Quad, 6-, or 8-core Mac Pro for Logic?

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by musicguy7, Jul 13, 2011.

  1. musicguy7, Jul 13, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2011

    musicguy7 macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    #1
    Hi,

    After the false alarm of new mac pros being announced tomorrow, I was wondering which mac pro would be the most effective handling Logic and tons of plugins (basically everything is AUs). I am mainly interested in the choice between the quad and 8-core, and if Logic will take advantage of the extra cores (and hyper threading?) in the 8-core. Looking at the Logic Benchmark thread, some of the quads only getting 40-50 tracks scares me...
     
  2. derbothaus macrumors 601

    derbothaus

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2010
    #2
    Logic does not use VST. It uses Audio Units, but same idea. Logic uses all available cores to great success after 9.1.4 patch. High clock speeds are still nice though as certain operations in Logic have to be executed on 1-core. On my 6-core I get between 112-121 tracks depending on run. But I think my buffer was set to 64 samples not the 256 you are supposed to set it to while running the test. Also that was 32-bit Logic 9.1.4. But it does point to the gearslutz list as being fairly correct. Be aware some of the bench's are using 9.1.3 as well.
     
  3. musicguy7 thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    #3
    Could you list some operations? If you had to choose between 4- and 8-core for Logic and plugins, what would you choose?
     
  4. derbothaus macrumors 601

    derbothaus

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2010
    #4
    Current 2010 models? Either the 3.2GHz Quad or the 2.4GHz 8-core. I would not get the 2.8GHz unless you were planning on upgrading the processor for pretty cheap.
    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1122551

    I mean there really are not too many options right? If you can't swing the cost of the 6-core 3.33 maybe upgrading a 2.8 to a 3.2 6-core is doable. If you are uncomfortable replacing the processor after reading through the thread and directions then you should get the 2.4GHz 8-core if you primarily do audio with a few plugs. If you are midi heavy and use a ton of plugs you may be better served with the 3.2GHz Quad.

    I believe each tracks inserts have to be processed on the same core. The project is distributed to all cores but each tracks "extras" have to be processed on 1-2 cores (depending on having hyperthreading or not). Something like that.
     
  5. musicguy7 thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    #5
    Yeah I am definitly midi heavy, and most of my tracks are plugins. The only audio tracks for my projects will be a few vocal tracks. Is the 3.2 upgrade from 2.8 worth it? I read that upgrade thread, and I definitely do not feel capable of pulling something like that off...
     
  6. zephonic, Jul 14, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2011

    zephonic macrumors 65816

    zephonic

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Location:
    greater L.A. area
    #6
    The 3.2 quad is most certainly not worth it. Intel lists it at the same price as the base 2.8 yet Apple inexplicably charges an extra $400 for it.

    The hex upgrade as documented in the link posted by derbothaus is the only way to get at least some value for your money. Otherwise, all single-CPU MacPros are royal rip-offs atm.

    That said, if you can afford the base 8-core at $3499, you'd better fork out the extra $200 for the hexacore. By all accounts, that is the best machine for audio and VI's right now.
     
  7. musicguy7 thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    #7
    I am down for paying the extra 200 for the hex, but I actually found 2 "official sources" that I think state the 2.4 8 core is actually superior to the 3.3 hex for Logic use, something along the lines that Logic is one of the unique applications right now that the multiple cores outweigh the higher speed of the hex. Am I misinterpreting the results of these two tests, and is it still a fact the hex will handle more plugins in Logic than the 8 core? Was there some update since these tests that made the hex superior?

    http://macperformanceguide.com/Reviews-MacProWestmere-LogicStudio.html

    "On the 2.4GHz 8-core
    Clearly something works with 8 cores, because I was able to get to as many as 78 tracks without the system overload message, at least occassionaly.

    More reliably, I saw 62 tracks work for some periods of time, which is a lot more than with the 3.33Ghz 6-core machine."

    http://macperformanceguide.com/Reviews-MacProWestmere-Conclusions.html

    "The 2.4GHz 8-core
    The 2.4GHz 8-core model is a dud; at best it can only come close to the 3.33GHz 6-core model, with the sole exception of apparently more resilient performance with Logic Studio. However, the fact that it has 8 memory slots might make it a viable choice for specific purposes. For most users, ignore it."

    http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/371545-logic-pro-multicore-benchmarktest.html

    These tests were all updated last prior to 2011, so maybe updates changed the hex performance?
     
  8. derbothaus, Jul 14, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2011

    derbothaus macrumors 601

    derbothaus

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2010
    #8
    Yes. There were initial issues when the 6-core came out. It performed the worst. A patch and then a version update fixed the issues and it gets more tracks than the 8-core. Just compare the 8-core in Logic 9.1.4 to the 6-core in same test. They are either really close or the 6-core beats it slightly. In most every other application the 6-core will beat the 8. The clock speed of the 8-core is just too slow. Get the 2.8 quad on refurb and update to 3.2 or 3.33 hex.
    The other quotes are from previous issues that have been fixed. Did you also see in macperformance guide (that you linked to) that he was able to get 115 tracks on the 6-core and 78 on the 8-core? So not sure why you are thinking the 8-core was faster.
     
  9. musicguy7 thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    #9
    Hi, last thing I am unsure of, is I think I may have several plugins that may not be 64 bit, will this affect how I run the Hex (turning HT on/off, or running in 32/64 bit) and compromise its performance? Sorry, not too computer savvy...I'm guessing the answer is HT doesn't relate to 32/64 bits? and I will have to run in 64 and some of my 32s won't work?
     
  10. derbothaus macrumors 601

    derbothaus

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2010
    #10
    HT does not matter for plugs. Most plugins, 90% anyway are not 64-bit. That's why apple built in the 64-bit "bridge". It sucks but you can run Logic in 64-bit with 32-bit plugs. But as I may have mentioned. I use Logic in 32-bit only at the moment as I hate using the 64-bit bridge. You can only view one window at a time and it crashes regularly. 64-bit only matter is your projects are fairly large. And you can toggle at any point. So I go 32-bit initially, if I need more headroom I go to 64-bit and hopefully I don't have to tweak my plugs too much at that point. Apple, as usual, expected plugin devs to get 64-bit versions out but I have not seen 1 plug in out of the 300+ I use to have a 64-bit updated version. So we are stuck in limbo. Even BFD is 32-bit. Crazy.
     
  11. musicguy7 thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    #11
    Hey another q about your 6 core. Got this off gearslutz and was wondering if Logic 9.1.4 fixed this:

    "I have the 6 core. It is a great machine, but there is a problem with Logic 9.1.3: You will most likely have a 1-2 second freeze every now and then when pressing play or skipping thru by clicking on the time ruler bar. Gets annoying when doing heavy editing. This is processor related because the problem goes away if you disable all threads but 2 in Logic´s Prefs."

    Thanks again
     
  12. zephonic macrumors 65816

    zephonic

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Location:
    greater L.A. area
    #12
    AFAIK, Spectrasonics, NI and now EW Play 3 are 64-bit native. Not sure about everything else, but those are the major players.

    Everybody else is just waiting for the iLok to go 64-bit. Once that happens, the migration should be pretty swift.
     
  13. derbothaus macrumors 601

    derbothaus

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2010
    #13
    Good thing too. Those plugs need it:) Are all NI plugs 64-bit now? Just wondering.
    I'm waiting for iLok as well. Can't work without the Waves SSL suite.
     
  14. derbothaus macrumors 601

    derbothaus

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2010
    #14
    I don't have this issue in 32-bit 9.1.4. Did not have it in 9.1.3 either. Maybe it is some other issue causing their problem. Maybe 64-bit does it? Maybe their HW drivers don't like something? I am not following any active issue with Logic that pertains exclusively to the 6-core machine. Logic has bugs, no doubt, but I am not aware of it only affecting a certain model since the 9.1.3+ versions.
     
  15. musicguy7 thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    #15
    Is it true you get more "headroom" by running in 64 bit opposed to 32 bit, and can make your tracks louder more easily?
     
  16. zephonic macrumors 65816

    zephonic

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Location:
    greater L.A. area
    #16
    What you are alluding to is the difference between 24-bit fixed point recording and 32-bit floating point recording. Theoretically, with the latter you can't blow past full scale.

    The only discernible difference between 32-bit and 64-bit is the amount of memory you can use. With 32-bit there's a ±3.5GB cap, with 64-bit that is xxx TB.
     
  17. musicguy7 thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    #17
    Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

    What do you guys recommend is the best ram configuration for the hex and logic right now? Will having much more than 4 gigs benefit much when running in 32?
     
  18. philipma1957, Jul 15, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2011

    philipma1957 macrumors 603

    philipma1957

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2010
    Location:
    Howell, New Jersey
    #18
    ram can be had at good prices if you are usa located

    the code Icecream gets you 10 bucks off.

    http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php...t-DDR3-1333-4GB-256x8-ECC-Hynix-Server-Memory

    3 x 4gb sticks for 120 use code 10 bucks off 110 for 12gb ram





    http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php...-DDR3-1333-8GB-ECC-REG-Original-Server-Memory


    3 x 8gb sticks for 351 use code for 10 bucks off 341 for 24gb ram






    this is how to turn a 2010 quad 2.8 into a hex 3.33

    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1122551&highlight=


    here is a link for a 3.33 hex cpu fully warranted

    http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Intel-Xeon-...ore-/150631254857?pt=CPUs&hash=item2312528b49 615

    link for 2010 quad 2.8

    http://store.apple.com/us/product/FC560LL/A?mco=MTkyMTM1OTY 2119


    so cpu----------- 615

    quad 2.8------- 2119

    12gb ram--------110

    total------------- 2844



    if you shop carefully the 2119 price for the quad can be found lower a hex 3.33 with 12gb ram purchased from apple online is

    4224
     
  19. xgman macrumors 601

    xgman

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2007
    #19
    logic runs best with loads of system memory, well, until you are stuck with 32bit plugins.....
     
  20. derbothaus macrumors 601

    derbothaus

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2010
    #20
    Yes. But using the bridge in 64-bit each plug in can have 4GB memory:)
    So stack it in there. I'd say 8GB minimum. I run 10GB but will probably go 16-24 soon enough.
     
  21. zephonic macrumors 65816

    zephonic

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Location:
    greater L.A. area
    #21
    Since it's triple-channel memory, I'd say at least 12GB (3x4).
     
  22. musicguy7 thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    #22
    yea I'm planning to go with 3*4 gb form canada ram

    12288 MB Kit (3x4G)

    Kingston KTA-MP1333/4Gx3 $ 177

    Certified 61768x3 $ 167
     

Share This Page