Psystar Demos 'Open Computer' on Video

[dfelliott]

Netkas PC EFI is just Apple's booter

Pystar relies on osx86 developer netkas' PC-EFI software, which they apparently just assumed was free for the taking (& selling) without bothering to ask him about it.

Netkas has a lot of nerve. His PC EFI booter is a branch of an earlier version of mine which is in turn based on Apple's boot-132 code. He basically fixed a few bugs in the early version, added FSB detection, and that was PC EFI. Later on he added GPT support and some other things like the device-properties blob (which IMO is useless, Natit is a lot better from an engineering perspective as it can remain a separate module). All he's done is modify the Apple-supplied booter and marketed it as his own.

Now as far as I can tell by my plain reading of the APSL he's free to add his own code and link it into the booter without distributing source. But he must release bugfixes and modifications to the existing code in order to be in compliance with the APSL. He does not, so he has no rights to distribute PC EFI. He also does not display a prominent notice that portions of his binary code are covered by the APSL.

Not to mention, how the hell is netkas going to sue anyone? He remains anonymous so what's he going to do, take Psystar to court? I don't think so.

 

[!¡ V ¡!]

Its an all in one, not a desktop. It saves weight by using mostly mobile parts, and ditching all but basic features.

Knowing well enough that the iMac has mobile parts, saves money by putting an inferior TN panel in the 20" and expensive mobile components (except HDD) in the Al iMac. Where is the reasoning in that?

There is no reason for the iMac to have mobile parts, other than being stubborn to make its as slim as possible which serve it no purpose.

Put desktop component (cheaper and upgradable), an IPS panel if need be a thicker case or come up with something fitting. This would only equal to more acceptance since it will be powerful enough and cheap enough for many more to enjoy and experience. There is no logic in iMac philosophy, the Mac community is not comprised of novice or aged users. We are quite capable of upgrading HDD, RAM, ROM Drives, GPU. thinks of its user-base as invalids.

 

[subsonix]

As a family machine, yes. It's an absolutely amazing machine for most. However, coming from PowerMacs I am extremely disappointed with mine. I guess I'm kind of used to computers beating my expectations.

Ok but time moves forward, a 2 ghz mac mini beats a 2 ghz dual g5 power pc in processing power.

But it sounds as if you will have to go for a dual xeon to get the performance boost you are speaking about.

 

[IJ Reilly]

You asked the question to begin with, why not post it as a poll of the week/day.

I was thinking the very same thing... coming up!

The astute and revered IJ Reilly's question was concerning "a non-Apple Mac." There's a big difference than hardware of your choice. This model could never, ever have any feasibility.

I'd prefer to be showered with silver and gold, but thanks anyway.

I'm not sure if there's a real difference between "hardware of your choice" and "a non-Apple Mac." Presumably the deal would the same as with retail or OEM copies of Windows.

 

[!¡ V ¡!]

I dont know wat you mean here drop the pounds?

Getting thinner and lighter.

Not true, you can only speak for yourself in this case. If you dont use the ports, need a ligthweight computer for normal office work then there is no reason why the pro is better suited.

So when introduced the 12" PowerBook, was it such a bad idea. Comparing the MBA to the PowerBook 12", the MBA only defeats the PB in the size and weight category (exclude processor debate). The 12" PB was more capable.

This type of comparisons only happens with computers oddly enough. You never hear of people complaining that you cant upgrade the motor of their new blender in the kitchen or how many watts it has etc.

True since todays technology is top-of-the-line available to consumer, however in months it has already dropped by 1/3 in price and something better is offered. It's the product turnaround that matter and the computing field is notorious for this fact.

 

[!¡ V ¡!]

Although the recent imacs are pretty powerful. The HD´s are regular 3.5" AFAIK and there is a dedicated graphics card.

I usually state that the HDD is not a laptop drive and as far as the graphics go, on the low end iMac its integrated while the it is upgradable but not supported (which is debatable).

 

[subsonix]

Getting thinner and lighter.

Technology improvements makes that possible. And I think you might be surpriced about the numbers of people that actually values features like that.

So when introduced the 12" PowerBook, was it such a bad idea. Comparing the MBA to the PowerBook 12", the MBA only defeats the PB in the size and weight category (exclude processor debate). The 12" PB was more capable.

No it wasn´t a bad idea, I dont get you, the 12" PB was a great computer IMO.

True since todays technology is top-of-the-line available to consumer, however in months it has already dropped by 1/3 in price and something better is offered. It's the product turnaround that matter and the computing field is notorious for this fact.

Haha no you dont get me. It doesn´t matter if there is a new motor in the new blender of twice the wattage in a month, it´s a pointless discussion as long as its power is sufficient for its task, the same should apply for computers.

 

[NC MacGuy]

I'd prefer to be showered with silver and gold, but thanks anyway.

I'm not sure if there's a real difference between "hardware of your choice" and "a non-Apple Mac." Presumably the deal would the same as with retail or OEM copies of Windows.

If I had some silver and gold, I'd throw some down the hole for ya'. Love reading most your posts

One of the reasons Apple touts their stuff "just works" is they take no responsibility for OSX in the hands of overclocking, back room hacks who don't necessarily use all compatible pieces parts.
This is a big reason I've had my fair amount of troubles with windows.
Drivers here, patches there, this card doesn't work with that drive......

It'd never work. Apple cares too much about their stuff working to tarnish that perception with do-it-yourselfers.

 

[subsonix]

I usually state that the HDD is not a laptop drive and as far as the graphics go, on the low end iMac its integrated while the it is upgradable but not supported (which is debatable).

It´s a 128mb ATI radion in the entry level model.

 

[!¡ V ¡!]

It´s a 128mb ATI radion in the entry level model.

I was thinking back to when the entry level model had integrated graphics, that seems to have change now, good.

 

[IJ Reilly]

If I had some silver and gold, I'd throw some down the hole for ya'. Love reading most your posts

Just most of them, eh?

Poll posted:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/475874/

 

[BenRoethig]

Ok but time moves forward, a 2 ghz mac mini beats a 2 ghz dual g5 power pc in processing power.

Its also comparative. When I get a new desktop I expect prime performance with even the latest software. The iMac has displayed the beachball far too often. Plus the form factor has limited me from more than a few business and hobby related tasks.

But it sounds as if you will have to go for a dual xeon to get the performance boost you are speaking about.

That the part that concerns me I have to pay twice as much and get a workstation to get something similar to what I had.

 

[!¡ V ¡!]

Technology improvements makes that possible. And I think you might be surpriced about the numbers of people that actually values features like that.

Really, then why use laptop component (more expensive) rather than desktop components (cheaper / better performance).

No it wasn´t a bad idea, I dont get you, the 12" PB was a great computer IMO.

Never said the PB 12" was a bad idea. In fact you agree with me the the 12" PB was powerful and capable compared to the MBA.

Haha no you dont get me. It doesn´t matter if there is a new motor in the new blender of twice the wattage in a month, it´s a pointless discussion as long as its power is sufficient for its task, the same should apply for computers.

I hope it did happen as such, however if that ever did companies would all file for bankruptcy protection and computer technology would see no reason to profit from any improvements.

 

[BenRoethig]

I was thinking back to when the entry level model had integrated graphics, that seems to have change now, good.

Not exactly. They dropped the low end model. To be honest, they would have probably been better off dropping the Mini.

 

[subsonix]

Its also comparative. When I get a new desktop I expect prime performance with even the latest software. The iMac has displayed the beachball far too often. Plus the form factor has limited me from more than a few business and hobby related tasks.

Ok, I edited my post but you would need to move to dual xeon anyway then is my guess.

 

[subsonix]

Really, then why use laptop component (more expensive) rather than desktop components (cheaper / better performance).

Becauce people value the slim form factor as I said.

Never said the PB 12" was a bad idea. In fact you agree with me the the 12" PB was powerful and capable compared to the MBA.

No I never said that, I said that the 12" power book was a great computer.

I hope it did happen as such, however if that ever did companies would all file for bankruptcy protection and computer technology would see no reason to profit from any improvements.

There are improvements in other areas as AI and user intefaces. But dont get me wrong I´m not saing processing power isn´t important, just that it´s not the only factor to consider anymore.

But could we leave this perhaps and continue with the topic at hand?

 

[NC MacGuy]

somebody buys one of these computers and it crashes and or fails due to no fault of Apple or OSX. It will end up being a hardware compatibility issue and the purchaser will start saying that Apple makes a horrible product and that they don't work.

Frankly, the mini might not be as powerful as an iMac or a pro computer but it does what most people need which is check emails, type documents, and surf the web. It amazes me that some people would be so cheap as to only see a price or dollar consideration as opposed to also looking at the design and elegance of what is now Apple Computers..

I'll find it both amusing and amazing if they SHIP ONE.

 

[BenRoethig]

Ok, I edited my post but you would need to move to dual xeon anyway then is my guess.

Not unless I win the lottery. As mediocre as the iMac is, it cost me under $1700 after taxes, iWork, and the Applecare required for an Ive designed computer. the 2.8ghz SP MacPro after display and speakers weighs in at over three grand.

 

[GoodWatch]

I have no doubt that you can't build a equivilant mac pro for cheaper than you can buy a proper mac pro.
However to be fair the open computer is not supposed to be an alternative to the mac pro, it's supposed to be an alternative to the mini.
So taking out any issues of legality or morality. It still isn't fair to compare it to the mac pro as it was not really going after the mac pro.

That wasn't my point. My point is that in spite of the now long lasting insane exchange rate Apple still are charging us the numerical Euro price as our US friends are charged in US$. So 1000 dollar = 1000 Euro but should be something like 595 Euro now. And before some of you start: yes, I don't have to buy the stuff and yes Apple is a business and no we shouldn't whine. Did I leave something out?

 

[NC MacGuy]

That wasn't my point. My point is that in spite of the now long lasting insane exchange rate Apple still are charging us the numerical Euro price as our US friends are charged in US$. So 1000 dollar = 1000 Euro but should be something like 595 Euro now. And before some of you start: yes, I don't have to buy the stuff and yes Apple is a business and no we shouldn't whine. Did I leave something out?

They say they also have an open computer pro, btw.

 

[smartaleck]

This is a good thing for the consumer

Whether or not this particular machine works splendidly or not, this type of innovation is good first step for the consumer. If any other company could develop a rock-solid Mac compatible machine, it could force apple to price their machines more competitively, add more features, and force them to stay innovative. Remember: Apple products carry a hefty luxury premium beyond the cost of the actual machine (ie ipods have a high profit margin because people will pay more for them). This based on the attractiveness of the brand to lifestyle conscious consumers, and also because it is essentially a closed system: either you pay apple's prices to get apple products or you're out of the loop. So adding diversity to the mix could be good for everyone.

That being said, one of the good things about Apple's closed system is that you know that everything will work across the board, because apple signs off on all hardware/software. So the downside of 3rd party Mac-clones is that one could run into windows-like compatibility issues, where there are so many people making hardware and software that the OS has to be a lowest-common denominator system in a a sense.

The reality is probably that apple would fight tooth and nail against 3rd party clones, much the same way they sabotaged unlocked iphones and turned them into bricks. Apple is nothing if not plucky and resourceful in maintaining their empire, eh?

Finally, the Apple OS EULA maybe a complicated legal thing, but as it's been pointed out, apple demanding that their OS only runs on their hardware is as absurd as a car company saying that you can only drive on their roads.

 

[subsonix]

Not unless I win the lottery. As mediocre as the iMac is, it cost me under $1700 after taxes, iWork, and the Applecare required for an Ive designed computer. the 2.8ghz SP MacPro after display and speakers weighs in at over three grand.

The pro models have always been pricey. What did the sawtooth g4 cost?

What are you doing with a recent imac to get beachball? I think they are pretty speedy, and there are a lot of people who use them in pro surroundings. I´ve seen them in demos on show rooms etc (euphonix), they would never chose this model if it wasn´t up to the task.

 

[BenRoethig]

The pro models have always been pricey. What did the sawtooth g4 cost?

The Initial G3/4 releases started at $1599. They got as low as $1299. The cheapest Mac Pro is $300 more expensive than my mid-level G3 was in '99

What are you doing with a recent imac to get beachball? I think they are pretty speedy, and there are a lot of people who use them in pro surroundings. I´ve seen them in demos on show rooms etc (euphonix), they would never chose this model if it wasn´t up to the task.

iPhoto, iWeb, iMovie, Google Earth. It really isn't all that fast in anything above web browsers, mail, or office suites.

 

[subsonix]

iPhoto, iWeb, iMovie, Google Earth. It really isn't all that fast in anything above web browsers, mail, or office suites.

It´s fast enogh IMO, but it depends on what you want to do I guess, 3d rendering then it can´t really get fast enough, music recording definetly fast enough.

 

[j05h]

Pystar relies on osx86 developer netkas' PC-EFI software, which they apparently just assumed was free for the taking (& selling) without bothering to ask him about it. Obviously he's not too happy about it and neither are the folks using it, as this could obviously bring the wrath of Apple Legal down upon his shoulders, or just simply piss him off enough to stop developing PC_EFI.

As of 15 April, Pystar is violating his licence.

I use a OSx86 computer that I built myself as my main computer. I've been able to do all the updates from apple since 10.5 except one. That one I had to wait a day and download a hacked version. It's been very easy to update. But I'm afraid this company is going to screw it up for everybody. Apple might start going out of it's way to make updates not work on generic PCs.