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Psystar Winding Down Business as Web Site Goes Dark

cmaier said:
That's my point; you have spoken against American law and society.
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Even if I had, why would this be an invitation to attack English law and society with random, off-topic points (which I happen to pretty much agree with :D )?

Anyway, yeah, I am speaking against some aspects of C20 American law, but I don't believe I've made any overt criticisms of American society. I have perhaps criticised the people for allowing corporations (i.e. a select minority of people) to satisfy their sense of entitlement, countering the view in this whole thread that it is society that has developed a sense of entitlement.

I am also speaking very much in favour of elements of the US Constitution and its underlying principles, and I believe Apple - by taking advantage of the letter of modern innovations - is not adhering to these principles. No corporation has an obligation to make a profit at all costs, merely to strive to do what it told its shareholders it would do.
 
Veri said:
Even if I had, why would this be an invitation to attack English law and society with random, off-topic points (which I happen to pretty much agree with :D )?
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These points were neither random nor off-topic. You wrote repeatedly about the First Amendment. My points concerned rights guaranteed to Americans under the First Amendment (speech, privacy [via the penumbral theory], etc.). You complained about contract law in the U.S., so I pointed out that the elements you don't like come from British law. This all seems very much on point. In America we have a saying - before you complain about my house, go get your own house in order.
 
cmaier said:
These points were neither random nor off-topic. You wrote repeatedly about the First Amendment. My points concerned rights guaranteed to Americans under the First Amendment (speech, privacy [via the penumbral theory], etc.). You complained about contract law in the U.S., so I pointed out that the elements you don't like come from British law. This all seems very much on point. In America we have a saying - before you complain about my house, go get your own house in order.
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What if you dont own a house. :D
 
cmaier said:
These points were neither random nor off-topic. You wrote repeatedly about the First Amendment. My points concerned rights guaranteed to Americans under the First Amendment (speech, privacy [via the penumbral theory], etc.). You complained about contract law in the U.S., so I pointed out that the elements you don't like come from British law. This all seems very much on point. In America we have a saying - before you complain about my house, go get your own house in order.
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Obviously, from his long winding ramblings about everything and nothing and his questionning not of the verdict but of the very nature of laws not of is own country, we are faced here with the worse kind of troll : The "I like the sound of my fingers typing" troll.

(this one was ad hominem).
 
cmaier said:
You complained about contract law in the U.S., so I pointed out that the elements you don't like come from British law. This all seems very much on point.
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The common law you have used as part of your argument comes from English (not making any assumptions about those pesky Scots or my partner will give me a stern look) common law, agreed. But...

In America we have a saying - before you complain about my house, go get your own house in order.
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...this appears to be an assumption about my relationship with where I live followed by a tu quoque fallacy.

And, honestly, the US is the only superpower, exerting strong influence on the laws of many other countries. Thus a good way to change certain laws in my jurisdiction - particularly those based on international treaty - is to speak for a change in the law in your jurisdiction.

Anyway, it turns out that more than a few people over in the US agree with my views and will benefit too :). But it is usually edumacational to hear informed and fairly reasoned opinions from those who don't agree with me - otherwise, no-one would learn anything! - and you've supplied them. I'm not even sure we've disagreed on much: you've discussed more the nature of US law as it is, revealing a couple of interesting details to me, and I've discussed its relation to the Constitution etc.

(But KnightWRX you seem quite angry at my thoughts and I hope we can kiss and make up as I'm about to go to bed. :D )

In America, everyone owns a house because we're so rich from our strong intellectual property regime.
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Heheh. When I was thinking about settling there more permanently near the start of the decade, I was shocked by how cheap real estate is! But, quite trivially, there is so much of it compared to England, and I am living in what was then (iirc, maybe still is) the most expensive county outside London.
 
We respectfully disagree with courts notion that we are "hardcore copyright infringers". Psystar has never, and will never, condone software piracy. It's your software, you should be able to use it where you want to. If you purchase an off-the-shelf copy of OS X Snow Leopard, its your right to use that software. A publisher cannot forbid you from reading a book in the bathroom or listening to a music disc while riding your bicycle. There should be no difference in the software realm, no matter how much money Apple or anyone else throws at it. That is the real issue here and what we have always been fighting for.
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I agree with Psystar 100% we should be able to do anything with the copy of the operating system.. , thats a quote from there website.. I really hope Psystar wins this.. I mean even Microsoft and Linux as far as I know your allowed to install it on any system, and it should be the same for OSX..
 
MorphingDragon said:
What win, they've lost they cant sell or encourage hackintoshs. How are you supposed to win out of that!?
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I am aware of that but they've updated there website and looks like they are planning something..

Psystar has voluntarily suspended the sale of our Rebel EFI software product. Psystar feels it would be prudent to halt the sale of Rebel EFI while we explicitly ask the court for clarification on the legality of Rebel EFI. Our patience has been tested but our resolve is unwavering. Psystar's vision of bringing the Mac OS to generic PC hardware is and always will be unyielding. Although Rebel EFI may be temporarily unavailable for purchase on the Psystar online store, those who purchase a t-shirt or donate over twenty dollars will receive one free copy of Rebel EFI once the court has ruled in our favor on this issue.

We respectfully disagree with courts notion that we are "hardcore copyright infringers". Psystar has never, and will never, condone software piracy. It's your software, you should be able to use it where you want to. If you purchase an off-the-shelf copy of OS X Snow Leopard, its your right to use that software. A publisher cannot forbid you from reading a book in the bathroom or listening to a music disc while riding your bicycle. There should be no difference in the software realm, no matter how much money Apple or anyone else throws at it. That is the real issue here and what we have always been fighting for.

Psystar will continue to support all of its existing customers of hardware and software through this transitional period. Warranties on hardware will continue to be honored as long the customer has a valid warranty. Rebel EFI support for existing customers, as always, will remain exclusively available through email and the built-in ticket interface.

Earlier this month, Psystar discontinued the sale of all its computer systems. In the coming days, we will again be offering complete systems but at discounted prices as they will be bundled with your choice of Linux operating system. In addition to using only first quality components, our hardware specifically chosen such that it is known to be compatible with OS X (via Apples own drivers or open source offerings online). This makes it easier to get up and running with your favorite XNU based operating system, including Pure Darwin.

Also worth mentioning are new flavors of our wildly popular Rebel EFI software product (pending court for release). These include editions tailored to specific off the shelf hardware including the Dell 9 Mini and HP Mini netbooks. In the interim, please keep up to date with Psystar's open source offerings @ https://foundry.psystar.com . Note, those who qualify for a free copy of Rebel EFI will be able to choose one of these new offerings.

Any and all information regarding Rebel EFI, future software products and all other things Psystar should be directed to press@psystar.com or legal@psystar.com.
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dejo said:
So, by that logic I should be able to use Xbox games on my Playstation, right? :rolleyes:
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Remember Bleem! for Dreamcast and the uproar that caused? Playing PS1 games on a Dreamcast (and PC) made Sony VERY upset!

IIRC, Bleem! won their court case, but Sony ended up buying them out and killing the product line anyway.
 
Yamcha said:
I agree with Psystar 100% we should be able to do anything with the copy of the operating system.. , thats a quote from there website.. I really hope Psystar wins this.
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How would you expect software companies to make any money if you are "able to do anything with the copy of the operating system."

I mean even Microsoft and Linux as far as I know your allowed to install it on any system, and it should be the same for OSX.
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Why does everyone have to be the same as Microsoft and Linux? What's wrong with having alternatives?
 
MacRumors said:


Dow Jones Newswires reports that unauthorized Mac clone maker Psystar has begun the process of winding down its business ahead of a December 31st deadline set by a federal court judge in granting Apple a permanent injunction preventing Psystar from selling hardware with Mac OS X preinstalled or enabling others to infringe on Apple's copyrights.To that end, Psystar's web site, which serves as its primary sales channel, became inaccessible yesterday and it appers doubtful that it will be revived.

In the permanent injunction granted earlier this week, federal court judge William Alsup declined to grant Psystar's request to exclude from the injunction its Rebel EFI software, which enables consumers and other third parties to install Mac OS X on non-Apple computers. Alsup noted, however, that Psystar could bring a separate case to address the legality of Rebel EFI, which was not subject to full disclosure in the trial, although the company could be held in contempt if it continued selling the software before its legality had been addressed.

Given Psystar's bold history of business and legal moves, it did not appear out of the question that its management might decide to press the issue of Rebel EFI's legality, but it does now seem that Psystar has finally conceded and will be shutting down its operations in the very near future.

Article Link: Psystar Winding Down Business as Web Site Goes Dark
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Buh-bye.

Not that Apple's prices would go down as a response, nor should they, but the rest of us have to be respectful of others' intellectual property. Psystar didn't. And it was disgusting.
 
Yamcha said:
I agree with Psystar 100% we should be able to do anything with the copy of the operating system.. , thats a quote from there website.. I really hope Psystar wins this.. I mean even Microsoft and Linux as far as I know your allowed to install it on any system, and it should be the same for OSX..
Click to expand...

Well, Apple designed OS X and it's up to them to say what it goes on.

If you made an operating system, then you can design the limits.

As can any of us.

Linux is open source freeware. It's better than Windows, but not as refined and there are hardware compatibilities there, too. (My Epson scanner, Perfection 4180, works great on the Mac. Won't work in Linux.)

Windows is... Well, I don't want to insult garbage, especially as I've yet to take it to the curb... :eek:
 
Yamcha said:
I agree with Psystar 100% we should be able to do anything with the copy of the operating system.. , thats a quote from there website.. I really hope Psystar wins this.. I mean even Microsoft and Linux as far as I know your allowed to install it on any system, and it should be the same for OSX..
Click to expand...

They already lost. Repeatedly. They're not going to "win" anything. And if we are allowed to install OS X on any system, you can bet we won't see many more versions of OS X.
 
Veri said:
Meanwhile, the Apple EULA, if I agree to it, restricts what I could otherwise do anyway thanks to Copyright (and other) law. If I were to install OS X on my white box, I'm not breaking Copyright law, I'm just not adhering to the conditions of an EULA which I haven't agreed to anyway.
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Actually, there is at least one right that Apple's SLA gives you that you would otherwise not have: The right to sell a Macintosh together with a legally installed upgrade of MacOS X. Copyright law doesn't give you that right, nor does the first sale doctrine. But it's part of Apple's SLA, so you are allowed to do it.

But back to what you said, copyright law allows you to install software if and only if you have the permission of the copyright holder. Unless the copyright holder gives unilateral permission to some or all people without a contract (and Apple doesn't), you need some kind of contract. Apple offers such a contract, and acceptance of Apple's SLA is one payment that Apple wants from you to enter the contract. If you don't agree to the SLA then there is no contract, and no permission to copy, therefore copyright infringement. If you agree to the SLA and still install OS X on your white box, then you didn't have permission of the copyright holder to do that, so it is copyright infringement.

In case of Apple's SLA, the only penalty it has for breaching the license is that the license becomes void (and therefore any copies must be destroyed and no new ones created etc.). So whether you call installing MacOS X on your white box "copyright infringement" or "breach of license" doesn't make any practical difference.
 
gnasher729 said:
Actually, there is at least one right that Apple's SLA gives you that you would otherwise not have: The right to sell a Macintosh together with a legally installed upgrade of MacOS X. Copyright law doesn't give you that right, nor does the first sale doctrine. But it's part of Apple's SLA, so you are allowed to do it.
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That's exactly what the first sale doctrine permits. 17 USC 109. You can't lend, lease, or rent it for commercial advantage, but you can sell it.
 
http://www.psystar.com/

Psystar Temporarily Halts Sale of Rebel EFI
December 22, 2009

Psystar has voluntarily suspended the sale of our Rebel EFI software product. Psystar feels it would be prudent to halt the sale of Rebel EFI while we explicitly ask the court for clarification on the legality of Rebel EFI. Our patience has been tested but our resolve is unwavering. Psystar's vision of bringing the Mac OS to generic PC hardware is and always will be unyielding. Although Rebel EFI may be temporarily unavailable for purchase on the Psystar online store, those who purchase a t-shirt or donate over twenty dollars will receive one free copy of Rebel EFI once the court has ruled in our favor on this issue.

We respectfully disagree with courts notion that we are "hardcore copyright infringers". Psystar has never, and will never, condone software piracy. It's your software, you should be able to use it where you want to. If you purchase an off-the-shelf copy of OS X Snow Leopard, its your right to use that software. A publisher cannot forbid you from reading a book in the bathroom or listening to a music disc while riding your bicycle. There should be no difference in the software realm, no matter how much money Apple or anyone else throws at it. That is the real issue here and what we have always been fighting for.

Psystar will continue to support all of its existing customers of hardware and software through this transitional period. Warranties on hardware will continue to be honored as long the customer has a valid warranty. Rebel EFI support for existing customers, as always, will remain exclusively available through email and the built-in ticket interface.

Earlier this month, Psystar discontinued the sale of all its computer systems. In the coming days, we will again be offering complete systems but at discounted prices as they will be bundled with your choice of Linux operating system. In addition to using only first quality components, our hardware specifically chosen such that it is known to be compatible with OS X (via Apples own drivers or open source offerings online). This makes it easier to get up and running with your favorite XNU based operating system, including Pure Darwin.

Also worth mentioning are new flavors of our wildly popular Rebel EFI software product (pending court for release). These include editions tailored to specific off the shelf hardware including the Dell 9 Mini and HP Mini netbooks. In the interim, please keep up to date with Psystar's open source offerings @ https://foundry.psystar.com . Note, those who qualify for a free copy of Rebel EFI will be able to choose one of these new offerings.

Any and all information regarding Rebel EFI, future software products and all other things Psystar should be directed to press@psystar.com or legal@psystar.com.
 
*LTD* said:
Psystar will continue to support all of its existing customers of hardware and software through this transitional period. Warranties on hardware will continue to be honored as long the customer has a valid warranty. Rebel EFI support for existing customers, as always, will remain exclusively available through email and the built-in ticket interface.
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The above is probably a violation of the injunction. Yet more contempt of court.
 
cmaier said:
The above is probably a violation of the injunction. Yet more contempt of court.
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however, not honoring warranty & support would possibly get then into some trouble as well. Seeing how it is a pre-existing contract between Psystar and it's customers, it should be outside of the injunction.
 
synth3tik said:
however, not honoring warranty & support would possibly get then into some trouble as well. Seeing how it is a pre-existing contract between Psystar and it's customers, it should be outside of the injunction.
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No, the injunction takes precedence over everything, including pre-existing contracts. For example, if people had placed orders which had not yet shipped, those too would be pre-existing contracts. An injunction is a direct order from the court directing the company and its officers to perform or to not perform specific actions - they have to obey. The injunction makes no exception for pre-existing customers. The existing customers may then be able to sue Psystar for breach of warrantee/contract, but that's not the court's problem, it's Psystar's, and they got themselves into this mess.
 
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