Psystar Announces Program for Third-Party PC Manufacturers to Enable Snow Leopard Installation

[jmpage2]

I'm guessing this has been brought up in one of the many previous Psystar threads, but can someone explain to me what's different between Psystar offering a solution to install Mac OS X on third party machines (which it otherwise can't be installed on) and Apple offering a solution to install Microsoft Windows on their hardware (which it can't otherwise be installed on)?

I am sincere about this question and not trolling.

For starters you have to buy an OEM copy of Windows to load with boot loader. Apple does not supply one.

Psystar have never proven they are actually buying OS X licenses with the machines they are selling. They are simply ripping Apple off.

Lastly, Windows is designed to run on generic hardware and the OEM license strictly controls this. For example you cannot migrate an OEM license to a new computer if you home built your machine, you must obtain a new license.

Apple EULA is designed around them selling the computers as appliances. There is no provision for installation on non Apple hardware, it is not allowed.

I still make the comparison with Nokia. If a Chinese bootlegger started selling knock off phones with geniune Nokia firmware hacked to run on them, Nokia would have every right to be pissed that their IP is being stolen.

 

[the vj]

Psystar is playing a very dangerous game. By offering licencess I believe they will want to make as much money as they can now because some way or another they will have to give it up.

Now... if Apple haven't being able to stop Psystar still is because there is something Psystar is doing "right" or has their right to do.

I believe when you are buying an OS that OS belong to you, you are not rentering it like when you get a Direct TV decoder. So you can install that OS when ever you want, even in a PC.

 

[doug in albq]

THE DEEP POCKETS PAYING PSYSTAR's DEFENSE IS…APPLE.

(BUT JOBS DOES NOT KNOW)

could be…it actually makes more sense than
MS bank- rolling this continuously churning oddity of a court case.

 

[WeegieMac]

I find it hilarious that people are defending someone ripping off Apple's own software like this.

Need I remind people that, regardless of the kind of machines Apple sell or whatever their policies are, the computers that run OS X remain Apple Macintosh's.

If Apple want to ensure that Apple's own OS runs only on Apple hardware then that's entirely their right, and to suggest otherwise because you don't like the current Mac SKU's is ridiculous.

 

[zombitronic]

Some of you want Apple to lose, yet you want to use OS X.

Apple sells about 90% of the $1,000.00+ computer market. Their healthy hardware margins fund their R&D which develop your beloved Snow Leopard. You do realize that if Apple takes a massive drop in hardware sales, it will hurt Apple as a company, which will hurt development of OS X, which will hurt you, the user who wants to use OS X?

You can't have it both ways.

 

[couto27]

psystar is the pirate bay of hardware

except pirate was way ahead more honest

they wasn`t selling anything

 

[BornAgainMac]

I wish they would rename their company to Apple Computers and have the same logo and call their CEO Steve Jobs. I am wondering how far they can push it. Maybe they can do the keynote at the CES show showing their new Macs.

 

[MacFly123]

Pystar has gone from interesting at the beginning to just freakin annoying now. They just don't seem to quit or they just don't get it..

More like from annoying to a bunch of little BEOTCHES!!! Just die already Psystar!!!

 

[charlituna]

Neither is the case. First, if EULAs were to go in their entirety, copyright law would remain intact, and that is what prevents you buying one copy and installing it on 5,000 computers.

the issue with being able to read the EULA came up mostly cause companies wouldn't take back open box returns on software due to the fact that you could have copied it and kept the copy, blah blah. but if you have to open the box to read the EULA how can you know that you can't use the software.

Second, EULAs in general are not at issue. The issue is the particular clause forbidding installation on non-Apple sourced computers.

which could be deemed in such a case as a copyright issue. and thus will be enforced in the countries signed to Berne if not all of them.

My view is that the clause is not going to be upheld at least in the EU, because it is a post sale restraint on use,

that the Mac OS is meant only for Apple created machines is a known fact. so you can't really call that information 'post sale'

Isn't there a pseudo-tablet machine out there already that runs OS X but isn't made by Apple?

the Modbook, which actually uses Apple hardware. they only change the screen, with the understanding that you just voided your Apple warranty. but it is the same Apple chosen logic board etc.

I'm guessing this has been brought up in one of the many previous Psystar threads, but can someone explain to me what's different between Psystar offering a solution to install Mac OS X on third party machines (which it otherwise can't be installed on) and Apple offering a solution to install Microsoft Windows on their hardware (which it can't otherwise be installed on)?

with Mac OS X, Apple uses code that looks at the hardware to see if it was made by them. this is in keeping with the currently allowed tying etc. Psystar is using code that skips that step or reports back a yes when it should be no.

with the Windows then, Microsoft has not hardware check for 'brand'. all the software that Apple provides is a partitioning program that will split your hard drive without erasing it. there are several other companies with the same utility. or you could erase your drive, repartition it and do it all by hand to the same end result.

 

[DavidSan]

Guess Im just a criminal then, oh well, **** happens. I'm looking around my office right now and see 3 G5 Power PC's, 2 MacPros and an old G4 running my rip. So, I don't feel too bad about treating myself to a machine built EXACTLY how I wanted it...without the Apple logo on the side. All of my software is legal and registered. Apple's made their money off of me, no guilt here. Just a happy OS X user running a nice little machine. When Apple went X86 they knew this was going to happen. They don't seem to care about running Windoze on their hardware.....kinda selfish to think it only works one way don't ya think?

Actually I believe you are taking things the wrong way.

Microsoft main business is selling software. So, they do not care if Windows (properly licensed) runs in a washing machine.

Apple main business is selling hardware. Mac OS X, is seeing by Apple as just part of a Macintosh. That's why they are placing an EULA, where people agree to it in order to use the software.

If you read my post I never said I bought it from Psystar, I had a box built with the Psystar boot-loader installed. I purchased a legal version of Snow Leopard MYSELF as well as retail versions of the FCP suite, so I am not doing anything wrong or breaking any laws. I'm just running a bad-ass machine for $1499 instead of $3000. I have bought over a dozen Apple computers in my lifetime. Maybe its just time for Apple to understand WHY people are buying Psystars and other Hackintosh CPU's and offer their own alternative?

Regarding if you are a criminal or not... That's a very complex situation. To be considered a criminal you have to break laws and laws are different in many places in the world. However, it is clear you are breaking an EULA, so you are not being honest. You are agreeing to something you actually are not doing. It says a lot about you.

Just, do not try to look like an innocent when you know exactly what you are doing. At least be honest. I highly doubt someone is going to prosecute you, but do not fool yourself into thinking you are not doing something wrong.

P.S. And of course, Microsoft sells some hardware and Apple sells some software, but it is not the core business.

 

[Scottsdale]

Seen some weird complaints here. One person stated that Macs are advanced hardware/components and PCs wouldn't be able to load or handle OS X and they would blow up trying. The truth is Apple has dated components that are far inferior to many newer PCs. Apple makes nice products as far as the user can see... like aluminum case, glass trackpad, backlit keyboards, and glass displays. But those aren't what runs OS X. It's the CPU and GPU and RAM and etc... most PCs at half the price of Macs have at least same component makeup.

To think Psystar NEVER bought a single OS X license is crazy. They ship with a retail disk. Now with Snow Leopard Apple has reduced the barrier from $119 to $29 for a retail disk. I don't see Apple winning this fight IF people are paying for the software. Bottom line is Apple has exhibited too strong of behavior and actions and in the end its practices are going to get it in trouble.

 

[theBB]

Your post = EPIC FAIL because why shouldn't psystar machines run just as good as 'real' macs because the hardware is exactly the same as PCs don't let anyone tell you otherwise!

Sure, the hardware is similar, but not exactly the same. That would be true if you compare HP machines with Dell as well. The differences are not always just the badge on the case. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise!

 

[SpinThis!]

For everyone who says this is a good idea, what would you pay for legitimate copy of Mac OS X?

People forget that Apple's software development costs are subsidized by its hardware. For Apple to make money, you're probably looking at $350+ for a full "retail" copy of OS X. And I bet a lot of those people would say that's too much and end up pirating it anyway—much like they do now.

At least now Apple can keep the majority of people using Mac OS X on its own machines it has full control over.

 

[iksretep]

I bought an open pro from Psystar, it never worked, 100s of emails and 100s of phone calls and they never did anything, no replacement, no refund. I am not a techie guy, so I hired someone to look at my box, when he opened it, nothing inside was connected, one of the hard drives had a crack in it. Then I was told I needed to order a restore disc, still nothing. At last, I contacted the BBB (better business bureau) and Psystar would not even answer to them. Please tell others before they make the same mistake as me. I am donating it now for parts to a local non-profit and buying myself a new mac, but will spends the next couple of years warning others not to deal with Psystar. Not so much for revenge, but really to save others the hassle I had to deal with, I wanted to believe in the underdog, but they were just a wolf in sheeps clothing.

I am VERY SURPRISED to see your comment about hard drive having a crack in it... being a tech person I hardly even believe that this can be done without a great deal of trouble. Besides as cheap as hard disk drives are I also hardly believe that someone (individual or an individual representing any company) would bother not replacing it where you can get a drive for $50-100...

I do have one of their systems which worked right out of the box, never had a problem, and only contacted Psystar because they did not charge me for the upgraded RAM they put in the computer and to avoid any misunderstandings I did call to pay promptly.

Do I think their system is good? well.... yea... their system runs os x, but it sure does not look apple designed. Buying an apple for me also means that I get all the "awesomely" designed hardware that comes with os x --- so I won't be buying another one from them... bought psystar computer for kicks and to run some performance tests. In fact I do own 6 apple non portable computers (mac pros, minis, and imacs) on top of my 2 macbook pro portables... in fact my wife complains that our spare bedroom turned into an over the top apple store replica... so when my psystar dies it will not even get serviced, but it will the darkest corner of my dumpster.

I think you had some bad experience or are simply exaggerating your experience... cracked hard drive? Come on...

 

[CyberBob859]

My guess is that they are trying to entice some big (deep pocketed) hardware supplier like Dell or HP to join in the fight against Apple. If they can hook someone big, then they won't have to fund the whole legal battle.

I think it's more like Psystar waiting for Apple to say something like this:

"OK, what's it going to take for you guys to shut down for good and just go away forever."

Of which case, they'll negotiate the amount to shut them up, and Psystar's owners, investors, and top management will be happy, because (IMO) that's all they wanted in the first place.

 

[DipDog3]

Why does this company keep getting press?

Does anyone even buy these Pystar computers?

 

[DesignerOnMac]

I find it hilarious that people are defending someone ripping off Apple's own software like this.

Need I remind people that, regardless of the kind of machines Apple sell or whatever their policies are, the computers that run OS X remain Apple Macintosh's.

If Apple want to ensure that Apple's own OS runs only on Apple hardware then that's entirely their right, and to suggest otherwise because you don't like the current Mac SKU's is ridiculous.

Maybe some of these same people are the same ones who buy a single copy of the OS and install it on multiple machines instead of getting a family pack?

 

[Master Chief]

we have real law in europe, no case law.

therefore look up the BGB in germany. having the eula inside the package forces you to agree to the EULA without being able to read it. that alone invalidates it most likely.

then there is the other question if a usage restriction like in apples eula is superseeded by the BGB. a lot of lawyers seem to think it is. at least it stopped apple from going to court so there must be something to it.

The MAC OSX V10.6 RETAIL box (Part No. MC223N/A) does not include the EULA in The Netherlands, and possibly other EU countries as well. There's not even a note about being an update/upgrade. Or that you may install it on Apple branded hardware only. Maybe that is why they did include the two white Apple logo stickers

It does state something about a software license, which I assume should have been part of the box (?) but it wasn't. I checked with 61 other people and they all did not receive the EULA/Software License Agreement. End of story for Apple.

There are even people who contacted Apple by mail, telling them that they use a Hackintosh. And what do you think? Nope. There is, up to today, not a single sign of life from Apple legal! Nothing! Nada!

And what about all on-line articles about how to setup a Hackintosh? Where's Apple legal?

What about the tons of forums and IRC channels with people hacking the crack out of OS X? Where's Apple legal?

I think that many of the "hack" users will switch, eventually, when they have the cash for it

 

[bearbear]

If you pay for the software outright you should be able to do whatever you like with it as long as it's for your personal use. If Psystar wins it just means more options for me as a consumer so what do I care?

 

[pdjudd]

If you pay for the software outright you should be able to do whatever you like with it as long as it's for your personal use. If Psystar wins it just means more options for me as a consumer so what do I care?

You don;t pay for it outright. You license it. Big difference.

 

[theheadguy]

So far Psystar has yet to prove that they have purchased a single copy of OSX. None. Their CEO testified that all records were "lost"

Get over it already!!@! Innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around!!! I guess it doesn't matter what year it is, people are always ready for a good old fashioned witch hunt...

 

[pdjudd]

Apple, to some extent, is making the market here due to their unwillingness to release a headless Mac that is more powerful than the iMac, but less then the MacPro.

Apple does not create markets. They either choose to participate or not to participate in existing markets. Judge Allsup allready ruled that there is no "mac market".

In your case, Apple does not create a Headless Mac in the configuration that you want. That is their choice.

 

[charlituna]

Apple, to some extent, is making the market here due to their unwillingness to release a headless Mac that is more powerful than the iMac, but less then the MacPro.

that a company chooses not to make something doesn't make someone else doing so right.

So you can install that OS when ever you want, even in a PC.

right now the current laws disagree with you. We'll see what happens after these trials

To think Psystar NEVER bought a single OS X license is crazy. They ship with a retail disk.

if you were to ask any Apple store what the number one shoplifted item is, they are most likely to say software. Certainly in the top 3. and the number one shoplifted software is very likely the OS. so thus Psystar could have retail disks and never bought them. They don't have receipts to prove otherwise so the question is in the air.

as for other issues of money. these boot loaders are open source yes. and doesn't open source have a 'license' that you can use it all you want so long as you aren't selling it without added content. thus Psystar might be violating that fair play which is just not cool.

 

[pdjudd]

Get over it already!!@! Innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around!!! I guess it doesn't matter what year it is, people are always ready for a good old fashioned witch hunt...

Apple made an accusation - Psystar as a business has an expectation to maintain business records like that. If they cannot provide them than it is presumed that such records never existed.

In the software resell business, you need to keep records for various purposes. Psystar does not have them. Simply possessing something doesn't mean that it was acquired legally. THeir CEO even admits they don't have any records. Apple can argue that none ever existed and the judge can agree.

 

[couto27]

The MAC OSX V10.6 RETAIL box (Part No. MC223N/A) does not include the EULA in The Netherlands, and possibly other EU countries as well. There's not even a note about being an update/upgrade. Or that you may install it on Apple branded hardware only. Maybe that is why they did include the two white Apple logo stickers

It does state something about a software license, which I assume should have been part of the box (?) but it wasn't. I checked with 61 other people and they all did not receive the EULA/Software License Agreement. End of story for Apple.

There are even people who contacted Apple by mail, telling them that they use a Hackintosh. And what do you think? There's not a single sign of life from Apple legal! Nothing! Nada!

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