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The film is much less expensive than another monitor. ;) That's a real waste of funds at that point. :eek: :p

Trust me I am not as esoteric as some of the remarks here on color management. At the end of the day a calibrated CRTs were much better at accuracy than today's LCDs... but that's another thread. :eek:

Film on the other hand film can distort, especially at viewing angles.

The point with the iMac was that if you already have a matte display you can use it also instead of ruling out the iMac altogether.

So far the strongest argument that I've read for keeping my MP is that it's not an AIO. Which doen't mean much as I also have a laptop to fall back on.

The new iMacs are going to cannibalize the MP. :(
 
Has anyone else considered eye strain with these new 27" iMacs? I have a new 17" Macbook Pro that is LED backlit with a relatively high pixel density (1920x1200 on a 17" Glossy Disply). I can't use it for more than about 30 minutes as my eyes start to feel heavy. I have never had that problem with any other display. Food for thought when considering the 27" iMac over a 30" ACD.
 
Has anyone else considered eye strain with these new 27" iMacs? I have a new 17" Macbook Pro that is LED backlit with a relatively high pixel density (1920x1200 on a 17" Glossy Disply). I can't use it for more than about 30 minutes as my eyes start to feel heavy. I have never had that problem with any other display. Food for thought when considering the 27" iMac over a 30" ACD.

There are several threads like this one that link eye strain to flicker on the Macbook Pros and Macbook Airs due to faulty Nvidia laptop GPUs. I haven't seen any issues with desktop displays. Very early though for the iMacs.
 
Indeed.

The music genre does not "need" the MPs,headless computers are just easier on logistics/ergonomics atm. The processing power and portability is allready in the laptops.

True, but I am sure that the audio world would love to have a machine that can process multiple streams of uncompressed audio while a technician is mixing it down on the other end.

Not to mention the amount of PCI cards needed for the I/O and bandwidth of said streams and storage of said streams

The photo,about the same.
The print requirements (300dpi) stagnated years ago and in that area there will not be noticeable advancement during the printed pages era. It might last 10 or 100 years,but still. It will not evolve a lot further. Machines from 1995 could handle the pics (A4,A3) let alone the present ones.
In direct photo manipulation the requirements are higher and will get higher for some time. Export TIFFs from Raw are 120-400Mb´s,manipulated files of 1-5 Gb are not uncommon and with bigger sensor sizes they will get higher.
But even the future (5yrs) are manageable even by the modern computers and programs,let alone if the programs would be optimized.

Not completely true. Photogs need that power mainly for exporting those large images files and shifting through large libraries. True that the iMac i7 can handle it, but once again we get into the expansion and PCI equation. I wouldn't want to use a machine from 1995 to handle a Canon 5DMkII RAW file with the current apps that can run it.

But, I do agree that a desktop class chip in an iMac is a sweet deal for most photogs. The user will just have to choose whether they want expansion or not.

Moving pictures,aka,video.
A bit tougher one.
The high definition era is here,but the 1080p will be the roof for the next 10-15 years. The infrastructure (worldwide,japan excluded) is just not there yet. Terrestial infra is just so clogged,even if we could get rid of the SD content.Wich we wont for decade or two.
And content delivery purely via net just wont happen as it is even more bogged down,even in the western civilisations.
Let alone in the emerging or dormant markets,where it will take the next half a decade or close to reach maturity.
So,the 1080p will be the max medium for a while.
Wich can be handled by the present machines just fine.

And,the BIG moving media creators will be enough financed to get their server based systems where the layout will probably be the server+dumb heads.And I dont mean the operators here...
So they will get by without the towers allso.

Not true. The server may be able to feed the info to the machine, but the apps needed for broadcast are far more taxing on the system than even the hog that is Color. Avid Media composer even with a mojo is a beast that wants the fastest machine possible. And a decent cutter can bog down even an 8 core Mac Pro with a few streams of Pro Res 422 let along uncompressed 10 bit HD.

Then you have the same old problem.... PCI. There are not too many capture cards for firewire 800, and even in the age of tapeless camcorders a capture card is still ideal for bringing in uncompressed footage, which most tapeless cams don't record. And if you do have a P2 or XDCAM body, you'll need that capture card for cross conversion.

Lastly, that server based solution, for sending in that HD or uncompressed HD isn't going to do it over ethernet, it's going to need 2Gbit or 4Gbit Fibre channel which needs a PCI card.

Towers will be here for more than 5 or 10 years. They may get smaller, or look different, but they will be here.

So?

The headless systems are NEEDED there definately will be need for the towers and the likes.
After the said 10-15 years,hell,things will look way,way different.

Yes, this is true.

Nice chatting.
 
I'm not looking for a Pro anymore. The improvements to the quad Imac finally makes it right.

Large internal drive.
Quad is fast enough for HD video rendering.
Monitor is excellent.
4 ram slots for inexpensive memory upgrade.

Studio or scientific work might require an expansion card or hard drive array, but most of us never needed one.
 
I'm not looking for a Pro anymore. The improvements to the quad Imac finally makes it right.

Large internal drive.
Quad is fast enough for HD video rendering.
Monitor is excellent.
4 ram slots for inexpensive memory upgrade.

Studio or scientific work might require an expansion card or hard drive array, but most of us never needed one.

senseless meets sense.
 
Film on the other hand film can distort, especially at viewing angles.
I haven't used it, so I don't know from experience. I would however expect potential issues with it over air bubbles beneath it after installation, even with a squeege.

The point with the iMac was that if you already have a matte display you can use it also instead of ruling out the iMac altogether.
If you have one, great. Otherwise, it's an expensive proposition to get an iMac + matte screen. The MP makes a little more sense if a monitor is needed as well, as it can then allow the ability to upgrade the graphics card (assuming you need a pro monitor, then the fixed GPU in the iMac will be a bottleneck down the road as software continues to bloat).
 
Not true. The server may be able to feed the info to the machine, but the apps needed for broadcast are far more taxing on the system than even the hog that is Color. Avid Media composer even with a mojo is a beast that wants the fastest machine possible. And a decent cutter can bog down even an 8 core Mac Pro with a few streams of Pro Res 422 let along uncompressed 10 bit HD.

Then you have the same old problem.... PCI. There are not too many capture cards for firewire 800, and even in the age of tapeless camcorders a capture card is still ideal for bringing in uncompressed footage, which most tapeless cams don't record. And if you do have a P2 or XDCAM body, you'll need that capture card for cross conversion.


Sorry for being vague : I was talking about broadcasting (terrestial/cable television) not editing. The end user limitation that is 1080p for the next decade or two.The end user will be "sorted".

But.

Obviously the production segment will continue developing and taxing all the possible hardware developed.
In film 4k+ workflow will become prevalent in the coming years as there finally starts to be 4k projectors (toshiba,texas instruments?) and that will be punishing to machinery..
 
Brave New World!

The Mini Display Port to DVI adapter is for output.

Display Port to Mini Display Port from an external video card doesn't work either.

Exactly!

People still think the old way, like power cables.
Assuming that of it works one way, it automatically works the other way. Cable is cable, right?

Wrong.
In the multi-pin digital cable era that's definitely no longer the case.
If your output pins are wired (as in the MD to DVI adapter) then this doesn't mean your input pins are.

People cannot just assume these adapters work both ways.

However I do fault Apple for not making this clear or not thinking far ahead enough to modify this adapter to work both ways.
 
Another interesting way to look at the iMac is that you could buy two i7 quads and run them side-by-side with Teleport (one keyboard/mouse) and effectively get 8 cores, 8GB, 2TB and dual 27" LED displays for $4400 vs. $4700 for 8 cores, 6GB, 640GB and no display in a MP.

If you are a Multi-tasking monster, this may be the best value, combined with a nice iSCSI RAID NAS! :D
 
Another interesting way to look at the iMac is that you could buy two i7 quads and run them side-by-side with Teleport (one keyboard/mouse) and effectively get 8 cores, 8GB, 2TB and dual 27" LED displays for $4400 vs. $4700 for 8 cores, 6GB, 640GB and no display in a MP.

If you are a Multi-tasking monster, this may be the best value, combined with a nice iSCSI RAID NAS! :D


There are many more specs to a Mac Pro / iMac comparison than just cores, GBs and TB.

There's hyperthreading.
There's error correction memory.
There's uptime (Xeon CPUs are built to run full speed on all cores 24/7, the i5 or i7 in the iMac would probably blow soon).
There's the digital audio in/out.
There's the internal HD and GPU expandability.
There's the ability to user-upgrade to a Blu-Ray drive.
The 'I lose the whole computer if the monitor breaks' part.
The easily swappable HDs - ideal for off-site storage.
The support for up to 8 30" displays.
And many more.

It really depends on each user's needs.
2 quad-core iMacs may not be the best value at all.
 
There are many more specs to a Mac Pro / iMac comparison than just cores, GBs and TB.

There's hyperthreading.
There's error correction memory.
There's uptime (Xeon CPUs are built to run full speed on all cores 24/7, the i5 or i7 in the iMac would probably blow soon).
There's the digital audio in/out.
There's the internal HD and GPU expandability.
There's the ability to user-upgrade to a Blu-Ray drive.
The 'I lose the whole computer if the monitor breaks' part.
The easily swappable HDs - ideal for off-site storage.
The support for up to 8 30" displays.
And many more.

It really depends on each user's needs.
2 quad-core iMacs may not be the best value at all.

I said "may" be the best value, so we agree... it really depends on user's needs.

You also have a couple of factual errors worth pointing out...
- The i7 iMac has Hyperthreading (all i7 CPU's do)
- Xeon is just a brand, nothing more.
- You would have been more correct to say the cooling in the iMac is probably less capable than the MP (although many would argue the Mac Pro fan speeds are entirely inadequate for the job) but it's not a fair conclusion that the i5 or i7 processor is going to have a shorter lifespan... it may just mean louder fan noise at high loads.
- All Apple products have digital optical audio in/out as well (even laptops).

At any rate, I think we can conclude it's a sad statement about the value of the MP.
 
Thanks for pointing differences out.

Perhaps I should have been more specific.
I was merely comparing 2x quadcore iMac vs. octocore Mac Pro. You specifically mentioned i7, but I meant to be more generic, and not every quadcore iMac does hyperthreading.

As far as I know the i7 does not equal a Xeon minus ECC memory. I thought those chips are indeed rated for higher 24/7 usage, which i7 are not. They might be the same chips physically but in internal tests just not found to be as stable, hence sold as i7 rather than Xeon...

And re digital audio I should have explicitly mentioned TOSLINK ports.


And yes, we totally agree on the sorry state of at least the quad-core Mac Pro.

My theory is still that once the Mac Pro moves to hexacore CPUs (1x and 2x) the current quadcore Mac Pro might be kept - at a much lower price point, below the 27" iMac.
Yet the hexacore Mac Pros would be kept roughly at their current price point.
 
- Xeon is just a brand, nothing more.

Aren't Xeons binned by Intel though, wheras the consumer variants are subcontracted? Just something I remember reading.

All Apple products have digital optical audio in/out as well (even laptops).

Audio I/O, indeed. But I don't see a S/PDIF on a MacBook, which I think was the reference.

EDIT - curses..... sucky post time on my part
 
Hmm i have to repair these "units" and never... NEVER EVER i would prefer an iMac over a Mac Pro - NEVER !

If it comes to stability, expanding, reliability the Mac Pro is always 2 Steps before the iMac - but also in the price *snief*

Anyone who owns a MP should be happy to have one.

BTW: The display resolution of the new 27" iMac is imho much too high. Even the ATI 4850 is by far not fast enogh to present the user smooth framerates whilest gaming on this iMac. And please - i talk not about Counterstrike or something similar.
We talk about Call of Duty 4 etc...
Please remember that the ATI 4850 is not a bad card - but is a mobile Version.
 
As far as I know the i7 does not equal a Xeon minus ECC memory. I thought those chips are indeed rated for higher 24/7 usage, which i7 are not. They might be the same chips physically but in internal tests just not found to be as stable, hence sold as i7 rather than Xeon...

The i7 in the iMac (the 860) is different from the Xeon (dual channel instead of triple channel memory as well as ECC) and the Xeons in the octo Mac Pros are very different in that they are designed to communicate in pairs via QPI and also have more sophisticated memory controllers (and consequently are
much more expensive).

But the Xeons in the quad Mac Pro, the W3520 are identical to the Core i7 920 as far as I know apart from ECC memory. Intel charges the same price for the two chips so it seems unlikely that the Xeons are particularly special.
 
The i7 in the iMac (the 860) is different from the Xeon (dual channel instead of triple channel memory as well as ECC) and the Xeons in the octo Mac Pros are very different in that they are designed to communicate in pairs via QPI and also have more sophisticated memory controllers (and consequently are
much more expensive).

But the Xeons in the quad Mac Pro, the W3520 are identical to the Core i7 920 as far as I know apart from ECC memory. Intel charges the same price for the two chips so it seems unlikely that the Xeons are particularly special.

The 3500 Xeons are the pick of the litter, as it were, but whether that has any value to anyone outside of those running the largest datacenters remains to be seen.
 
Aren't Xeons binned by Intel though, wheras the consumer variants are subcontracted? Just something I remember reading.
I've not seen anything on Intel having their parts subcontracted, nor can I find anything. I know Intel's running the 45nm process in both the Costa Rican and Malaysian facilities.

I haven't noticed any parts from the Vietnamese facility yet, but it was supposed to go online this year (with 3yrs to hit full production capacity). But I think it's meant for chipsets, though it is a 45nm process. This would allow the other 45nm facilities to produce strictly CPU's.

But the Xeons in the quad Mac Pro, the W3520 are identical to the Core i7 920 as far as I know apart from ECC memory. Intel charges the same price for the two chips so it seems unlikely that the Xeons are particularly special.
In the case of the i7-9xx vs. Xeon 35xx parts, they are. The clocks match, as do the prices. ECC functionality is the only difference.

It's the newer i7-8xx line, and they're actually misleading (naming scheme), as they're LGA1156 socket based parts, not LGA1366 parts as those above are (Xeon + i7-9xx). Features are cut/"shaved down". The i5 is also an LGA1156 socket part, but has even fewer features.
 
...
iMac last year no dual display support --> Today dual displays

What do you mean by dual display support? I wasn't aware there were any changes in this regard - my late 2007 24" iMac supported a second 24" display via mini DVI, or a bigger one using a VGA adapter...

unless dual display is something else...
 
But the Xeons in the quad Mac Pro, the W3520 are identical to the Core i7 920 as far as I know apart from ECC memory....

Is ECC today still really that relavent in the real world or is it something that looks nice on a spec sheet? The iMac's lack of ECC means what, dropped video frames during a transfer through the memory bus? I'd really like to know a real world example as I paid a premium on memory to get the ECC.
 
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