Punishments Handed Down in Italian Match Fixing Scandal

[FleurDuMal]

I hadn't even thought of this, but is there not every chance that Juve could now suffer a subsequent relegation? I don't know what the division below Serie B is in Italy (logic would have it, Serie C), but given that the two teams that played off for the last relegation place in 2005/2006 were on 46 points, that would mean Juve would need to find 76 points.

So basically, if they want to survive next year, they would need promotion form throughout the season (which sounds strange enough). I think that is ridiculous and far too harsh. Given that it wont be easy for Juve next year, with all the controversy surrounding them, the poor morale, and the exodus of players, I imagine that even if they'd started on 0 points, they still wouldn't secure promotion. The Italian Federation has effectively sent them down two divisions, which is OTT in my opinion. I think making it so that it was unlikely they'd go straight back up (by deducting, say, 10/15 points) is more rational, and certainly enough punishment to act as a deterrent to others.

 

[Jaffa Cake]

I hadn't even thought of this, but is there not every chance that Juve could now suffer a subsequent relegation? I don't know what the division below Serie B is in Italy (logic would have it, Serie C), but given that the two teams that played off for the last relegation place in 2005/2006 were on 46 points, that would mean Juve would need to find 76 points.

That's right. As I mentioned earlier, there is a real possibility that Juve could go down next season given the big points deficit they have to make up.

If they do get relegated, it would indeed be to one of the Serie C1 leagues – basically C is divided up into C1 (third division) and C2 (fourth division), which in turn are divided up into regional leagues (C1/A and C1/B, and C2/A, C2/B and C2/C). It's rather like the old 'Third Division North' and 'Third Division South' we used to have here in England, where clubs at the lower tiers of the league were sorted into leagues geographically. There's a similar system in place in the Football Conference now, where the second tier of non-league football is divided into North and South leagues.

 

[Applespider]

They've said they will be appealing the ruling. Perhaps the points differential will be reduced slightly as a sop during the appeal?

 

[Jaffa Cake]

They've said they will be appealing the ruling. Perhaps the points differential will be reduced slightly as a sop during the appeal?

I wouldn't be surprised if the punishments were reduced in some way – reducing the points deduction seems the most likely possibility.

In any case, the appeals need to be sorted quickly – they've got about a week and a half until Italy's European competitors have to be finalised with UEFA. If they've not appealed successfully by then, they definitely aren't getting entered into Europe next season – simple as that.

 

[Queso]

They've said they will be appealing the ruling. Perhaps the points differential will be reduced slightly as a sop during the appeal?

It shouldn't be though. From what I've read they were the ones instigating the fixing. If they can retain their star players, they'll survive easily. If they can't, down they go.

They'll climb back up sooner or later though. A club with that amount of support always does. Look at Man City for an example.

 

[FleurDuMal]

Look at Man City for an example.

A few humiliating defeats to local minnows in the process, though. Of which I was present at all

 

[Queso]

A few humiliating defeats to local minnows in the process, though. Of which I was present at all

Now THAT was a great day. Sadly I wasn't there, but what a result

 

[ham_man]

Are you serious?

at least two seasons in serie b, losing all its best players, at least 3 season out of europe.... how is that not ruining a club?

Its gonna take a while for them to rebuild, but it is possible. They got what they deserved. The Italian soccer federation had to send a message, and they did.

 

[FleurDuMal]

Now THAT was a great day. Sadly I wasn't there, but what a result

Which one? We had many glorious victories over 'the small club near Stockport'.

Beating them 2-1 away after being 1-0 down was my personal favourite, where Nicky Weaver (what on earth happened to 'England's Next Goalkeeper' anyway?!) tried to take on our forward in the last ten minutes and ended up giving away a penalty.

Oh, and the season we went down from Division One and City went up to the Premiership, when we beat them 2-1 at EP. We were rooted to the bottom of the league and were pretty much already down and hadn't won for about 15 games. I've never sang "We are bottom of the league" with such pride and glee .

Then there was the 3-1 thrashing at EP in our first season in Division One. The sound of 11,000 shouting "Who the ****ing hell are you" to the fat Georgian bloke was music to my ears (I was surrounded by City fans at school who thought he was the best midfielder in England ).

Oh happy days. Hereford away, anyone?

One for your desktop:

 

[BakedBeans]

Its gonna take a while for them to rebuild, but it is possible. They got what they deserved. The Italian soccer federation had to send a message, and they did.

Italian soccer federation? what's that?

Anyway, that's not the point. The point is that you said it hasn't ruined the club, it quite obviously has, that was the point I was making.

They have gone from a club that was winning nearly everything, to a club with no players, no money, no points (well, -30) they are ruined. Wether that is acceptable or not is debatable and is solely down to how you see it. I think it is harsh.

 

[Jaffa Cake]

...Nicky Weaver (what on earth happened to 'England's Next Goalkeeper' anyway?!)

He was last seen on loan at Sheffield Wednesday, the poor sod.

 

[Applespider]

It shouldn't be though. From what I've read they were the ones instigating the fixing. If they can retain their star players, they'll survive easily. If they can't, down they go.

I'm not defending Juve but I think putting them in a position where they're almost destined to fall to Serie C would be bad for the game in the long run.
I'm guessing any appeal will leave all the teams where they are with the Euro bans in place, Milan will still have points deducted in Serie A, Lazio and Fiorentino will end up in B with no deductions, and Juve's points deduction will go reduced to 25 or so which should leave them firmly midtable in Serie B so that their punishment is worthwhile.

 

[ham_man]

Italian soccer federation? what's that?

Anyway, that's not the point. The point is that you said it hasn't ruined the club, it quite obviously has, that was the point I was making.

They have gone from a club that was winning nearly everything, to a club with no players, no money, no points (well, -30) they are ruined. Wether that is acceptable or not is debatable and is solely down to how you see it. I think it is harsh.

What did you want them to do? Pat them on the head and ask them nicely to never do that again?

 

[Queso]

Then there was the 3-1 thrashing at EP in our first season in Division One. The sound of 11,000 shouting "Who the ****ing hell are you" to the fat Georgian bloke was music to my ears (I was surrounded by City fans at school who thought he was the best midfielder in England ).

That's the one I was referring to. I had that pic of the scoreboard as my computer desktop for months afterwards. All those despondent City fans at the Railway End. Ahahahaha.

 

[Atlasland]

They have gone from a club that was winning nearly everything, to a club with no players, no money, no points (well, -30) they are ruined.

I couldn't help but laugh my f***ing arse off at that one!

Yep, you're absolutely right, they were winning nearly everything.

Do you know why they were winning nearly everything? ...





... Because they were cheating!





Using the fact that "they were winning nearly everything" as part of your argument doesn't make much sense in this scenario, now does it?

 

[BakedBeans]

What did you want them to do? Pat them on the head and ask them nicely to never do that again?

No, but thanks for the sarcasm. I think it harsh of them, I didn't say they deserved no punishment at all.

 

[BakedBeans]

I couldn't help but laugh my f***ing arse off at that one!

Yep, you're absolutely right, they were winning nearly everything.

Do you know why they were winning nearly everything? ...





... Because they were cheating!





Using the fact that "they were winning nearly everything" as part of your argument doesn't make much sense in this scenario, now does it?

Know much about the history of football do you?

^look, it isn' hard to be a condescending so 'n' so is it?^

They have been a very successful club throughout history, not just the last couple of years.

 

[dextertangocci]

Sorry, but would someone mind telling me what all this is about? Thanks!

 

[Queso]

Sorry, but would someone mind telling me what all this is about? Thanks!

Basically the top four clubs in the Italian football league got caught cheating. Between them and some corrupt referees they were match fixing. There's been an investigation for the past few months and the verdict was released this week. All four clubs have been punished to various extents, explained in post #1.

 

[FleurDuMal]

I couldn't help but laugh my f***ing arse off at that one!

Yep, you're absolutely right, they were winning nearly everything.

Do you know why they were winning nearly everything? ...





... Because they were cheating!





Using the fact that "they were winning nearly everything" as part of your argument doesn't make much sense in this scenario, now does it?

And what about everything they won before the match fixing? They've been a succesful club for many, many decades now.

 

[dextertangocci]

Basically the top four clubs in the Italian football league got caught cheating. Between them and some corrupt referees they were match fixing. There's been an investigation for the past few months and the verdict was released this week. All four clubs have been punished to various extents, explained in post #1.

BTW, what does this mean?

Demoted to Serie B

-7 points deducted from next season's total

 

[Applespider]

Serie A is the top league in Italy.

Serie B is the second division.

Instead of the normal relegation of teams, three teams have been 'relegated'/demoted.

The deficit means that at the start of next season when the teams usually start afresh with 0 points, they'll have a negative balance to overcome as a handicap

 

[Jaffa Cake]

BTW, what does this mean?

Demoted to Serie B

Serie A is Italy's top league (and the league the teams involved currently play in). Next season three of the four teams involved will have to play in Serie B, the league below.

-7 points deducted from next season's total

It means literally they're going to have points deducted which will affect their league position – you get three for a win, one for a draw. Basically it's going to handicap the teams involved and make it harder for them to win promotion back to Serie A next season – and in the case of Juventus, who have a whopping 30 point deduction, it'll make it hard for them to avoid being relegated even further down the league system, to Serie B.

 

[Queso]

BTW, what does this mean?

Demoted to Serie B

-7 points deducted from next season's total

OK, Italian football's top league is Serie A, the next one down is Serie B, then you have multiple serie Cs divided by geography. Only Serie A sides ever compete internationally, where there are millions of pounds (or billions of rand ) at stake for every match. These four clubs have been punished by taking them out of the Italian top flight and have been moved a league lower. Therefore they will lose millions in lost TV revenue, and cannot realistically qualify for international competition for at least another two season, further punishing their finances.

The minus points thing means they start next season with a penalty. As their current teams are made up of Serie A standard players, without this it would be likely they would dominate the lower league and immediately earn promotion. The penalty acts as a handicap to ensure that other Serie B teams still have the same chance of promotion they would otherwise get.

EDIT: Last of the responses. Blame the mojitos

 

[XIII]

And what about everything they won before the match fixing? They've been a succesful club for many, many decades now.

It's very possible they just haven't been caught match fixing until now.. God knows how long its been going on.