against each other in competition for console buyers in a manner that smartphone manufacturers do not. This is where my definition of a market breaks down because there isn't a clear line for where the competition for games begins and ends. What this does make clear to me is that this is not a good analogue for smartphone apps. Furthermore, even if we do break them up: Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, plus Steam, and others on PC as there own markets. There are far more games stores per user in the video game space than the smartphone app space even if we did consider android and iOS part of the same market place. Anyway we slice it, the video game space is better off (and much smaller) than the iOS and Android markets. Video gaming's problems imo are less the storefronts, and more the consolidation of studios behind the scenes. The remedies they may require might look very different from what iOS or Android needs to see. That's not to say that confining 100 million users to 1 storefront on a given console is good, but that it's markedly different from a billion users to 1 storefront, with less competition between these larger app markets.
If you want to say Apple is being unjustly targeted for anti-trust, find me a larger platform that isn't being targeted and hasn't been targeted before. I'm not aware of any, and I stand by my assertion that it's far better to compare Apple to its tech peers than to a much different and much smaller market/set of markets with different market forces at play.
I am also a Proton user, and I like the company, but the complaint is not as comprehensible as argued by Proton
If they say Apple ruin them why don’t they just stop making apps for the iPhone problem solve? Just make an app for Android? Or perhaps maybe learn from Huawei do your own OS so you don’t get held hostage to paying the fees?
Proton says that it has been unable to link to FAQs and customer support pages from its apps because of Apple's restrictions on links, which is a worse experience for consumers.
Don’t understand what they mean by that. We have been linking to our external FAQ, Data Privacy and Terms & Condition pages on our App since launch in 2018
Don’t understand what they mean by that. We have been linking to our external FAQ, Data Privacy and Terms & Condition pages on our App since launch in 2018
Yep mostly services and good but you can buy an adobe subscription on Amazon and many other digital goods
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Apples app store is the only place to get apps. Are you saying it’s not?
Anything for Apple hey. What about the users that want to use protons apps? Must they all buy a different phones for different services?
Serious question. Why does there need to be a competitive marketplace on Apple devices? They create the device and the hardware. They created the store. And all the developers were happy to jump on and make apps for the ecosystem. Personally I like the to can buy apps and subscribe and unsubscribe easily through iOS. Also would like to point out that here I was an At Home Advisor that if a customer had a problem with say and in app pursuance we would be the support for the customer and the refund process. This Wild West where everybody wants to make money or Apple ecosystem and not pay Apple a cent is going to backfire when these companies have to do all the support themselves.
Because of the duopoly. If smartphones were a healthy market with a dozen alternative operating systems, Apple could do whatever it wants. Yes, to some extent you are punishing success. But there are no alternatives in our system.
They are sued because you have to use the shop. Most people don't realise that you can subscribe outside of an app, and developers can't say it's cheaper through our site.
Developers buy into the platform they're developing for. Sellers - iOS and Android. They sell a platform for developers to buy into.
So do end users.
iOS attracting developers and Android attracting developers yep. Same with attracting end users.
Part of the smartphone market
Agreed.
That's like saying Amazon has a monopoly of the Amazon market. Should Walmart be able to list their products on Amazon and send users away from Amazon and onto Walmart's site? Nope.
Or AMC has a monopoly of the AMC movie theater market. Should Cinemark be able to list their movie offerings inside AMC's website and then drive AMC users towards Cinemark theaters? Nope.
Or Netflix has a monopoly of the Netflix streaming market. Should Apple be able to list their TV+ shows in Netflix and drive Netflix users away from the platform and Apple sell their TV+ subscriptions? Nope.
That's where your entire argument doesn't make sense.
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Perhaps because they mention the paid service? They would have to make completely different pages with no mention on how to sign up, and no links, especially for the iPhone app.
Funny that noone has come out to defend Apple in this case. Could it be because it is very hard to defend and they rather keep going with the same old bad analogies we've heard a thousand times?
Yeah, really expensive on the Mac. I don’t know how the hundreds od thousands developers can take it.
Newsflash:
Let Apple charge a fee for the App Store. No one has a problem with that. The problem is that Apple prohibits alternatives and wants money for nothing.
But if you can explain why applications can be purchased, downloaded, and installed on Macs without Apple controlling this or charging a fee per download/payment, then maybe we can move forward in this discussion.
they might be, but now after this BS, they can now host my spam mailbox and nothing more.
Just like Spotify and Epic Games.. so.. my answer here will be the same. Starting today I will cancel all my Proton subscriptions and I will never use their platform ever again.
I gladly compensate for you. Fighting against present-day Apple is a good cause.
HouseOwner: Hi, ive just bought a new house here and I need a few things for it.
ShopOwner: Sure what do you need ?
HO: I need some lamps, a fridge/freezer, sofa, beds, oven, table & chairs, and a TV, carpets, bedding sheets, plates, cups basically everything for a new house. I did find it strange that I wasn't allowed to bring any of my existing items with me.
SO: Great, they will be in your house when you get home. And it's refreshing to hear that you read our Policies.
.........
HO: Hi, I was just in here earlier and bought a few things for my new house, but I've gone to sort out my electricity supplier and they say I have to buy it from you ?
SO: Yes, thats correct.
HO: So you will be my supplier ?
SO: mmm not really, they supply to you, you just pay us for it and then we give them 70% of that money.
HO: Soooo why cant I just get it from them then ?
SO: Policies Sir !, of which you had full access to, prior to buying your house.
HO: ok and if I need gas for my car ?
SO: Yes, you need to buy that from us too.
HO: Food for my fridge ?
SO: Yep.
HO: Water ?
SO: Of Course Sir. And if you want to buy TV packages to watch, thats through us as well. Basically anything you need for your new house you have to buy from us.
HO: I cant buy 'anything' direct from the companies ?
SO: No Sir, again I refer you to our 'Policies' that you were well aware of before you bought your house.
HO: That doesnt seem very fair.. or indeed legal.
SO: Sir ! Again I refer you to said policies and may I point out that nowhere does it say it's fair or legal.
HO: So it's Illegal then ?
SO: Sir, whether its Illegal or Legal is irrelevant, you were aware of the policies.
HO: Well that doesn't seem right to me, I think I'll sell up and move elsewhere. I suppose your going to tell me I have to pay for the removal company via yourselves as well ?
SO: Oh no sir, you're not allowed to take any of the items you purchased with you. Policies !
HO: Nothing ?
SO: Correct.
HO: Nothing at all ?
SO: Nothing, Zilch, diddly-squat, zero, Sweet FA.
HO: So, Basically I can only keep my stuff If I continue to live here ?
SO: Welcome to Apple, Home of the Walled Garden.