Psystar Working on Mac Laptop Clone, Apple Files DMCA Charges

[137489]

Torn between two Lovers...

Ok, could not resist.... but it is the same old song...

Part of me says, I would not buy a non-true apple because of the end-to-end that works so well.

Another part of me says, price is a factor, and if I want something cusomized (like a Gigabyte M912 with OSX) then why could I not do this for myself.

Gigabyte's M912X is a great portable hybrid. It has the functions of a tablet PC, the power of a UMPC, yet it is priced at just a little bit above a top-end MID. it's an impressive combination.

People have already installed OS X on this little thing.

I can see why Apple is suing pystar, but I think we should have a choice if we want it on a customized machine. I mean MS went the route of selling the OS, and then you have to pay for support. why not apple? You install OS X on a machine that is not an Apple, either you don't get support - or you pay.

But because Apple does not license OSX to other distributors (except maybe axiotron), I can see Pystar being sued. But I think we need to let consumers build their own machines, if they are not selling them.

Not everyone would want to build their own, except maybe techno geeks on this forum.

 

[rhpenguin]

You bought a copy of the OS but you are still running it illegally. End of discussion.

Yes, but look at this from my point of view.

I bought an iBook. I had to have seven logic board replacements in two years before it was finally stolen. I also bought a PowerMac which needed three logic board replacements in six months.After that I said no more Apple. Which is a shame because I liked their OS. So, when the switch to Intel happened I got the opportunity to start building my own boxes again. If you had the same issues with Apple that I've had, would you buy another one of their computers?

I can happily say I wont. I can also say that most of this machine has been running strong for two years. I've been able to upgrade my motherboard and GPU without buying a completely new machine. And the working pulls from this machine have built my second Hacintosh that sits on my TV.

 

[IJ Reilly]

I can see why Apple is suing pystar, but I think we should have a choice if we want it on a customized machine. I mean MS went the route of selling the OS, and then you have to pay for support. why not apple? You install OS X on a machine that is not an Apple, either you don't get support - or you pay.

Because Microsoft has no computer hardware business. You can bet that if they started out manufacturing PCs, they would not be in the business of creating competitors for themselves. In fact that concept is so radical, I have to wonder why so many people seem to think it's a sound idea.

 

[hiptobesquare]

mini dp is big no for a desktop put full size with a full dp to mini dp shipping with the system.

Yeah, normally, I would agree...

But if the pins are compatible, does it really matter? As far as anyone has been able to explain, the same 20 or so pins are present in both connectors, and the data scheme is the exact same.

So, whether you adapt DP to miniDP, or vice versa... I figured since Cinema Display is going with a mini plug, they would probably keep it consistent on the computers, and offer adapters for other monitors with full-size DP, or DVI, perhaps even HDMI for those who really want it.

Mostly what I care about, is that it can run TWO monitors of the same type, at the same time. For an office desktop that doesn't need to be a server, that is not too much to ask, and lining up an LCD cinema display next to an iMac is not an ideal match, and some people work on budget monitors, others like high end color calibrated monitors. Options can be good things.

 

[skellener]

You install OS X on a machine that is not an Apple, either you don't get support - or you pay.

Absolutely not. That will never fly. You install OS X on a machine that is not an Apple, you don't get support. Period. There is no other option. Apple is NOT going to help you whether you pay or not.

 

[gnasher729]

I'm no fan of the DCMA but I was surprised that Apple didn't whack Psystar with DCMA violation charge in their first filing.

I can tell you why. The DMCA act makes it illegal to circumvent effective copyright protection measures. I don't know about any effective copyright protection measures in Leopard, and it looks like Apple's lawyers didn't either, so they couldn't sue for DMCA violation.

In comes Psystar's counterclaims, claiming that Apple is a monopoly. Hidden in those counterclaims is the accusation that Apple added code to its operating system that makes it crash on non-Apple computers (apparently to support Apple's non-existing evil monopoly). In other words, Psystar itself _claims_ that Leopard contains effective copyright protection measures. All that Apple has to do is to agree with Psystar, and those "effective copyright protection measures" become reality, at least as far as the court is concerned. Anything that Psystar says in their court filings can be used against them, and that is exactly what Apple has done again.

 

[ppc750fx]

I bought an iBook. I had to have seven logic board replacements in two years before it was finally stolen. I also bought a PowerMac which needed three logic board replacements in six months.After that I said no more Apple. Which is a shame because I liked their OS.

I bought an iBook G3. It had one replacement board. I bought a PowerMac G4. It still works great with original hardware (upgraded hard drives though.) I bought a PowerBook G4 12". It never needed any replacement parts. I bought a MacBook Pro and a MacBook. They've worked great with no replacement parts.

I'm moving away from Apple now (I prefer a more conventional *nix, like Slackware), but I like their OS.

What does this all mean? Absolutely nothing. I just figured I should add another anecdotal data point.

 

[Joe The Dragon]

Yeah, normally, I would agree...

But if the pins are compatible, does it really matter? As far as anyone has been able to explain, the same 20 or so pins are present in both connectors, and the data scheme is the exact same.

So, whether you adapt DP to miniDP, or vice versa... I figured since Cinema Display is going with a mini plug, they would probably keep it consistent on the computers, and offer adapters for other monitors with full-size DP, or DVI, perhaps even HDMI for those who really want it.

Mostly what I care about, is that it can run TWO monitors of the same type, at the same time. For an office desktop that doesn't need to be a server, that is not too much to ask, and lining up an LCD cinema display next to an iMac is not an ideal match, and some people work on budget monitors, others like high end color calibrated monitors. Options can be good things.

But Video card makes are unlikely to go the a mini port of a full size card and full size to mini is better.

And a desktop with a mini port and no adapters shipping with the system is a big joke.

 

[PVguy]

Still on tiger.

"So the computer is stuck using Leopard... for $500, who cares?"

Not I. I'm still running Tiger on my 2002 Quicksilver. Leopard had and has nothing of interest.

Since any computer hardware without an expansion slot will be a 'frisbee into the dumpster' candidate about 6 months after USB 3 ships, this limits my possible Apple hardware selection to two models, the MacBook Pro, and the Mac Pro. I don't want a laptop. And the Mac Pro is overkill on price, performance, and power consumption grounds. I'd have to plug it into the air conditioner outlet.

Especially since a Dell that sits right between an iMac and the Pro in performance is a whole $650 with Ubuntu preloaded. And since I'm probably switching to Open Office, and don't use 2/3 of iLife, why pay an Apple Tax at all?

I'm waiting for Nehalem and Snow Leopard. If I don't see decent hardware (my specs, not Steve's) for a fair price (my wallet, not Steve's, and I am willing to pay some premium) then I'm out of here. And since my first Mac was an SE/30 in 1989, that's saying something.

 

[rockosmodurnlif]

I can tell you why. The DMCA act makes it illegal to circumvent effective copyright protection measures. I don't know about any effective copyright protection measures in Leopard, and it looks like Apple's lawyers didn't either, so they couldn't sue for DMCA violation.

In comes Psystar's counterclaims, claiming that Apple is a monopoly. Hidden in those counterclaims is the accusation that Apple added code to its operating system that makes it crash on non-Apple computers (apparently to support Apple's non-existing evil monopoly). In other words, Psystar itself _claims_ that Leopard contains effective copyright protection measures. All that Apple has to do is to agree with Psystar, and those "effective copyright protection measures" become reality, at least as far as the court is concerned. Anything that Psystar says in their court filings can be used against them, and that is exactly what Apple has done again.

But didn't the judge dismiss the countersuit? Or does that not matter?

 

[efixusa]

EFiX

We will release a machine within two weeks.

4Ghz, 4 cores, 4GB of RAM, dual SuperDrive, 150GB Raptor boot drive, 1TB Samsung data drive, 8800GTS video card.

GeekBench scored the same as a dual 3.2 Mac Pro. All for $1899.99 with 1 year warranty. EFiX Card sold separately.
Able to run OS X, Windows and Linux on the same unit, not a hackintosh, runs standard Apple System Updates.

Mac OS X, NOT included or installed. The user would have to breach the EULA themselves to run the Mac OS.

 

[rhpenguin]

I bought an iBook G3. It had one replacement board. I bought a PowerMac G4. It still works great with original hardware (upgraded hard drives though.) I bought a PowerBook G4 12". It never needed any replacement parts. I bought a MacBook Pro and a MacBook. They've worked great with no replacement parts.

I'm moving away from Apple now (I prefer a more conventional *nix, like Slackware), but I like their OS.

What does this all mean? Absolutely nothing. I just figured I should add another anecdotal data point.

Everyone's mileage varies. You get good mileage, I got piss poor mileage. However, I can't say the same for my homebrew machine. What does this mean? It means my homebrew running OS X outlasted both of my Apple computers. Again, YMMV.

 

[Beric]

We will release a machine within two weeks.

4Ghz, 4 cores, 4GB of RAM, dual SuperDrive, 150GB Raptor boot drive, 1TB Samsung data drive, 8800GTS video card.

GeekBench scored the same as a dual 3.2 Mac Pro. All for $1899.99 with 1 year warranty. EFiX Card sold separately.
Able to run OS X, Windows and Linux on the same unit, not a hackintosh, runs standard Apple System Updates.

Mac OS X, NOT included or installed. The user would have to breach the EULA themselves to run the Mac OS.

Nice!

Out of curiosity, do you guys ever intend to make EFIX compatible with certain laptops? I'd like to buy a gaming laptop, but also be able to run OS X on it for work-related projects. Unfortunately, Apple does not make a gaming laptop, and yet I do not wish to have to buy two separate computers in order to run both OS's.

 

[Joe The Dragon]

We will release a machine within two weeks.

4Ghz, 4 cores, 4GB of RAM, dual SuperDrive, 150GB Raptor boot drive, 1TB Samsung data drive, 8800GTS video card.

GeekBench scored the same as a dual 3.2 Mac Pro. All for $1899.99 with 1 year warranty. EFiX Card sold separately.
Able to run OS X, Windows and Linux on the same unit, not a hackintosh, runs standard Apple System Updates.

Mac OS X, NOT included or installed. The user would have to breach the EULA themselves to run the Mac OS.

Price is higher then the mac pro after the cost of the efix and mac os x also and 8800gts is out place next to the other hardware the 9800 is the same card new name why not use a newer ati card or nvidia?

Drop the Raptor and put in a lower cost cpu also drop down to a 500gb hd.

 

[efixusa]

EFiX USA

There will be no EFiX ExpressCard. It is certainly doable, but Apple's domain is the laptop market. There are plenty of desktops to conquer.

 

[efixusa]

Price is higher then the mac pro after the cost of the efix and mac os x also and 8800gts is out place next to the other hardware the 9800 is the same card new name why not use a newer ati card or nvidia?

Drop the Raptor and put in a lower cost cpu also drop down to a 500gb hd.

We can config it anyway you want. Take out the Raptor and go with a 750GB drive and a cheaper CPU, sure, that's easy. We believe we will have a $1299 config with a quad core 3.2.

 

[w0ngbr4d]

Concerning the DMCA claim...consider DVDs. You bought the DVD, you bought the right to watch it, fair use gives you the right for an archival copy, but it is still against the DMCA for you to make a copy of it because you have to break the CSS to do so.

Same with Leopard. You buy Leopard, you have the right to run it on an Apple branded machine based on the EULA you agreed to, but its against the DMCA to run on non Apple hardware because you are modifying the code to do so (not sure if this is the case for all OSx86 installs or not, I haven't built a hack.)

Will an individual be prosecuted for doing these things? Probably not. But a company profiting off of doing so, you bet they will.

Concerning the mid range tower. Look at Apple's sales. I don't think they are hurting. A very small portion of people are looking for this mid range tower. Apple is run by very talented and intelligent people. I'm sure their marketing department can tell if demand is high enough for them to produce a mid range tower. If they see a market, they'll produce the machine. (Sorry, saying that since everyone here on MacRumors wants a mid range tower is enough evidence to show demand won't work. They would need to sell quite a few of these to make it profitable.)

Its a simple choice. Vote with your wallet. If Apple doesn't offer the hardware you want, don't buy it. If you still want OS X, and your moral compass allows it, buy a copy and install it on your non Apple machine. But good luck convincing everyone else to do the same so you can get a mid range Apple tower.

 

[efixusa]

Price is higher then the mac pro after the cost of the efix and mac os x also and 8800gts is out place next to the other hardware the 9800 is the same card new name why not use a newer ati card or nvidia?

Drop the Raptor and put in a lower cost cpu also drop down to a 500gb hd.

I confirmed it, 3.2 Quad Core with 4GB of RAM and a 1TB hard drive for $1299.99 (Apple's $1999 Mac Pro is a 2.8 with 2GB and a 320GB)

Let me know if you are serious and I will get you the first one off the line. The video card in the $1299 version is an Nvidia 7300GT 512MB. EFiX sold separately.

 

[organerito]

Ditto here. The build quality of Macs is as best as ever...what a wonderful machine.

Wonderful screen and faster, more stable, more integrated, more silent, more beautiful and more compatible than any PC on Earth. Not to mention zero viruses and the most advanced OS ever.

There is simply no reason not to buy Macs nowadays...even if it's for running Crappindows.

Perhaps you should read this.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-10110852-83.html?tag=TOCmoreStories.0

 

[Joe The Dragon]

I confirmed it, 3.2 Quad Core with 4GB of RAM and a 1TB hard drive for $1299.99 (Apple's $1999 Mac Pro is a 2.8 with 2GB and a 320GB)

Let me know if you are serious and I will get you the first one off the line. The video card in the $1299 version is an Nvidia 7300GT 512MB. EFiX sold separately.

7300 is way to weak for a $1200 system when the 8500 / 8600 cost the same and ati 3650 / 2600 cards are $50.

a $1200 system with no os should have at least a $70 $100 card like the 4670 / 4650 or a 9800gt.

I Can build my own system as well so I don't need a per build system.

For $1200 you should be able to get a corei7 system or a Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 system. Drop the cpu speed a bit and bump up the video card.

 

[ProwlingTiger]

Honestly, I'm siding with Apple here. And I can see why Apple needs to win. Legally, I believe they have every right to tie their OS to their equipment.

WHO IS FUNDING PYSTAR'S LAWYER TEAM?! I mean, I dont know much about the company, but to stand up to Apple like this...and then spit in their face with a notebook. This company deserves a handshake for bravery and handcuffs for breaking the law.

 

[albusseverus]

Honestly, I'm siding with Apple here. And I can see why Apple needs to win. Legally, I believe they have every right to tie their OS to their equipment.

WHO IS FUNDING PYSTAR'S LAWYER TEAM?! I mean, I dont know much about the company, but to stand up to Apple like this...and then spit in their face with a notebook. This company deserves a handshake for bravery and handcuffs for breaking the law.

Top of the list - Psystar has never broken the law. Apple changes their entire product line to PC compatibles and sells OS X on them... it was only a matter of time.

There is no difference between DRM purveyors dictating what hardware the software you paid for can run on and Apple dictating what hardware you can run OS X on. Apple does it by EULA, not by copy protection (clearly). Everyone agrees DRM is 'wrong'... you figure out the rest.

Psystar has never defeated copy protection devices, the DMCA is completely irrelevant here. This late addition to the charge is an act of desperation, as Apple knows, they can't win and their EULA will be invalidated.

And only a complete Mapple fan-boy could believe that Apple would begin manufacturing cheap Macs, once Psystar was sent broke -which is the only way Apple could defeat Psystar, because Apple cannot "win" the case any other way.

 

[Trip.Tucker]

Top of the list - Psystar has never broken the law. Apple changes their entire product line to PC compatibles and sells OS X on them... it was only a matter of time.

There is no difference between DRM purveyors dictating what hardware the software you paid for can run on and Apple dictating what hardware you can run OS X on. Apple does it by EULA, not by copy protection (clearly). Everyone agrees DRM is 'wrong'... you figure out the rest.

Psystar has never defeated copy protection devices, the DMCA is completely irrelevant here. This late addition to the charge is an act of desperation, as Apple knows, they can't win and their EULA will be invalidated.

And only a complete Mapple fan-boy could believe that Apple would begin manufacturing cheap Macs, once Psystar was sent broke -which is the only way Apple could defeat Psystar, because Apple cannot "win" the case any other way.

Mapple? Are you confused?

 

[Sun Baked]

Mapple? Are you confused?

They will be really confused if Psystar cannot pull a head out of their ass, and get their counter claim fixed before it is tossed.

 

[fr33 loader]

So if tomorrow MS decides to enter the hardware business and changes its EULA saying Windows can now only run in their own hardware, will that constitute being a monopoly? Can we say its the same thing with Apple practice right now?