Purchased a G5 with no hard drive

[Mengele]

You have now said multiple times that settings must be changed in Open Firmware, but haven't said what to do.

Are you capable of using google? Even the very basic search of "powerpc boot usb" brings up the necessary steps in the. Very. First. Result.

http://hints.macworld.com/article.php?story=20060301112336384
Boot PowerPC Macs via USB 2.0 drives System
Mar 07, '06 06:23:00AM • Contributed by: CHerbold

...


You need a USB2 drive with an OS X system installed (I am using 10.4.3, though any I think will work as far as what the machine can boot). As you know, there are many different ways of getting a system on a USB drive; contact me if you have any questions on how to do that, or search macosxhints.com for that information.

Connect the drive to your machine, and find out which partition the OS X system is installed on. I usually find this by going to Disk Utility and looking at the info for the partition on the USB disk with OS X. That is, disk2s3 is usually for a USB disk with no OS 9 drivers installed that is the second disk disk. disk3s9 might be a USB disk with OS 9 drivers that is considered the third disk. There are other ways of finding this out, but in my case, my disk is disk2s3 (the 3 on the end will come into play soon).

Start up the machine in Open Firmware (this is the fun part). Hold Command-Option-F-F right after the machine is turned on.

Here is the moment of truth. If this step does not work, I have had very limited success getting a machine to boot off USB2. In Open Firmware, type devalias, and you should get a list as output. In this list, look for ud, usually below where you see hd (ud is "USB Disk," I presume). If found, it will usually have beside it /pci@f2000000/usb@1/disk1, or something similar. Again, if you see this, I have not had this fail yet.

Now type printenv boot-device, which will usually get you output of boot-device hd:,\\:tbxi. (See where this is going yet?)

Type setenv boot-device ud:3,\\:tbxi where the number after the colon corresponds to that partition number we found in step two. You should get an ok back.

Type printenv boot-device, and you should see the change displayed already. Something like:

boot-device ud:3,\\:tbxi hd:,\\:tbxi"

Type mac-boot and cross your fingers.

And now some more fun, there is a Unix script that can be written to enable this, because after all we are only changing a nvram variable. The command would be similar to this:

nvram boot-device ud:3,\\\\:tbxi

Now this looks a tad bit different then what we typed in Open Firmware, but that's because we have to escape the two backslashes, each with a backslash of its own.

If this fails, there is a remote possibility that you can still boot off of USB2, but you may need to substitute ud for /pci@f2000000/usb@1/disk1, or something similar. If the firmware cannot list the contents of the drive, it seems it cannot boot off of it.

As you should know (thanks to the owner of the iMac G5 w/iSight for letting me know I should mention this), USB2 booting is not supported, therefore you should remember OS X has no support for booting USB 2 and the firmware has no support. So in System Preferences, the USB disk will not be shown as a bootable drive. In the optional boot menu (reached by holding down the Option key during boot), it also will not show.

So the two ways that I know how to enable it are through terminal by using the nvram command, and directly in Open Firmware. Hope this hint helps someone out there. I figured my trick was shot as soon as the Duo Core machines came out, but I now realize there are quite a few people with PPC Macs that might be able to use this hint.

 

[GermanyChris]

So this is the quarterly can PowerPC boot from USB debate.

C'mon everyone show us how smart you are

 

[Lancer]

Wait I've always been told USB is not bootable with PPC, thus the reason I spent extra on a FireWire IceCube backup HDD for my G5. And did similar for my moms old iBook G4 and didn't go out and buy a cheap USB drive.

Thanks for the 'new' info.

I do know you have to format the HDD correctly to make it bootable regardless of the interface.

 

[jbarley]

Just a little more fuel to keep this fire burning, here is a thread about USB booting, and according to at least one poster on this forum they must all be liars like those of us here who also claim to be able to boot from USB.

Is it just me, or has a big chunk of this thread gone missing?
In particular, a long rant from Intell.

 

[Zeke D]

I just booted my sawtooth to tiger off of a PNY 8gb thumb drive first with an IDE drive by holding down option and selecting the USB dive, then by unplugging the IDE drive and just starting up. It was slow a heck, but it worked just fine.

 

[jbarley]

I just booted my sawtooth to tiger off of a PNY 8gb thumb drive first with an IDE drive by holding down option and selecting the USB dive, then by unplugging the IDE drive and just starting up. It was slow a heck, but it worked just fine.

Yaaa! Score one more for our side

 

[jbarley]

This one's for you-know-who.

Are you smarter then a 5th, (actually 4th) grader?
--------------------------------------------------------
under my supervision my 4th grade great granddaughter sat down to my dual 1.8 G5 powermac and did the following...
1- partitioned and formatted a 16GB sandisk USB pen drive using the APM system
2- using SuperDuper, cloned my Leopard install DVD to this USB pen drive
3- removed the install DVD and restarted while pressing the Alt key then selected the now available pen drive to boot from
4- gave me a big hug when the Leopard system install successfully booted from said pen drive

all of the above was done without neither of us going anywhere near "open firmware"

Just as an afterthought, is it possible that some previous owner has made the necessary changes to open firmware?
In other words, once made are these changes permanent?

 

[Intell]

I discovered why it can be done most of the time and rarely not. The bootx file in CoreServices needs to be set for the machine you're trying to boot it on via USB. Most PPC Macs share the same charaicteristics to allow it. But there are a few odd balls that don't quite see it is correct. For it to be almost 100% sure to be able to boot on your machine via USB by choosing the drive by using the boot menu or Startup Disk pref pane, one must clone their drive. After selecting their internal drive with Startup Disk manager. This correctly sets the correct blesses the bootx file for your machine. In fact if you leave the disk plugged in and immediately restart the Mac, it will boot from the USB device all by itself. In theory one could simply use the bless command to properly bless the external bootx file as well to make it visible to the boot menu and the Startup Disk pref pane. Interestingly enough, the bootx on Tiger and Leopard discs is already correctly blessed for most, if not all, Macs. There you have it. Native USB boot on PowerPC Macs equipped with a dual channel USB chipset.

 

[Zeke D]

Just as an afterthought, is it possible that some previous owner has made the necessary changes to open firmware?
In other words, once made are these changes permanent?

I know it was not the issue with mine, as part of the install process I reset nv and pram, thus deleting any scripts saved to nvram. The guy is just trolling. I reported his flagrant posts yesterday, but they are still here, yet I call a troll a troll and I get a PM from a moderator. This was one of the reasons I left mac-forums.

 

[Nameci]

He proved nothing since we all experience that booting from USB works. He can troll all he want and live with in his delusion but the truth is the truth.

USB booting is how I install Leopard on most of my powermacs, I have a cloned Leopard install on multiple flash drives. That keeps my install disk to be in shape.

 

[buddybd]

I installed Leopard on a G4 like 2 weeks ago through USB. So no reason why it shouldn't work on the G5.

All I did was prepare the USB properly and hold the Option button after restarting. It asked me to choose which device I want to boot it from, the USB was an option and I proceeded as normal.

 

[LeoTheLion89]

Wait I've always been told USB is not bootable with PPC, thus the reason I spent extra on a FireWire IceCube backup HDD for my G5. And did similar for my moms old iBook G4 and didn't go out and buy a cheap USB drive.

Thanks for the 'new' info.

I do know you have to format the HDD correctly to make it bootable regardless of the interface.

so was i but ever mac since last model G3s have been USB bootable

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post deleted

untrue you cannot set it as a startup disk within OS X but holding the Option key you CAN boot USB drives just fine i used a USB HDD to install Leopard on my eMac

EDIT: everyone on macosx.com told me that its not bootable by USB and when i posted a picture with PROOF it worked they made some excuse as to why it did. even with proof right in front of em they continued to deny PPCs are USB bootable

 

[Lancer]

Either way I've got a good FW400 backup HDD for my G5 and a few weeks back I had to boot from it to fix permissions on the OS X HDD, one thing I noticed was how slow it was to boot. I know USB2 is technically faster at 480 but I suspect it would still be slower.

FYI I recently got a FW800 version of the same IceCude case (also with FW400, USB2 and SATAe ports) and will slot in either a 2 or 3 TB HDD when I get my new iMac to use it for Time Machine. I currently use CCC for backing up weekly.

The main reason I didn't just get a bigger HDD for the current IceCube is it's IDE internal so a) limited to 750Gb and b) the IDE HDDs are very expensive compared to the big SATA ones.

 

[jbarley]

He proved nothing since we all experience that booting from USB works. He can troll all he want and live with in his delusion but the truth is the truth.

USB booting is how I install Leopard on most of my powermacs, I have a cloned Leopard install on multiple flash drives. That keeps my install disk to be in shape.

Nameci...
I hope I'm not the "He" you are referring to as a troll in your post.
You do realize that I'm also one who supports the fact that booting from USB is possible, hence my previous post regarding the experiment with my GGD.

 

[LeoTheLion89]

Either way I've got a good FW400 backup HDD for my G5 and a few weeks back I had to boot from it to fix permissions on the OS X HDD, one thing I noticed was how slow it was to boot. I know USB2 is technically faster at 480 but I suspect it would still be slower.

FYI I recently got a FW800 version of the same IceCude case (also with FW400, USB2 and SATAe ports) and will slot in either a 2 or 3 TB HDD when I get my new iMac to use it for Time Machine. I currently use CCC for backing up weekly.

The main reason I didn't just get a bigger HDD for the current IceCube is it's IDE internal so a) limited to 750Gb and b) the IDE HDDs are very expensive compared to the big SATA ones.

this is off topic but i was gonna slim down Leo so i can put it on a Single Layer DVD and i was just wondering what people thought of this idea.

also can a Silicon Image SATA RAID Controller (Based on the Si3112r chip) be used in a PPC mac? i get mixed results looking for this anwer some say yes some say no.

 

[Intell]

May I point out that the thing someone is claiming is that is not possible is that PowerPC Macs cannot boot from a USB device without entering OpenFirmware to change something. Not that USB booting is completely impossible.

Both of these ideas is incorrect and the experiences of those within this thread that have been able to boot to a USB drive without the need of OpenFirmware vastly out measures those that claim OpenFirmware modifications are needed.

Slimming down Leopard is usually because you pirated it. Piracy is not permitted within this forums. Please purchase a Retain Leopard disc.

 

[Lancer]

this is off topic but i was gonna slim down Leo so i can put it on a Single Layer DVD and i was just wondering what people thought of this idea.

also can a Silicon Image SATA RAID Controller (Based on the Si3112r chip) be used in a PPC mac? i get mixed results looking for this anwer some say yes some say no.

The G5 will boot DVD, you either select it in the Startup Disk or on boot hold down 'command & D' (I think please correct me if I'm wrong.) Then you sould be able to install Leopard onto a new HDD.

The slimed down Leopard is it just the OS X or is it an installer DVD? Yes Piracy is a big no no here.

Leopard runs fine on the G5.

Oh and getting back to the G4, just be aware they used IDE HDDs so more expensive than the SATA ones used today. But in a weird twist the G5 used IDE on it's DVD connection and SATA on the HDDs, just something to be aware of.

 

[Intell]

The G5 will boot DVD, you either select it in the Startup Disk or on boot hold down 'command & D' (I think please correct me if I'm wrong.) Then you sould be able to install Leopard onto a new HDD.

Command D is for diagnostics, which aren't on every Mac or installation disc. Pressing C at boot causes the Mac to attempt to boot from an optical drive. I've found that this sometimes doesn't work every time. For greater reliability when trying to boot from an optical drive, it's best to use the boot menu (option at boot) and select the optical disc.

 

[LeoTheLion89]

The G5 will boot DVD, you either select it in the Startup Disk or on boot hold down 'command & D' (I think please correct me if I'm wrong.) Then you sould be able to install Leopard onto a new HDD.

The slimed down Leopard is it just the OS X or is it an installer DVD? Yes Piracy is a big no no here.

Leopard runs fine on the G5.

Oh and getting back to the G4, just be aware they used IDE HDDs so more expensive than the SATA ones used today. But in a weird twist the G5 used IDE on it's DVD connection and SATA on the HDDs, just something to be aware of.

the slimmed down leopard its removing unneeded printer and language files along with exta fonts and X11.

and for the record u didnt really adress anything i asked and also note that slimming the DVD does not mean it is pirated i never said that word you can slim down the retail DVD so u can install Leo on a computer with no DVD drive (as no all macs can read the Leo DVD) the entire reason i asked if slimming works is because i have it on a HDD and would like to but it on a DVD but i have no DL DVDs

 

[Nameci]

Nameci...
I hope I'm not the "He" you are referring to as a troll in your post.
You do realize that I'm also one who supports the fact that booting from USB is possible, hence my previous post regarding the experiment with my GGD.

No you are not.

 

[Intell]

the slimmed down leopard its removing unneeded printer and language files along with exta fonts and X11.

and for the record u didnt really adress anything i asked and also note that slimming the DVD does not mean it is pirated i never said that word you can slim down the retail DVD so u can install Leo on a computer with no DVD drive (as no all macs can read the Leo DVD) the entire reason i asked if slimming works is because i have it on a HDD and would like to but it on a DVD but i have no DL DVDs

Printer drivers, languages, fonts, and X11 can all be deselected when installing the system. There is no gain from removing them from the installation disc.

Any Mac that can read a single layer DVD can read a dual layer one. This is one of the specifications of the dual layer DVD standard. Most G4 Macs have a DVD drive in them that can read a single and a dual layer DVD. The few that don't only have a CD drive or the drive is wearing out causing it to not be able to read any DVD, as is the case with some G4 iMac optical drives. Those drives that are CD only still can't be used to install Leopard because Leopard cannot be reduced to fit onto a set of CDs, due to how the installation works. If you have it one a hard drive, then you must have the original retail disc. Why not just use that? Unless you pirated it and now just have a disk image of it.

 

[LeoTheLion89]

Printer drivers, languages, fonts, and X11 can all be deselected when installing the system. There is no gain from removing them from the installation disc.

Any Mac that can read a single layer DVD can read a dual layer one. This is one of the specifications of the dual layer DVD standard. Most G4 Macs have a DVD drive in them that can read a single and a dual layer DVD. The few that don't only have a CD drive or the drive is wearing out causing it to not be able to read any DVD, as is the case with some G4 iMac optical drives. Those drives that are CD only still can't be used to install Leopard because Leopard cannot be reduced to fit onto a set of CDs, due to how the installation works. If you have it one a hard drive, then you must have the original retail disc. Why not just use that? Unless you pirated it and now just have a disk image of it.

because i cant find my Leopard HDD lol plus point of "Simming" it is cuz rite not Leo is on a 20GB HDD that id rather use for Linux and id rather put it on a 4-6GB HDD as i have pleanty of 3 and 6GB HDDs laying around. Also theres a video on youtube of someone with a eMac unable to use the Leopard DVD as his eMac can read SL DVDs and play DVD Movies just fine but will not read DL DVDs also heard this same thing with other G4s they will play DVDs but will NOT read DL DVDs

 

[92WardSenatorFE]

because i cant find my Leopard HDD lol plus point of "Simming" it is cuz rite not Leo is on a 20GB HDD that id rather use for Linux and id rather put it on a 4-6GB HDD as i have pleanty of 3 and 6GB HDDs laying around

Have you tried just using the DVD when you need to install Leopard on your Macs? If you do that, then you don't need Leopard installed on an external HDD, and you will have the entire HDD free. If you have a Mac with a CD drive (or a non-functioning optical drive), then just use target disk mode via a firewire cable from a supported Mac.

 

[Intell]

because i cant find my Leopard HDD lol plus point of "Simming" it is cuz rite not Leo is on a 20GB HDD that id rather use for Linux and id rather put it on a 4-6GB HDD as i have pleanty of 3 and 6GB HDDs laying around. Also theres a video on youtube of someone with a eMac unable to use the Leopard DVD as his eMac can read SL DVDs and play DVD Movies just fine but will not read DL DVDs also heard this same thing with other G4s they will play DVDs but will NOT read DL DVDs

You can't find your Leopard hard drive? That doesn't make much sense. Still sounds like you obtained a Leopard disk image through nefarious means. The eMac not being able to read a dual layer DVD is because the drive is wearing out. If the drive doesn't already, it won't be able to read any DVDs for much longer or the dual layer disc is extremely scratched. G4 iMacs are the most commonly effected model to have the failing DVD part of the optical drive, but it has been seen in other G4 era desktop class optical drives. Also, most commercially made DVD movies are dual layer discs. The cool thing is that when engineers were designing dual layer discs, they made them completely backwards compatible with the drives that had been made for a few years before hand allowing them to refocus their laser onto the new track and continue reading the data stream.

 

[LeoTheLion89]

Have you tried just using the DVD when you need to install Leopard on your Macs? If you do that, then you don't need Leopard installed on an external HDD, and you will have the entire HDD free. If you have a Mac with a CD drive (or a non-functioning optical drive), then just use target disk mode via a firewire cable from a supported Mac.

i dont have the DVD and as mentioned i dont even use firewire no point when USB is faster the DVD was borrowed and its costs more than Windows 7 to get a copy!!!!

short OF pirating its next to impossible to find a Leopard DVD that is cheaper than a Intel Mac Pirating tho illegal is just so frickin much easier!