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Agree. A lot defend iMacs, but only RAM is upgradable. Mac Pro's are the only systems with power and upgradability in almost everything, and even then the graphics cards Apple offers aren't that great (although my ATI 5770 runs perfectly in my 12-Core Pro).

If Apple released a mid-tower system, with the guts of an iMac and more BTO options in a mid-tower like the Mac Pro but for what a PowerMac used to cost (~$1500), man, that would be awesome.

Agreed! While I love the iMac and the fact that it's a pretty powerful computer which fits most users needs, I was a Powermac user before. I think there is a market for a mid-range expandable tower, but I think that perhaps Apple is not upgrading the Mac Pro and not releasing this kind of mid-range tower in order to get the same behavior in consumers as they have towards iPhones and iPads (buy new one, sell/give/retire old device).

The fact that Apple computers retain a high resale value is a good thing, however some days I would like to simply upgrade my graphics card/my hard disk or whatever, easily. Just like I could with my old PowerMac.

This is why I don't see the mid-range tower happening any time soon, however I really wish they would upgrade the Mac Pro. A lot of professionals would like to have the flexibility that expansion bays and replaceable/upgradable hardware offers!
 
Yeah, I'll thoroughly enjoy watching grandma and grandpa use their tablet toy while I use my computer to get real work done and then some.

Your all powerful workhorse computer, which I assume you're using to post right now, works really well for "dicking around" on MR a lot I must say.

Anyway, really happy to see Quake IV for Mac. I hope Aspyr can bring out the entire Doom and Quake series next :D
 
Tablets of any kind are 99% of the time used for dicking around, nothing more. Youre not going to see developers, designers, animators, photographers, etc. use one. Everything a tablet can do, any laptop or desktop does it too as well as more and better.

However, I know youre only defending the tablet market because you've got blinders on, anything thats Apple related you praise to no end. The proof is in your post here too, you assume that only the iPad is in demand.... LOL! The iPad is going to windup just like OS X; closed system with a small market share in the end. Open platforms, in this case Android will prove iOS inferior... if it hasnt already. Its the problem with OS X (being further by the iPadification of OS X as well as the whole 'app store').

Anyway, its pretty sad to see even apple evangelists like yourself dismiss other Apple products that professionals need, general users really want, and products that deliver actual POWER rather than some eight hundred dollar toy thats locked into iTunes and doesnt have a filebrowser or expansion.

Please refrain from arrogance when entering topics where the iPad has no place, thank you.

Please whine about that on some other forum (androidforums), not here.
 
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Did anyone even like Quake 4? I remember it having poor reviews.

It was okish. Never thought Id were great at making game play (except maybe quake), but they were always good with technology.

However, 20 bucks for a game that is 6-7 years old is a bit steep... Maybe at 10-12 bucks i'd consider it but 20 bucks?
 
Agree. A lot defend iMacs, but only RAM is upgradable. Mac Pro's are the only systems with power and upgradability in almost everything, and even then the graphics cards Apple offers aren't that great (although my ATI 5770 runs perfectly in my 12-Core Pro).
That's right, but as time goes on they're becoming more and more powerful. The next high end 27 inch model should have the AMD Radeon HD 7970M 2GB, which is an under clocked 7870, which is a die shrink of a 6970.
If Apple released a mid-tower system, with the guts of an iMac and more BTO options in a mid-tower like the Mac Pro but for what a PowerMac used to cost (~$1500), man, that would be awesome.
That's unlikely to happen. They charge a $1,000 premium for single processor Mac Pro's over the Dell equivalent to prevent the Mac Pro from hurting iMac sales.
 
$19.99 is way too expensive for a 7 year old game.

You could wait for a sale. It's already been 7 years. Whats a few more months? And get an iTunes card from Best Buy when they have a 20% off deal and then stack up the discount on a sale for an even cheaper price.

People always complain of high prices, but I always get everything in the iTunes store and Mac App store for far cheaper by getting gift cards.
 
They're the future. They're in demand (or rather, the iPad is), and some of the biggest names in tech are betting their future on them.

And what we have with the iPad is an iPod situation.

iPad gaming has a very long way to go to rival PC gaming. I don't think it will ever catch up, especially for FPS, MMO, & RTS.

It will always be more 'casual' and simple.
 
That's unlikely to happen. They charge a $1,000 premium for single processor Mac Pro's over the Dell equivalent to prevent the Mac Pro from hurting iMac sales.

That has been a claim by some that has been proven wrong.

Remember, back before Apple went to Intel and used PPC, their PowerMac G5's cost ~$1500-2000, their iMac's were in that same price range (the white Intel iMac's before the 24" aluminum LED LCD's in 2006-7). PowerMac's didn't have displays, were more powerful than iMacs, just as Mac Pro's are today, and did not cannibalize iMac sales as they catered to a different market. Having worked at Apple, I can tell you 99% of iMac owners are new to Apple from Windows systems, are dazzled by the design/all-in-one system, and have no need for a Mac Pro. Professionals; film editors, photographers, designers who used PowerMac's with EIZO displays and the PCIe/upgradability went with the then affordable PowerMac G4/5's. Now, the Mac Pro's using XEON Server chip's raised the starting price point by $1k than their predecessors (~$2500 starting for a Mac Pro), and with Apple dropping focus on a dedicated display line along with Mac Pro updates, most are leaving Apple after a decade or more.

So a mid-tower system would not cannibalize iMac sales just as the $1500-2000 PowerMac's didn't cannibalize the iMac's in the same price range before Apple went to Intel.
 
Your all powerful workhorse computer, which I assume you're using to post right now, works really well for "dicking around" on MR a lot I must say.

Anyway, really happy to see Quake IV for Mac. I hope Aspyr can bring out the entire Doom and Quake series next :D

No dude, I have an all powerful workhorse tablet that I use for development. :rolleyes:
 
If Crysis was released for Mac OS, you would never experience what the developers WANTED you to experience. Instead you'd be stuck with an awful resolution (good luck playing that on an iMac with mobile graphics on a 27" screen) or settings that are reasonable but with a framerate and lag that would make you want to throw your Mac out the window.

You're definitely right that some games are just all about graphics, like action/fps genre (while others are not of course, like rpg, adventures etc). But you can be sure that a very small percent of PC users also experienced Crysis the way developers wanted. Crysis was released with insane requirements (at least in order to be played with full maxed settings), and nobody can afford such upgrades by the time a game is released. I know I had a PC back then, with pretty decent GPU by that time, and I could only run it with medium settings and lower than monitor's native resolution in order to be nearly smooth.

To sum it up, even for PC ecosystem, most games that rely heavily on graphics are able to be played with max settings on a small percent of PC machines when they are released.
 
Ah... reminds me of the old days at work. 10 player LAN games, all of us on G5's over 100base-T ethernet. Worked a treat. Lunchtimes were never the same... ;)

I might have to purchase this for old times sake.
 
That has been a claim by some that has been proven wrong.

Remember, back before Apple went to Intel and used PPC, their PowerMac G5's cost ~$1500-2000, their iMac's were in that same price range (the white Intel iMac's before the 24" aluminum LED LCD's in 2006-7). PowerMac's didn't have displays, were more powerful than iMacs, just as Mac Pro's are today, and did not cannibalize iMac sales as they catered to a different market. Having worked at Apple, I can tell you 99% of iMac owners are new to Apple from Windows systems, are dazzled by the design/all-in-one system, and have no need for a Mac Pro. Professionals; film editors, photographers, designers who used PowerMac's with EIZO displays and the PCIe/upgradability went with the then affordable PowerMac G4/5's. Now, the Mac Pro's using XEON Server chip's raised the starting price point by $1k than their predecessors (~$2500 starting for a Mac Pro), and with Apple dropping focus on a dedicated display line along with Mac Pro updates, most are leaving Apple after a decade or more.

So a mid-tower system would not cannibalize iMac sales just as the $1500-2000 PowerMac's didn't cannibalize the iMac's in the same price range before Apple went to Intel.
I have to disagree. Apple's a lot bigger now then they were back then, and whilst many users would still buy an iMac, I for one would certainly not if I could pickup a single quad Mac Pro at $1,499.

There's only one reason why they'd give it a $1,000 premium over other equivalent systems, and that's to distinguish it from the iMac. The dual processor models are similarly priced to the competition, but no matter what processor option you chose the single processor Mac Pro is always about $1,000 more expensive than any other equivalent system.
 
Tablets of any kind are 99% of the time used for dicking around, nothing more. Youre not going to see developers, designers, animators, photographers, etc. use one. Everything a tablet can do, any laptop or desktop does it too as well as more and better.

However, I know youre only defending the tablet market because you've got blinders on, anything thats Apple related you praise to no end. The proof is in your post here too, you assume that only the iPad is in demand.... LOL! The iPad is going to windup just like OS X; closed system with a small market share in the end. Open platforms, in this case Android will prove iOS inferior... if it hasnt already. Its the problem with OS X (being further by the iPadification of OS X as well as the whole 'app store').

Anyway, its pretty sad to see even apple evangelists like yourself dismiss other Apple products that professionals need, general users really want, and products that deliver actual POWER rather than some eight hundred dollar toy thats locked into iTunes and doesnt have a filebrowser or expansion.

Please refrain from arrogance when entering topics where the iPad has no place, thank you.

I mostly agree with you here. Except 'The ipad is going to wind up just like OSX; closed system" What?!?! The ipad is FAR more a closed system than the mac, and limited.

Hey, try start writing an email on the ipad, then realize you want to attach a pic, can't do it. Or let's say someone sends you a video and you want to save it to your ipads hard drive ... uhhh. The list goes on and on.
The ipad to me feels like a candy colored jail cell.

And I guess time will tell whether people like you and me are right (that the iOs-iffication of the Mac OS will ultimately turn out to be the wrong direction for Apple).

Either way, I personally am avoiding Lion like the plague. I've got it on my daughters computer but the three Macs I use have SL.
 
Ballmer? Is that you? :confused:

LOL

You're in for quite a shock. Sit back and enjoy watching the next 5-7 years. They'll be all about Apple. (and their iPad.)

Sure. In your living room, on your couch, in your bed room and your toilet. Nowhere else. The same places where you'd use a GameBoy or an Xbox 360. And basically for the same things.

I just don't see people WORKING in offices and other work places with iPads or other tablets instead of notebooks. Tablets have their niche, I give them that. But it's just that: A NICHE.

Without proper and powerful docking stations, real keyboards, mice and other input devices, they will never become a serious replacement for "real" computers.

And in case you haven't noticed it yet, Android tablets are already headed in that direction while Apple doesn't even try. And they probably won't, because they only care for the high-end consumer market and not for the places where people actually NEED good TOOLS (and not toys) to get a job done.

Apple has too many cash reserves to just disappear. But they will fall back into insignificance nonetheless. Just like Nintendo, Sony or other consumer and entertainment companies. The trend won't last and I doubt that they will come up with any fresh great ideas without Jobs at the helm.
 
When they killed OS 9 they at least had a funeral for it. It's sad watching Mac Pros rot to death.

Pretty soon the only way to game on the Mac is going to be to VNC into a gaming-capable Windows machine. Bootcamp is not worth it when your only graphics hardware is some integrated or mobile POS.

Lazy. Overcomplicate your life installing bootcamp and do the gaming.

*Sarcasm off.
 
Sure. In your living room, on your couch, in your bed room and your toilet. Nowhere else.

In the car, on a bus, in the cockpit of a plane, in the cabin of a plane, at school, at university, during presentations at work, during work in general, in hospitals, in the bath, in space, at a coffee shop, in a tank, at a gig etc. ETC. ETC.
 
I have to disagree. Apple's a lot bigger now then they were back then, and whilst many users would still buy an iMac, I for one would certainly not if I could pickup a single quad Mac Pro at $1,499.

There's only one reason why they'd give it a $1,000 premium over other equivalent systems, and that's to distinguish it from the iMac. The dual processor models are similarly priced to the competition, but no matter what processor option you chose the single processor Mac Pro is always about $1,000 more expensive than any other equivalent system.

Disagree or not, that's how it is and still is to this day. The reason the Mac Pro is $1000 starting more than the PowerMac's they replaced is due to the Intel Server chip Apple utilizes; the PowerMacs had a PPC processor, the Mac Pro's went into server territory with chips running $1k+. This is overkill, as a lot of us would rather a i7+, something between the top iMac and Xeon Server class processor.

No, as before it would not cannibalize iMac sales, just because it would for you doesn't mean the average consumer would buy it over an iMac. They didn't before because they don't WANT a tower, consumers like the iMac as it is all they need. Consumers don't need all the options that prosumers/professionals require, and they like the displays built in. A mid-tower that would actually replace the PowerMac would be perfect and a lot of us have been requesting such for a long time.

Think about this: I work in communications and IT. Businesses have thousands, even more, to spend on upgrading their systems. Many in the creative industry; film editors, photographers, design houses, had PowerMac's and ACD CCFL LCD's about 5-6 years ago. When the time came to upgrade, Apple killed Shake, many pro-Apps were ignored that many relied on, and the Mac Pro was $1k+ more than the PowerMac's. Since Many bought 20, 30 systems, that's $20-30,000 more just starting over their previous systems. That's a big chunk to invest into a company that seems to care not for their business any longer. So, a lot have moved on to Windows or Unix, use Avid Media Center or Adobe Premiere Pro as they have worked to keep or get that business Apple has lost which is HUGE. Yes, Apple is raking it in with iOS and consumer level products, but why can't they do BOTH? They have the capital and it would only make them more money. Steve got short sighted, with mobile devices only, and now the market is beginning to be over saturated with Apple goods. China and Japan markets didn't take to Apple devices as well as AAPL estimated, which is a big market Apple hoped to tap into. Many analysts are predicting the "GAP" effect with Apple, meaning too many stores, too quickly, and too many products will eventually slow Apple sales. Maybe not today or tomorrow, but very soon, we've already seen Apple stock beginning to falter.
 
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Apple's made the whole experience of getting professional grade graphics cards a gigantic pain in the a$$. I've always been surprised by it though when Apple used to (when it cared about its professional user base) refer to itself as a company for the media professionals. What a joke.

Unfortunately, that market pales compared to the broader home media market - where Apple is now. Media pros were a nice niche that were less price sensitive because performance mattered, and Apple could carve out a big enough market to make it a decent percentage of their revenue. Today, that's no longer the case.

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T
So a mid-tower system would not cannibalize iMac sales just as the $1500-2000 PowerMac's didn't cannibalize the iMac's in the same price range before Apple went to Intel.

Probably not; but the real questions are:
1) Would it sell enough to be a viable product? The hard core gamers are not really part of Apple's market; nor a big enough slice to warrant producing a machine aimed at them.
2) What would it cannibalize? Would it replace Mac Mini sales? Or would graphic professionals find it powerful enough to replace the Pros? I doubt it would replace a MacBook; but it probably would impact other Macs sales.

In the end, while a mid tower would be nice, I don't see it creating it's own space and expanding sales as much as cannibalizing others; plus given Apple's history of keeping Macs as standard as possible I doubt they'd create a low end configurable model.

I'm not sure iI agree with your iMac assessment - when we bought Macs to replace our aging Mac production equipment for a newspaper we went with PowerMacs because they were cheaper than the equivalent Apple products. I don't doubt other orgs made the same choice.
 
I think it is rather ..$$$$

I have version for Windows. I would buy it again, if it would be cheaper.
I would pay 10,- max for an old game.
 
Yeah, I'll thoroughly enjoy watching grandma and grandpa use their tablet toy while I use my computer to get real work done and then some.

I get work done on both a computer and a tablet. If you aren't able to do that moving forward, better start cleaning up your resume. ;)
 
Yeah, I'll thoroughly enjoy watching grandma and grandpa use their tablet toy while I use my computer to get real work done and then some.

I agree. I can't see tablets becoming anything other than a nice shiney toy.
I honestly don't see what's so good about them apart from dicking about on youtube/the net/checking emails.
 
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