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There is simply no reason not to buy Macs nowadays...

You could not be more wrong. I built my own hacintosh because i wanted something mid-range that i could actually upgrade when i see fit. I spend about $650 on my current rig and its got a E6750 (266ghz core2duo), 4gb 800mhz ram, an 8600gt (the bottleneck of my system when it comes to gaming), a 500gb 7200rpm drive, and a 160gb 5400rpm drive. The benefit to having this over the iMac is:
1) price
2) its not made with laptop hardware crammed into a desktop model
3) i can choose what monitor i want, glossy or not
4) its easily upgradable, every single part of it. If i want to go to a quad core all i have to do is buy one and pop it in (and probably redo my cooling system, but thats understood)
5) price

Sure, if i wanted a machine i could work on i could just buy a mac pro, but i dont have a ton of money to spend on a computer, and even if i did it would be wasteful to blow a ton of money on something like the mac pro when i can get the same performance at a much more reasonable price.
 
Leopard runs on my Mom's 1Ghz PPC eMac, why wouldn't it run on a G5?

Leopard even runs great on my MDD 1.25 2GB RAM G4. The only thing it really lags on is video encoding, but I got an H264 from Elgato and it is very usable. While my Macbook and iMac smoke the G4 in benchmark tests due to their Core Duo processors, I just don't buy the argument that people go for Hackintosh because Apple doesn't make a product that suits them. If that's the case, do some research and buy an older model, e.g. one from a year or two ago that doesn't have matte screens or a used Mac Pro with AppleCare.
 
In less than two weeks. Cheaper hardware, not illegal, faster than a Mac Pro and half the price of one.

Yes, bring it on. Preferably with i7 support soon, when Gigabyte brings out their i7 motherboards.

I just don't buy the argument that people go for Hackintosh because Apple doesn't make a product that suits them. If that's the case, do some research and buy an older model, e.g. one from a year or two ago that doesn't have matte screens or a used Mac Pro with AppleCare.

Your solution is to spend money on accelerated obsoleteness, even if it doesn't meet the need? And just hope you can get a machine that works well and hasn't been abused or overheated? AppleCare is only 3 years. If you buy used, it is less, perhaps less than half of that. The specs are that much further away from upcoming software requirements. I don't need a Mac Pro's configuration specifications now, but I want something newer than a year old, or perhaps two, if given budget constraints. an obsolete Mac Pro, or PowerMac G5 is not a better solution for that situation, it is just a differently insufficient solution.

I don't mind the current iMac's specs, especially if they weren't hindered by space considerations, and could actually use desktop components... But Apple doesn't see it that way, at least right now. But I don't need or want ANY built in screen. In one setting, I want to use two matching monitors of my choice. In another setting, I want to use a 1080p high quality monitor for television and cinema viewing in a home theater central media server and library. And if Apple doesn't do it, why not step up to the new i7 desktop/workstation (commercial server-grade hardware not required) architecture, and have something even more current than Core 2 Duo?

If Apple refuses to sell the product that the market demands, I say it is fair game to build it one's self from parts. A legal retail version of Mac OS X being one of those parts, EFiX perhaps being another. I would not expect warranted support beyond the basic inherent operation of the specific part, in that case. Liable for replacing defective physical items, or obviously not meeting advertised capabilities, being the only real claims to be made on any vendor of any part, for a user-assembled system.

All Apple has to do is listen to it's customers, and release a mid-range headless computer with some moderate specs. Quad-core or i7, DDR3, with a great, or at least upgradeable video card, and replaceable internal hard drive(s), perhaps even 3.5"... Keep the digital audio, Firewire (1600-3200, even?), and add eSata.

MiniDisplayPort that is capable of driving two monitors on a desktop, or a single large screen monitor compatible with HD/BluRay content in Home Theater setups. (either via dual DVI adapter, or two MDP sockets).

Apple is very capable of creating an even better product than MacMini currently is, even if it requires a slight increase in size for true versatility.

Apple can do it. Apple can nip this in the bud. I would rather buy something official, and with a warranty, but if they don't, I don't owe them allegiance, and am capable of building something myself with products on the market to fill my role. A set of roles that many people seem to be clamoring for.

I am an Apple fan, but I am not blindly obedient to a corporation's business plan. Certainly not to the point of scrounging for their leftovers and table scraps from years past.
 
They've been available since last month and if you visit the "usual places" you'll find reports of people already running OS X on them...

Great, even better for the 'diy' community.

It has been a couple weeks since I have had the time to really get myself up to the minute from those usual places.
 
My views on running OS X on non Apple hardware has done a 180 recently. Apple has been creating limited products as of late.

I tell you what Psystar, put me done for a 12-13" notebook with 2.4G Core 2 Duo, 4G RAM, and most importantly a matte display.
 
Your solution is to spend money on accelerated obsoleteness, even if it doesn't meet the need? And just hope you can get a machine that works well and hasn't been abused or overheated? AppleCare is only 3 years. If you buy used, it is less, perhaps less than half of that.

In one setting, I want to use two matching monitors of my choice. In another setting, I want to use a 1080p high quality monitor for television and cinema viewing in a home theater central media server and library.

If Apple refuses to sell the product that the market demands, I say it is fair game to build it one's self from parts.

All Apple has to do is listen to it's customers, and release a mid-range headless computer with some moderate specs. Quad-core or i7, DDR3, with a great, or at least upgradeable video card, and replaceable internal hard drive(s), perhaps even 3.5"... Keep the digital audio, Firewire (1600-3200, even?), and add eSata.

I am an Apple fan, but I am not blindly obedient to a corporation's business plan. Certainly not to the point of scrounging for their leftovers and table scraps from years past.

Okay, I really enjoy these discussions on MacRumors, and I appreciate the fact that we can discuss hardware options for running Mac OS X.

While I am a die-hard Apple fan, self-made "genius" and more than average PC user and developer, I can only speak for myself and my computing requirements. For my work and personal use, Apple's hardware offerings are perfect although pricey, but I still buy Apple mostly because I like the quality of their hardware, don't want to fuss with Hackintosh updates, and would rather fuss with errors in coding :D

On the other hand, I think you and others make some strong points. While I've heard similar arguments before, I have to agree that : (1) why should you have to buy older hardware, (2) the only affordable headless Mac, a.k.a. mac mini doesn't offer support for 2 displays - what a joke although the hardware is capable of supporting it, (3) while Apple offers some decent hardware specs, to get to the newest or top of the line the consumer is forced to go Mac Pro otherwise the machine isn't upgradeable (video, esata, multiple hard drives) compared to pc tower offerings, (4) there really does seem to be a gap in market demand vs apple hardware offerings.

Here's THE PROBLEM: It's not legal, and in the environments I work in I'd probably get into a lot of trouble for using one of those machines. At home, fine, but at work, no way. I think the legality of hackintoshes keeps most people from going that route. Otherwise, I do agree with your points.
 
Maybe Psystar can make a laptop that doesn't suck. Small (unlike anything Apple offers), full featured, with a matte screen.

Apple apparently can't.
 
Yes, bring it on. Preferably with i7 support soon, when Gigabyte brings out their i7 motherboards.



Your solution is to spend money on accelerated obsoleteness, even if it doesn't meet the need? And just hope you can get a machine that works well and hasn't been abused or overheated? AppleCare is only 3 years. If you buy used, it is less, perhaps less than half of that. The specs are that much further away from upcoming software requirements. I don't need a Mac Pro's configuration specifications now, but I want something newer than a year old, or perhaps two, if given budget constraints. an obsolete Mac Pro, or PowerMac G5 is not a better solution for that situation, it is just a differently insufficient solution.

I don't mind the current iMac's specs, especially if they weren't hindered by space considerations, and could actually use desktop components... But Apple doesn't see it that way, at least right now. But I don't need or want ANY built in screen. In one setting, I want to use two matching monitors of my choice. In another setting, I want to use a 1080p high quality monitor for television and cinema viewing in a home theater central media server and library. And if Apple doesn't do it, why not step up to the new i7 desktop/workstation (commercial server-grade hardware not required) architecture, and have something even more current than Core 2 Duo?

If Apple refuses to sell the product that the market demands, I say it is fair game to build it one's self from parts. A legal retail version of Mac OS X being one of those parts, EFiX perhaps being another. I would not expect warranted support beyond the basic inherent operation of the specific part, in that case. Liable for replacing defective physical items, or obviously not meeting advertised capabilities, being the only real claims to be made on any vendor of any part, for a user-assembled system.

All Apple has to do is listen to it's customers, and release a mid-range headless computer with some moderate specs. Quad-core or i7, DDR3, with a great, or at least upgradeable video card, and replaceable internal hard drive(s), perhaps even 3.5"... Keep the digital audio, Firewire (1600-3200, even?), and add eSata.

MiniDisplayPort that is capable of driving two monitors on a desktop, or a single large screen monitor compatible with HD/BluRay content in Home Theater setups. (either via dual DVI adapter, or two MDP sockets).

Apple is very capable of creating an even better product than MacMini currently is, even if it requires a slight increase in size for true versatility.

Apple can do it. Apple can nip this in the bud. I would rather buy something official, and with a warranty, but if they don't, I don't owe them allegiance, and am capable of building something myself with products on the market to fill my role. A set of roles that many people seem to be clamoring for.

I am an Apple fan, but I am not blindly obedient to a corporation's business plan. Certainly not to the point of scrounging for their leftovers and table scraps from years past.
mini dp is big no for a desktop put full size with a full dp to mini dp shipping with the system.
 
No one talking about the validity of the DCMA here? I mean every time DCMA comes up as it relates to CSS or MP3s it's practically lambasted.

You could not be more wrong. I built my own hacintosh because i wanted something mid-range that i could actually upgrade when i see fit. I spend about $650 on my current rig and its got a E6750 (266ghz core2duo), 4gb 800mhz ram, an 8600gt (the bottleneck of my system when it comes to gaming), a 500gb 7200rpm drive, and a 160gb 5400rpm drive. The benefit to having this over the iMac is:
1) price
2) its not made with laptop hardware crammed into a desktop model
3) i can choose what monitor i want, glossy or not
4) its easily upgradable, every single part of it. If i want to go to a quad core all i have to do is buy one and pop it in (and probably redo my cooling system, but thats understood)
5) price

Sure, if i wanted a machine i could work on i could just buy a mac pro, but i dont have a ton of money to spend on a computer, and even if i did it would be wasteful to blow a ton of money on something like the mac pro when i can get the same performance at a much more reasonable price.
How does that work with updates?
 
No one talking about the validity of the DCMA here?
If you buy a copy of OS X it's yours. If you have the skill and tenacity and you want to install it on a machine you built yourself, I'd say that's fair use. It's yours. It's paid for. Do what you want with it. There are no OS cops out there to stop you.

Psystar is another issue because they are selling complete systems. If it's all bought and paid for and not marketed as an Apple Macintosh, well, I'd say sure.
 
If you buy a copy of OS X it's yours. If you have the skill and tenacity and you want to install it on a machine you built yourself, I'd say that's fair use. It's yours. It's paid for. Do what you want with it. There are no OS cops out there to stop you.

Psystar is another issue because they are selling complete systems. If it's all bought and paid for and not marketed as an Apple Macintosh, well, I'd say sure.
So then the end around would be for Psystar to sell OS X and a beige box then ship them both to consumer to install on their own? Would it then be reasonable to charge an installation fee?
 
They're still selling them on there site.

The lawsuit hasn't prevented Psystar from continuing to sell their desktop Mac clone...
They're still selling them on there site.
 
How does that work with updates?

Fantastic.. I actually ran 10.5.5 from Software Update just like you would have. The only difference, I had to start a quick shell script first to prevent the hosing of my legally purchased operating system.

Double click script, Install, reboot, enjoy. Just that simple.
 
Sorry, but that's completely untrue. Would you like me to make a list? How about the most obvious one that's staring you in the face right this second - the glossy screen. You and many others may prefer a glossy screen, but there are TONS of people out there that can't stand them. And before anyone tries to dismiss this argument, dislike of glossy screens is NOT just limited to visual industry professionals. (and not that that would be a legitimate dismissal anyway, but that doesn't stop a lot of pro-glossy people from saying it.) I do not work in a visual industry job, but a glossy screen is an absolute deal breaker for me. And I am far, far, far from alone on this. If you prefer a glossy screen, there's nothing wrong with that and the current generation Apple hardware may be great for you, but there are LOTS of us out there that glossy screens are a deal breaker for.

Your argument amounts to naught when you purchase a Mac Pro or Mac mini with the original Cinema Display.

Besides, citing YOUR personal dislike for a technology (glossy screens) is not a valid argument against purchasing a Mac.
 
Fantastic.. I actually ran 10.5.5 from Software Update just like you would have. The only difference, I had to start a quick shell script first to prevent the hosing of my legally purchased operating system.

Double click script, Install, reboot, enjoy. Just that simple.

You bought a copy of the OS but you are still running it illegally. End of discussion.
 
You bought a copy of the OS but you are still running it illegally. End of discussion.

Hate to say it, but the MS Windows argument comes into play here. If you bought a copy of Windows, it is your legally licensed copy. If you install it on a machine you built, you're free to do so. If that box crashes, or you decide to rebuild it, you install it again, you're free to do so. It is your copy, you bought it.

Same could apply to OS X, and that would pretty much hold up in court. Just as if you bought it OEM.

BL.
 
No one talking about the validity of the DCMA here? I mean every time DCMA comes up as it relates to CSS or MP3s it's practically lambasted.

Why do that when we can start yet another pointless "mid-range tower Mac" debate?

I'm no fan of the DCMA but I was surprised that Apple didn't whack Psystar with DCMA violation charge in their first filing.

Hate to say it, but the MS Windows argument comes into play here.

No, it doesn't, because Apple does not license OSX to OEMs.
 
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