Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
And there you go they have a model for you with the LCD models. Voice over is a fairly simply fix. PWM is a hardware limitation not software. And once again they have a solution go buy the LCD model
Actually, people have been able to create custom kernels for the S7/S8 that remove most of the PWM. We don't know for sure that Apple wouldn't be able to address this with software.

Anyway, "go buy the LCD model" isn't really a solution since it's rumored to be lacking a bunch of features and Apple may go full OLED in 2019 anyway.
 
Actually, people have been able to create custom kernels for the S7/S8 that remove most of the PWM. We don't know for sure that Apple wouldn't be able to address this with software.

Anyway, "go buy the LCD model" isn't really a solution since it's rumored to be lacking a bunch of features and Apple may go full OLED in 2019 anyway.


Keyword is “most”.


At the end of the day Apple will do what it wants and if you don’t like it you do have options. You have the rumored 6.1, iPhone 8 or Android. At the end of the day these phones all do the same thing which is connect you to the internet,messenger service through SMS ( other options like WhatsApp, iMessage all do the same thing but different ways of doing it ), video calls, phone calls, take pictures/video, connect you to social media and play games. There is other things I’ve probably missed but iOS and Android does all the necessities for all the first world country people needs. At the end of the day a smartphone is a luxury and people need to start acting like it is instead of complaining left and right about anything
 
At the end of the day a smartphone is a luxury and people need to start acting like it is instead of complaining left and right about anything
Not sure why you'd come into a thread where we're specifically talking about a certain problem and then tell us to stop "complaining left and right about anything", that's not going to solve anything. Especially when other people have actually come up with their own solutions, like the custom Android kernel.
 
Not sure why you'd come into a thread where we're specifically talking about a certain problem and then tell us to stop "complaining left and right about anything", that's not going to solve anything. Especially when other people have actually come up with their own solutions, like the custom Android kernel.

Then go buy an Android phone problem solved. Or buy the lcd iPhones. First world problems seriously
 
Then go buy an Android phone problem solved. Or buy the lcd iPhones. First world problems seriously
I'm switching from Android because the phones that are any good have gone OLED. I've been using Google Nexus phones for 5 years but they have now been replaced by the OLED-equipped Pixel line. The only Android phones with promised software and security updates that use LCD displays are not that good.

And the iPhone 6.1 is an option, and for me it's the best option at this time, but I'm not that excited about it. I wanted 3D touch and the telephoto camera of the X. And I didn't want a phone any bigger than the X. I now have to make big compromises because it's the one iPhone that's going to be released this year with an LCD display. And who knows if it's the last before everything is OLED.

The reason we "complain", or raise concerns as I prefer to say, is that the future is uncertain for us who can't use OLED equipped devices. If you don't have an issue then that's great for you, but you're not adding anything useful to this thread by dismissing those of us who do have issues with this.
 
Then go buy an Android phone problem solved. Or buy the lcd iPhones. First world problems seriously
Yeah, we'll all just go switch ecosystems to a completely different brand and OS, no problem there :rolleyes:

We all know it's a first world problem, I don't why you keep repeating that. Are you saying no one should be talking about issues like this? Or what? I don't think this thread is for you.
 
Yeah, we'll all just go switch ecosystems to a completely different brand and OS, no problem there :rolleyes:

We all know it's a first world problem, I don't why you keep repeating that. Are you saying no one should be talking about issues like this? Or what? I don't think this thread is for you.

Because as I said before Android and iOS is so different? It’s not really
 
I'm switching from Android because the phones that are any good have gone OLED. I've been using Google Nexus phones for 5 years but they have now been replaced by the OLED-equipped Pixel line. The only Android phones with promised software and security updates that use LCD displays are not that good.

And the iPhone 6.1 is an option, and for me it's the best option at this time, but I'm not that excited about it. I wanted 3D touch and the telephoto camera of the X. And I didn't want a phone any bigger than the X. I now have to make big compromises because it's the one iPhone that's going to be released this year with an LCD display. And who knows if it's the last before everything is OLED.

The reason we "complain", or raise concerns as I prefer to say, is that the future is uncertain for us who can't use OLED equipped devices. If you don't have an issue then that's great for you, but you're not adding anything useful to this thread by dismissing those of us who do have issues with this.

I went back to iPhones because of oled. Was perfectly happy with my Note 8 but iMessage is king.


You have options like the new lcd iPhone but still isn’t good for you all
 
I don’t like the direction Apple is taking. Get a phone too big for me to pocket or accept reduced features. Get a headache inducing phone or accept reduced features.
 
  • Like
Reactions: user1234
Do we have any news on this with the New iPhones announcement? Also, any idea if the have a fix for the pink/blue hue of some of the original X phones?
 
Ok, so I'm going to rant here for a bit. Please bear with me.

It may be the easiest way, but the most accurate way is a light sensor hooked up to an oscilloscope. If the flicker frequency happens to be in sync with the frame rate and shutter speed flicker may not be seen even though it exists. I'm using a BPW34 miniature solar cell which I'm planning on connecting to a computer running a software called Soundcard Oscilloscope. It will not allow me to calculate the flicker percentage as it will not give me an amplitude reference, but I will be able to see the frequency of the flicker if there is any. As soon as I have built an enclosure for the miniature solar cell, I will start testing on all of my devices. Both those who are giving me problems, and those who are fine, so that I can understand what works for me and what doesn't.

The reason I'm sharing this even though it may technically be off topic is that measuring is the only effective way to learn what causes issues and what doesn't. With this knowledge I will hopefully be able to test things before I purchase, or at least within the return period. This is the length those of us who are most sensitive have to go through to not have issues with LED lighting and OLED panels becoming the norm. TV panels have had these issues for years, and it can be a complete nightmare to find one that works well.

I agree that Apple should put effort into getting rid of PWM. They did it with their computers a long time ago, with their iPhones at some point (not sure when iPhones got rid of PWM if they ever used it in those) and I think they should invest some of their R&D into getting OLED panels to be flicker free. The same goes for the Micro-LED panels they are rumored to be interested in. They use the same principle of operation as OLED so the same R&D would be applicable there.

What frustrates me the most is that the big tech companies doesn't acknowledge this issue. If we assume that the estimated 10% of the population being sensitive is accurate then 10% may be a relatively small percentage of Apples users, but with over a billion of active devices this would be millions of users even though many users have multiple devices. I don't know how to get the attention of those who can make a difference with this issue. There has to be employees of both Apple and Google who can't tolerate OLED, and yet both these companies are going all out on OLED. Do they not care?

Reviewers are not making the situation any better either, raising OLED devices to the sky while complaining over LCD displays. For the end user this does not make a big difference. I would assume that the number of users who truly care and won't settle for LCD is relatively small. Apple use some of the best LCD panels available, and they have kept pushing this now very mature technology to make it great. I think these tech giants are afraid to use LCD panels because they don't want to get bashed by reviewers and have poor sales. Yes, OLED can technically achieve better color accuracy, works well with HDR, and has blacklevels that LCD can't compete with. I can however say that the amount of times I have looked at any of my LCD devices in the dark lately and noticed black not being 100% black is 0. If I look for it I can see it, but under normal use it's a non-issue.

Any ideas how we can raise the issue? A petition? An open letter? Both? Something else?

Rant over.

On topic:
I have no hope that this years OLED phones will have gotten rid of the PWM, or even have increased PWM frequency. It's LCD for me all the way. I would possibly like an Apple Watch, but I didn't realize until yesterday that they too use OLED so that will take some careful consideration.

Apple is definitely aware of the issue but I have no information about the new phones.
 
Last edited:
I hope someone can test PWM on all 3 new iPhone models as soon as possible.

I'm going to assume the XS models will have PWM just like last year's X model. If that's the case, I'll be getting the XR (hopefully no PWM). If all 3 models have PWM, I'll be getting an 8 Plus.
 
Last edited:
I hope someone can test PWM on all 3 new iPhone models as soon as possible.

I'm going to assume the XS models will have PWM just like last year's X model. If that's the case, I'll be getting the XR (hopefully no PWM). If all 3 models have PWM, I'll be getting an 8 Plus.

It’s unlikely the Xr model will have any PWM as it uses a LCD display.

For now let’s remain cautiously optimistic about the Xs models.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1369281
It’s unlikely the Xr model will have any PWM as it uses a LCD display.

For now let’s remain cautiously optimistic about the Xs models.
As amazing as it would be to have a PWM-free iPhone XS, I can't imagine that'll be true. MAYBE they will have raised the frequency/refresh, but I don't know. I seriously hope it's gone altogether... somehow. Rock on!
 
  • Like
Reactions: MICHAELSD
Do they even have to remove it completely? Just upping the Hz from 240 to something higher would potentially fix our problems, right?
 
Do they even have to remove it completely? Just upping the Hz from 240 to something higher would potentially fix our problems, right?

Over 1000Hz is the range where it starts to become indiscernible to the human eye.

It is possible they could have removed it at higher brightnesses even if they didn’t remove it altogether. It’s also likely the Xs Max and Xs won’t be identical so one or the other may have a superior PWM rate.
 
Over 1000Hz is the range where it becomes indiscernible to the human eye.

It is possible they could have removed it at higher brightnesses even if they didn’t remove it altogether. It’s also likely the Xs Max and Xs won’t be identical so one or the other may have a superior PWM rate.

But let’s remember that some experience symptoms at higher rates than 1 kHz. Around 15 kHz is generally regarded as completely trouble free, but there is debate at lower rates, especially below 10 kHz.

OLED is tricky to get faster, and even trickier to remove flicker from completely. I’m optimistic that it will happen at some point, but the question is if we’re talking years or decades.
 
OLED is tricky to get faster, and even trickier to remove flicker from completely. I’m optimistic that it will happen at some point, but the question is if we’re talking years or decades.
Yeah, this makes me a little pessimistic about this year's phones being any better PWM-wise. So frustrating.
 
I posted this in the other PWM discussion thread, wanted to let you guys know as well:

I was able to talk with someone at Apple and they confirmed that the screens in the new XS phones have not changed at all in terms of PWM since last year's X. The good news is that they are aware of the issue, it's not being ignored. Here's hoping they're able to address it next year.

Also, some people were wondering if the XR might potentially have PWM, I was also able to confirm that it is completely PWM free like the usual Apple LCD screens, so at least we have that as an option.
 
I posted this in the other PWM discussion thread, wanted to let you guys know as well:

I was able to talk with someone at Apple and they confirmed that the screens in the new XS phones have not changed at all in terms of PWM since last year's X. The good news is that they are aware of the issue, it's not being ignored. Here's hoping they're able to address it next year.

Also, some people were wondering if the XR might potentially have PWM, I was also able to confirm that it is completely PWM free like the usual Apple LCD screens, so at least we have that as an option.

Disappointing if true.

XR looks cool but it’s really a compromise that the display isn’t even 1080p. 326ppi is lower than even the previous Plus models. Out of necessity I don’t mind the LCD (even after wanting OLED for years). So I’m not necessarily sure yet that it’s an upgrade from an iPhone 8+. Would’ve been better if they came closer to or matched the PPI on the other X phones, even if they priced it at $799 which would have been the same price as last year’s Plus model. I get wanting to differentiate it to make the other models look more appealing but a $799 price point with higher PPI and a dual camera setup would have been ideal.
 
  • Like
Reactions: timeconsumer
I posted this in the other PWM discussion thread, wanted to let you guys know as well:

I was able to talk with someone at Apple and they confirmed that the screens in the new XS phones have not changed at all in terms of PWM since last year's X. The good news is that they are aware of the issue, it's not being ignored. Here's hoping they're able to address it next year.

Also, some people were wondering if the XR might potentially have PWM, I was also able to confirm that it is completely PWM free like the usual Apple LCD screens, so at least we have that as an option.

Thank you for sharing! It's great news that Apple is aware of the issue! Also happy it's confirmed that the XR LCD is PWM free, although I was nearly 100% sure it would be.
 
Not changed at all? Oh no. :( I can tolerate the Samsung S9+ OLED display just fine. So I was hoping Apple would just adjust theirs similarly.

I guess I’ll have to cancel my preorder. I had wanted the XS for the better modem.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.