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maflynn

macrumors Haswell
Original poster
May 3, 2009
72,195
41,543
So I started thinking about ProtonMail lately and I see a lot of talk regarding how much better it is vs. Gmail - no argument, therre. Almost anything is better then gmail.

Anyways, I'm assuming most of us use iCloud, so I'd like to see if there's any protonmail users here and why they opted for that over iCloud?

I understand the point to point encryption, but if you encrypt an email, then you have to supply a password. That becomes very cumbersome as you send out emails. I work with banks, and financial, and health institutions, and each one has a method to encrypt emails, so I'm familiar with the work effort. Most people avoid going that route, provided PHI, PI, HIPPA information isn't being discussed.

Bottom line, what makes protonmail better then icloud (for those using protonmail)?
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
Original poster
May 3, 2009
72,195
41,543
Isn't this the point?
Its A point and most email servers go with TLS as their protocol and thus sending/receiving services can read the data. With Apple's pro security stance, is this acceptable?

I'm very much security minded, but it also has to be implemented in a way that is seamless. If there's extra work then its not going to succeed. For instance, you can set up end to end encryption for a proton email, and give the recipient the password, but if you send 20 emails a day, do you want to keep doing that for most "normal" correspondences?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not down on proton mail, I'm just trying to weigh what it has to offer over iCloud. There's a level of convenience with iCloud with a measure of security.
 

kitKAC

macrumors 6502
Feb 26, 2022
376
398
With Apple's pro security stance, is this acceptable?

On the Apple support page I linked to earlier, there are two footnotes explaining why Mail, Contact and Calendar aren't encrypted. Could Apple encrypt that stuff? Probably. Would it also make it harder to use for average people? Probably. Security is always a trade-off.

Using passwords to encrypt emails from Proton Mail seems more like a one-time thing (which has limits). If it's something that's going to happen regularly, the other person can sign up for a free account.
 
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RoadCyclistID

Contributor
Oct 18, 2007
278
59
Idaho
OK I am admittedly not the tech person that you may be looking for but I have been off gmail for 3.5 years and with PM the entire time. I have been very satisfied with what they do as a company and the service and security have been rock solid. I don't worry about any issues and do a lot of business using the service. As far as the "details" go with all the encryption etc, I trust what they do and state on their site and blogs over anything that gmail or apple would do.
 
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pshufd

macrumors G3
Oct 24, 2013
9,228
13,800
New Hampshire
So I started thinking about ProtonMail lately and I see a lot of talk regarding how much better it is vs. Gmail - no argument, therre. Almost anything is better then gmail.

Anyways, I'm assuming most of us use iCloud, so I'd like to see if there's any protonmail users here and why they opted for that over iCloud?

I understand the point to point encryption, but if you encrypt an email, then you have to supply a password. That becomes very cumbersome as you send out emails. I work with banks, and financial, and health institutions, and each one has a method to encrypt emails, so I'm familiar with the work effort. Most people avoid going that route, provided PHI, PI, HIPPA information isn't being discussed.

Bottom line, what makes protonmail better then icloud (for those using protonmail)?

I tried it five or six years ago for a group chat for secure email (I didn't think that we needed it but some people in the group thought it a good idea). Not everyone used it though which meant that it was only as secure in the least secure email account in the group. So I stopped using it shortly thereafter. I mainly use iCloud email with the assumption that what I write in it could always become public.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
Original poster
May 3, 2009
72,195
41,543
I'm going to give Protonmail a shot. I registered a domain name that makes sense for me and I'll use that. I understand that apple offers the use of a domain with iCloud+. I'm using the domain with PM to simplify the email name. That is not needing to make a unique name with numbers.

I'm getting tons of spam, phishing, and other crap in my icloud email, so that's one motivating factor, will Protonmail be better rejecting spam?

I'm not down on iCloud and I'm not abandoning it, but I think using a different service could improve things a bit.
 
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pshufd

macrumors G3
Oct 24, 2013
9,228
13,800
New Hampshire
I'm going to give Protonmail a shot. I registered a domain name that makes sense for me and I'll use that. I understand that apple offers the use of a domain with iCloud+. I'm using the domain with PM to simplify the name. That is not needing to make a unique name with numbers.

I'm getting tons of spam, phishing, and other crap in my icloud email, so that's one motivating factor, will Protonmail be better rejecting spam?

I'm not down on iCloud and I'm not abandoning it, but I think using a different service could improve things a bit.

I find that the major email companies are doing a good job on spam these days.

I get the least spam with iCloud email. I get the most from Yahoo Mail and Gmail is in-between. The overall number, though, is pretty low. So I assume that the company filters are doing a good job and I also mark the few that get through in Apple Mail so there should be filter there too.
 
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Queen6

macrumors G4
I'm going to give Protonmail a shot. I registered a domain name that makes sense for me and I'll use that. I understand that apple offers the use of a domain with iCloud+. I'm using the domain with PM to simplify the name. That is not needing to make a unique name with numbers.

I'm getting tons of spam, phishing, and other crap in my icloud email, so that's one motivating factor, will Protonmail be better rejecting spam?

I'm not down on iCloud and I'm not abandoning it, but I think using a different service could improve things a bit.
Have used Protonmail for years and never seen any SPAM. Bottom line from my experience Protonmail delivers exactly as promised.

Q-6
 
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maflynn

macrumors Haswell
Original poster
May 3, 2009
72,195
41,543
I get the least spam with iCloud email.
I'm getting too much, though some of that is my fault to be sure. Click on a news site that I like to read from, but then suddenly I need to provide my email address (not paywalled), I buy an application and they need my email address. At one point years ago, I was using a dummy email account for many of those but I stopped using that.

My wife uses hotmail, and its the worst when it comes to spam, Apple does a fairly good job, though some very evident spam lands in my inbox. I see a crap ton more in my junk folder. I see too many false positives landing in there. Here's where I'm hoping that false positives are not completely blocked from protonmail.

Once the DNS and MX records are fully active, I'll look to create different email alias, and use filters, so if the email is addressed to junk@mydomain or something like software@mydomain, it will send it to a specific folder.

I see that I can easily setup filters and edit the spam filter, so I have more control then I did with Apple
 

chrono1081

macrumors G3
Jan 26, 2008
8,206
3,378
Isla Nublar
I may give ProtonMail another shot after reading this thread. The issue I ran into was trying to use it as an email for my job hunts. Many sites don't register it as a valid email address for whatever reason and I had to revert back to my spam-ridden Gmail.
 

Queen6

macrumors G4
I may give ProtonMail another shot after reading this thread. The issue I ran into was trying to use it as an email for my job hunts. Many sites don't register it as a valid email address for whatever reason and I had to revert back to my spam-ridden Gmail.
Where Protonmail shines is if both the sender and recipient are on the platform as then nobody is reading anything you write.

Gmail - very old and now defunct account for junk
Outlook - work & general email
Protonmail - strictly family & private conversation

Protonmail you can now switch between .ch & .com which will likely solve issues with sites not recognising the address.

Q-6
 
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maflynn

macrumors Haswell
Original poster
May 3, 2009
72,195
41,543
Many sites don't register it as a valid email address for whatever reason
They now have a .com TLD, so that should fix most issues. I also think when it was first introduced, protonmail used a ch TLD I think in this day and age most companies shouldn't have issues with email addresses with TLDs other then com/net/org/edu
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
Original poster
May 3, 2009
72,195
41,543
BTW, I'm using a non-traditional TLD domain, so I'll keep an eye on it
 

StellarVixen

macrumors 68040
Mar 1, 2018
3,043
5,308
Somewhere between 0 and 1
I've been using it for quite some time now. You will have to pay if you want to use it via email clients such as Mac Mail app, Outlook, Thunderbird...else you can only use it via their website.

With that said, it served me well so far. You have 500 MB of storage for free, which can be upped to 1 GB if you follow some steps, such as providing backup addresses, importing contacts, etc. I know, that is not really impressive, but for a free plan...I guess it is ok.
 
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Queen6

macrumors G4
I've been using it for quite some time now. You will have to pay if you want to use it via email clients such as Mac Mail app, Outlook, Thunderbird...etc or use it via their website.

With that said, it served me well so far. You have 500 MB of storage for free, which can be upped to 1 GB if you follow some steps, such as providing backup addresses, importing contacts, etc. I know, that is not really impressive, but for a free plan...I guess it is ok.
I just use the free plan as it's only for family and close friends so 1GB is plenty enough for plain text and the occasional picture. If I need to expand the use I'd have no issue in paying as Proton Mail delivers as promised.

Q-6
 
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orionquest

macrumors 6502a
Mar 16, 2022
767
610
The Great White North
I have a PM account, just a throw away one for those odd websites requiring a login (data scraping) that I don't use often. Otherwise it's been good.

Not sure on the complaints with gMail. Been using it for years will little problems after switching from yahoo/isp email accounts which were terrible for spam. I know the other edge of this is Google's data collection, but this is one service which works too well.

iCloud, wouldn't touch that, Apple with it's false sense of security and ever changing **** they break, then fix, or force you into a OS update, no thanks.
 
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pshufd

macrumors G3
Oct 24, 2013
9,228
13,800
New Hampshire
I have a PM account, just a throw away one for those odd websites requiring a login (data scraping) that I don't use often. Otherwise it's been good.

Not sure on the complaints with gMail. Been using it for years will little problems after switching from yahoo/isp email accounts which were terrible for spam. I know the other edge of this is Google's data collection, but this is one service which works too well.

iCloud, wouldn't touch that, Apple with it's false sense of security and ever changing **** they break, then fix, or force you into a OS update, no thanks.

I usually use gmail for buying things and it seems to do a good job at spam filtering. It does not do a good job at those places where you inadvertently sign up for offers and other stuff but, you agree to it, somewhere. My Yahoo mail is the most annoying as I got it in the 1990s and it is a very short address so there are lots of people that use it as a junk email account for purchases. Some doctor apparently used it to sign up for something as I get a lot of medical professional advertising on it. I have to opt out of those but I keep getting them over and over again.

I use the email account to give out to contacts because it is so short and easy to write down, type or remember.

I like to use clients on macOS and there is some amount of filtering by the clients. I use Apple Mail and Thunderbird. Thunderbird isn't bad for just leaving it running on a system to remove spam before you see it on another device.
 

RoadCyclistID

Contributor
Oct 18, 2007
278
59
Idaho
I'm going to give Protonmail a shot. I registered a domain name that makes sense for me and I'll use that. I understand that apple offers the use of a domain with iCloud+. I'm using the domain with PM to simplify the email name. That is not needing to make a unique name with numbers.

I'm getting tons of spam, phishing, and other crap in my icloud email, so that's one motivating factor, will Protonmail be better rejecting spam?

I'm not down on iCloud and I'm not abandoning it, but I think using a different service could improve things a bit.
Yes they are good at filtering most of it out. I dont see much at all other then things that I have signed up for and then have a quick way to remove them from the list.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
Original poster
May 3, 2009
72,195
41,543
Changing emails feels like an insurmountable mountain. I've been taking a deep dive into my current email and its just a mess. Years of laziness, where I didn't use a special junk/spam email is coming back to haunt me.

As we all know - unsubscribing doesn't do anything. Personal gripe, I hate companies that state it takes 7 to 10 business days to remove me from the list. Sorry but that's BS, we all know its an automated action, we're added to the mailing list almost immediately.

I'm starting to add filters/rules to my iCloud to delete emails from anyone I don't want, such as staples, and what not. I'm largely going to stop using my iCloud account for all things and rely now on protonmail Hopefully in time, the amount of mail landing in my icloud inbox will dissipate
 

pshufd

macrumors G3
Oct 24, 2013
9,228
13,800
New Hampshire
Changing emails feels like an insurmountable mountain. I've been taking a deep dive into my current email and its just a mess. Years of laziness, where I didn't use a special junk/spam email is coming back to haunt me.

As we all know - unsubscribing doesn't do anything. Personal gripe, I hate companies that state it takes 7 to 10 business days to remove me from the list. Sorry but that's BS, we all know its an automated action, we're added to the mailing list almost immediately.

I'm starting to add filters/rules to my iCloud to delete emails from anyone I don't want, such as staples, and what not. I'm largely going to stop using my iCloud account for all things and rely now on protonmail Hopefully in time, the amount of mail landing in my icloud inbox will dissipate

I mark the few I get as spam in iCloud, gmail, yahoo and Outlook and also mark them as spam in Apple Mail or Thunderbird. I'd say that the email companies have gotten a lot better at keeping my inbox clean. It does mean marking stuff as spam and, in the worst cases, adding filters. One other possible approach is to whitelist instead of blacklisting. Whitelist your contacts and the rest goes somewhere else that you can review once a week or once a month.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
Original poster
May 3, 2009
72,195
41,543
Let me just add, with protonmail and my own custom domain, I'm setting up multiple email addresses, one for my personal interactions, one for filling out online forms and other(s) for purchases and services.

My goal is to keep my iCloud email but use it for only a small set of needs.
 
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pshufd

macrumors G3
Oct 24, 2013
9,228
13,800
New Hampshire
I just don't think that matters. I've done that a number of times, and I still see subsequent email landing in my inbox.

Can I do that for iCloud mail?

Just add the email addresses to VIP and then select VIPs and you'll see the emails from the addresses that are flagged as VIP.
 
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