Exactly, the reason why there is a case against Apple for monopolising!
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ProtonMail Compares Apple to Mafia, Says App Was Forced Into In-App Purchases in 2018
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Exactly, the reason why there is a case against Apple for monopolising!
Hmmm, there are two sides to this and I can see both. However, to be the devils advocate.....
Apple are forcing users through the appstore, why can't we just install direct from the Dev like any laptop/desktop? The appstore is full of junk and, while the concept of one place for all is superb, its hard to see good apps from bad sometimes. I absolutely loath the apps that promise to do something, you pay your $.99c, download it and find its garbage. The appstore certainly needs some revisions.
Apple Stock owner and multiple device owner. But I find the business practice in forcing app developers to mandatory add in-app-purchases quite detestable.
I setup this new retail shop in my local high street, it's a new idea. Instead of me buying products in to sell, I encouraged local artisans to rent some shelf space. I pay for the investment of time, rent, advertising, working on the shop floor to sell the products. The artisans agree to pay a % of their sales to me as part of the agreement.
One day, one of the artisans says he doesn't want to pay the fee anymore, but would still like to use my shop to sell. I politely say, I cannot do that because if I allow him to do that then everyone will want the same treatment. I would make no money and the shop would need to close. The artisan says that isn't fair because I'm the only shop in the high street doing the service and he cannot simply go else where.
One day, one of the artisans says he doesn't want to pay the fee anymore, but would still like to use my shop to sell. I politely say, I cannot do that because if I allow him to do that then everyone will want the same treatment. I would make no money and the shop would need to close. The artisan says that isn't fair because I'm the only shop in the high street doing the service and he cannot simply go else where.
But the people that run the kitchen control such a huge proportion of all the kitchens in the world that a viable business cant afford to ignore that massive market. So as he says, its like the mafia control the market: play by our rules or get out. What makes you want to defend this? Its like sanctioned repression, with the threat that at any moment the guv'nor can shut you down if he doesnt like what you are doing. Its akin to policing without a court system to keep it in control, or government by dictatorship. Apple's grip on the worlds purchasing power is so large that if the software developers don't play there, their businesses can fail, its so competitive out there.
What the guy is saying is that Apple rule the roost and you have no way to dispute their decision except by asking the one who disagrees with you. So your business hangs by a thread, at any moment they can change their mind and you have no recourse, there's no-one to argue with except the one who cut you down. When apple was a small cog in a big wheel that was fine, but these days they wield too much power: no organism will never give up that power by their own decision, thats why regulators are becoming involved.
The simple solution to this problem is that Apple open up their devices to allow installation of apps from places other than the App Store. Then Yen is free to pay for distribution, promotion, hosting/CDN, dev tools, etc (noting that Xcode is not the only way to write iOS apps these days).
One should stop using the word "mafia" for any vertically integrated organisation. The mafia will not just get you out of business, it will also kill you and your family. There are things that have a meaning and we should not minimise it by naming others by the same name.
How far Apple vertical integration is ok, is a legal question. For the time being it is legal in USA and in Europe.
I’m going to agree. Can’t wait for that third party store support from Apple to finally arrive, I’m guessing it’s not that hard... just letting iOS install apps from outside the marketplace. I also guess those marketplace app or apps themselves can’t be on both the AppStore and third party ones.
As of now though, count me out both as a customer and as a potential dev one day, I’ll be sticking only to the AppStore in both cases. The third party one seems like it’s going to be the Wild West...
I agree, a competing app store or mechanisms to sideload apps is going to be inevitable. Apple might as well be proactive about it and give that option. People saying it's apple's platform, and they can charge what they want is being naive. It's easy to paint that as monopolistic - especially when on Windows and macs, that is not how monetization or app installation works.
I also agree Apple deserves some share of the revenue for the investments they make on iPhone, iOS and app store as platform. Right now, to make profits over and above production, R&D, and all other costs - Apple charges the phone buyers and developers both. In the end all of this is a negotiation of who is willing to pay what to make some amount of profit. It would be interesting to see what would happen if side-loading of apps is allowed. For a few years, sure, people might still exclusively buy from Apple, but eventually app store revenues will whittle down as all payments will gradually move to individual apps payments mechanisms. Sure the smaller apps, where developers don't have enough scale to setup payment mechanisms, or global rollouts would remain on app store and continue paying 30% or 15% fees as necessary - but that would still be a small percent of the app store revenue that Apple commands today. Would apple then raise iPhone prices? Take a hit on profits of the iPhone ecosystem?
In conclusion: There is no sound argument against giving users a toggle to allow for the installation of third party apps outside of the Apple App Store. Apps still can be mandatorily sandboxed (otherwise they simply won't run) and can be made to comply with the general security regulations also pertaining to the App Store. Apps will still show that they are accessing the clipboard, using location services, etc. The only difference is, it's now up to the user to decide what to install. Trust Microsoft to deliver a safe xCloud streaming app, be wary of Facebook not trying to exploit that. Millions of Mac users demonstrate daily that it is possible.
Apple does not need some sort of ‘crowdfunding’ scheme through exclusive sales rights to make all of that happen. And if they do, I for one would really like to see the balance sheet that shows that Apple really needs 30% margins on devices plus the 30% cut on App Store revenue to make up for all the spending necessary to be able to provide the services that make up for a comprehensive operation system experience tailored to the security needs of their users.
Apple does not need some sort of ‘crowdfunding’ scheme through exclusive sales rights to make all of that happen. And if they do, I for one would really like to see the balance sheet that shows that Apple really needs 30% margins on devices plus the 30% cut on App Store revenue to make up for all the spending necessary to be able to provide the services that make up for a comprehensive operation system experience tailored to the security needs of their users.
The average file size of Epics Fortnite is 2GB and as per Amazon AWS Datacenter rate card for USA. 2 GB download data costs $0.09. Fortnite has been downloaded 133M times. So the cost just for this simple metric is $11,970,000, mind you that download costs vary from country to country. So this could easily go up 2x - 3x.
Now every transaction that is done in the Game is when apple gets paid and not on every game that is downloaded. This is a cost that apple must factor into the 30% they charge not to mention other costs to run the platform and its R&D which again directly impacts every game on the platform in terms of quality of games.
Without the investment in Apples processors, these games would not be as high quality as they are today competing with game consoles in the palm of your hand. This cos a lot of money.
The average file size of Epics Fortnite is 2GB and as per Amazon AWS Datacenter rate card for USA. 2 GB download data costs $0.09. Fortnite has been downloaded 133M times. So the cost just for this simple metric is $11,970,000, mind you that download costs vary from country to country. So this could easily go up 2x - 3x.
Now every transaction that is done in the Game is when apple gets paid and not on every game that is downloaded. This is a cost that apple must factor into the 30% they charge not to mention other costs to run the platform and its R&D which again directly impacts every game on the platform in terms of quality of games.
Without the investment in Apples processors, these games would not be as high quality as they are today competing with game consoles in the palm of your hand. This costs a lot of money.
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they dont make smoke...they make smoke effects.
they are free to make as much money as they like / can...fairly, without abusing their power, without distorting the market or having a disproportinate influence on their market, or exploiting their suppliers or customers, without supressing competition unfairly, paying taxes equitably and at the same rates as their competition etc....that's the argument.
Because it seems people tend to spend more money on the App Store than the Google play store while having a much smaller market share world wide. More opportunity to make money. I saw yesterday the App Store pulled in roughly twice as much money as the Play Store.
Harrod‘s, Whole Foods or High Street stores... There’s enough outlets and competition where suppliers can sell their lemonade or artisanal goods.
However, when there‘s only two or three chains of stores dividing the whole nationwide market between them, with considerable oligopoly power (you change their product, or we’ll withdraw distribution - in effect access to 20, 30 or 40% or more of the consumer population), consumers and suppliers will be clamoring for regulation.
And that’s what’s going to happen at some point.
That‘s why it might be not as easy to „take their business elsewhere“.
Also, that‘s why I have little doubt that it will be regulated. At least in parts of the world. It won‘t happen overnight, but with increasing provision of essential services through apps, it will.
However, when there‘s only two or three chains of stores dividing the whole nationwide market between them, with considerable oligopoly power (you change their product, or we’ll withdraw distribution - in effect access to 20, 30 or 40% or more of the consumer population), consumers and suppliers will be clamoring for regulation.
And that’s what’s going to happen at some point.
Not only are they in line with the industry. The fact that they‘re pretty much identical across the industry (such as Google Play or Samsung‘s app store) is an indication of a market, in which the store operators share a considerable amount of oligopoly power.
That‘s why it might be not as easy to „take their business elsewhere“.
Also, that‘s why I have little doubt that it will be regulated. At least in parts of the world. It won‘t happen overnight, but with increasing provision of essential services through apps, it will.
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I can buy the same product from not Amazon, I can load an app on my Android that isn't from the play store, I cannot however put an app on my iPhone/iPad that is not from the app store. Yes I don't need to own an iPhone and yes Apple should be compensated for anything sitting on their servers, but a developers shouldn't be forced to use a single source for app distribution.
Like I said before one of these companies is going to find the right argument to force the Apple to open up, they're not a bit player in the market..
You really think Apple pays the normal price? They also have their own data centers with unlimited bandwidth so they obviously don't pay that much.
Interesting. I actually HATE when I see "IN APP PURCHASE" I usually steer clear. I rather pay $3-$5 upfront and be left alone. I don't want subscriptions and I don't want in app purchases. I just want the App and left alone.
to force someone to have a paid product in the app...seems not right
That’s because it is not right. They are not allowed to advertise their paid products in the app unless they have an iap.
If they don’t advertise their paid for tiers then they don’t need to pay Apple anything.
Open app - sign up for free email account - receive email stating purchase options.
It’s not hard nor is it extortion.
What case is that?
So you as a dev have a great idea for an app. Want to deploy that app on a successful platform that you didn't build. However, you have decided you are going to play by your rules?
You entered into a contractual arrangement with Apple. Ask Epic how that turned out for them when they went back to court at the end of September.
Of course, things have changed since then. Apple has implemented some changes, seemingly to make it easier to address issues the devs have. Apple wants these apps within the app store, but in exchange for providing the entire thing for $99 they ask you follow the rules and pay them for their time an effort via commission.
But no. Some want access to Apples' infrastructure, clients and payments and bypass the platform Apple built. Or some after raking in $$$ now feel they want to bypass paying Apple and use everything else for free. That's some amount of chutzpah.
The thing is everyone says it isn't an issue that Apple charge 30% like every other store and that makes it alright. Well no, clearly the market isn't working and is not competitive, i.e. everyone is being forced to pay the maximum commission at all times. That is what is also under scrutiny by the authorities - is the market functioning as a market and does the consumer have real choice. One might argue that there is an element of price-fixing or colusion going on if every store charges the same fee. The issue with Apple is that there is only one store and only one means to acquire software so there is actually zero competition within the iOs platform.
This is ridiculous. I will never understand the perspective of people that come into MY store on MY land and DEMAND that I allow them to price things the way THEY see fit. GO TO ANOTHER STORE ON SOMEONE ELSES LAND if you don't like how I run things.
This is basically if you let me stay at your house for a few months and on week 2 I start demanding more space in your refrigerator and I'm tired of the couch so you guys need to let me sleep on your bed sometimes and you know what? I don't like your bathrooms so I'm gonna make my own right here in the corner of your office because I deserve to have another option of where to take a dump.
Ya'll are ridiculous if you agree with anyone siding against Apple on this. Their Hardware. Their software. Their store. Their rules. PERIOD.
This is basically if you let me stay at your house for a few months and on week 2 I start demanding more space in your refrigerator and I'm tired of the couch so you guys need to let me sleep on your bed sometimes and you know what? I don't like your bathrooms so I'm gonna make my own right here in the corner of your office because I deserve to have another option of where to take a dump.
Ya'll are ridiculous if you agree with anyone siding against Apple on this. Their Hardware. Their software. Their store. Their rules. PERIOD.
Maybe you would, if you weren’t the store but the supplier. And if every store and piece of land in the country belonged to one of two, three, maybe four giant companies that control the market.
There is no other (relevant!) store to go, to take your business to. Well except the one (Google Play) that happens to pretty much play by the same rulebook and charge similar charges.
There’s a (de facto) oligopoly on mobile app market platforms. Which is restricting competition, freedom and innovation - an effect that’s generally considered undesirable.
While you personally might not take issue with that, there can and should be a discussion about it that goes beyond „Y‘all are ridiculous... PERIOD“.
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The app store has existed as it is for over a decade. Why is what worked fine for all those years suddenly now bad?