Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
How can it not be a win? They presumably got their overdue royalty payments, an increase in the royalty rate from $7.50 to between $8 to $9 per device, and another long term commitment. Supposedly wanting $15 and getting ~$8 or so can't be considered losing... especially when they were getting $0 in overdue payments, $0 dollars per device in current and future payments, and no commitment for 5G modems. In no version of this tale did Qualcomm not win. That's not to say Apple lost, because they didn't. But you can't honestly put forth an argument where Qualcomm didn't win.
Apple already owed the royalty but was pending due to litigation.

Again, you don't know the terms, so you can't decide it's a loss for Apple. It could also be a win for both companies, but a lot of people here are assuming Apple got creamed. Highly doubtful.
 
  • Like
Reactions: I7guy
Are you defending Apple preemptively?



I could be wrong, but I don't think that is what @I7guy was acting like.
I'm defending the facts. No one knows the terms and $4.5B is a drop in the bucket, particularly if AAPL got the terms they wanted longer term.

Apple will drop QCOM like a bad habit in time anyway.
 
Of course it did. Qualcomm gave apple the products it needed and in return apple broke their agreement and payed nothing. That's called a scam and there's no way to defend apple in this.
Not going to rehash this but Apple is not thinking it just decided not to pay Qualcomm because...
 
Honestly, I expected Apple to have bought Qualcomm, take their patents and R&D team, and fire the entire executive team just to spite them.

Seems like something Apple would do, just saying.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BlandUsername
Nope. Apple didn't cave at at. ;)


https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/01/qualcomm-expects-at-least-4point5-billion-from-apple-settlement.html

Qualcomm said on Wednesday that it expects to receive $4.5 billion to $4.7 billion from its royalty settlement with Apple,

The detail, disclosed in Qualcomm’s second-quarter earnings report, shows that Apple paid a high price to end a legal battle between the two tech giants that spanned multiple continents and threatened Apple’s ability to release a 5G iPhone.
 
No one knows for sure, but everyone can make educated guesses, and most people guess Apple lost, and they are probably right.

Even an educated guess requires a significant amount of information... Otherwise it's just a guess.. AKA making stuff up. There is not a significant amount of information publicly available. Without knowing the terms of the agreement or how much Apple owed Qualcomm from withheld payments how can you make an educated guess?
 
More confirmation apple was lying about being overcharged.

How did you even remotely come to that conclusion with so little additional information?

https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-plotted-to-hurt-qualcomm-years-before-it-sued-the-company/

Apple allegedly 'plotted' to hurt Qualcomm years before it sued the company

Before Apple ever filed suit against Qualcomm, the iPhone maker allegedly wanted to hurt the company. And it put those plans down in documents obtained by Qualcomm as the two companies prepared to meet in court.

Slides with details of those documents -- viewed by reporters in court, including CNET -- have now been made public. You can see the full slides here (and below).

In September 2014, a document from Apple titled "QCOM - Future scenarios" detailed ways the company could exert pressure on Qualcomm, including by working with Intel on 4G modems for the iPhone. Apple and its manufacturing partners didn't actually file suit against Qualcomm until more than two years later. A second page of that document, titled "QCM - Options and recommendations (2/2)" revealed that Apple considered it "beneficial to wait to provoke a patent fight until after the end of 2016," when its contracts with Qualcomm would expire.

"They were plotting it for two years," Qualcomm attorney Evan Chesler, of the firm Cravath, Swaine & Moore, said during his opening arguments last week. "It was all planned in advance. Every bit of it."

Another Apple internal document from June 2016 said the company wanted to "create leverage by building pressure three ways," according to a slide shown in court. The internal document said, in part, that Apple wanted to "hurt Qualcomm financially" and "put Qualcomm's business model at risk."

Apple had purchased Qualcomm modems for its iPhones for years until the falling out. One 2009 memo said Qualcomm is "widely considered the owner of the strongest patent portfolio for essential and relevant patents for wireless standards."

"Engineering wise, they have been the best," Johny Srouji, Apple's head of semiconductors, said in a March 2015 email.

The earlier memo also noted that while more than half of Qualcomm's patent portfolio was communications and silicon engineering, it "has more significant holdings in other areas, including many areas relevant to Apple." That included media processing, non-cellular communications and hardware. Apple had argued in its lawsuit that Qualcomm's technology was only used in its modem and it shouldn't be forced to pay Qualcomm royalties for innovations it had nothing to do with.
 
The only losers in this were the lawyers on both sides who won't be getting paid to fight any more and Intel who are looking more and more pathetic each year.
From yesterdays news: "Apple believes its Mac revenue would have increased this quarter, but was down 5% due to processor constraints"
Can't be long now until Apple is an ARM only house.

Here is a statement that I can agree with :)
 
Apple already owed the royalty but was pending due to litigation.

Again, you don't know the terms, so you can't decide it's a loss for Apple. It could also be a win for both companies, but a lot of people here are assuming Apple got creamed. Highly doubtful.
Please re-read my quote. Nothing in it implies I know the terms of the agreement. It's why I used words like presumably and supposedly. Nothing in my quote implies a loss for Apple. In fact my quote explicitly says the opposite. I openly stated they didn't lose. My point was you can't provide a basis to say Qualcomm didn't win.
 
https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-plotted-to-hurt-qualcomm-years-before-it-sued-the-company/

Apple allegedly 'plotted' to hurt Qualcomm years before it sued the company

Before Apple ever filed suit against Qualcomm, the iPhone maker allegedly wanted to hurt the company. And it put those plans down in documents obtained by Qualcomm as the two companies prepared to meet in court.

Slides with details of those documents -- viewed by reporters in court, including CNET -- have now been made public. You can see the full slides here (and below).

In September 2014, a document from Apple titled "QCOM - Future scenarios" detailed ways the company could exert pressure on Qualcomm, including by working with Intel on 4G modems for the iPhone. Apple and its manufacturing partners didn't actually file suit against Qualcomm until more than two years later. A second page of that document, titled "QCM - Options and recommendations (2/2)" revealed that Apple considered it "beneficial to wait to provoke a patent fight until after the end of 2016," when its contracts with Qualcomm would expire.

"They were plotting it for two years," Qualcomm attorney Evan Chesler, of the firm Cravath, Swaine & Moore, said during his opening arguments last week. "It was all planned in advance. Every bit of it."

Another Apple internal document from June 2016 said the company wanted to "create leverage by building pressure three ways," according to a slide shown in court. The internal document said, in part, that Apple wanted to "hurt Qualcomm financially" and "put Qualcomm's business model at risk."

Apple had purchased Qualcomm modems for its iPhones for years until the falling out. One 2009 memo said Qualcomm is "widely considered the owner of the strongest patent portfolio for essential and relevant patents for wireless standards."

"Engineering wise, they have been the best," Johny Srouji, Apple's head of semiconductors, said in a March 2015 email.

The earlier memo also noted that while more than half of Qualcomm's patent portfolio was communications and silicon engineering, it "has more significant holdings in other areas, including many areas relevant to Apple." That included media processing, non-cellular communications and hardware. Apple had argued in its lawsuit that Qualcomm's technology was only used in its modem and it shouldn't be forced to pay Qualcomm royalties for innovations it had nothing to do with.

How is the settlement "More confirmation apple was lying about being overcharged"?

While I like most Apple products, I think Apple as a company is a bit of a Dick. Overcharged itself is a value judgement. Is it generally accepted Apple was charged a fair amount? People that are overcharged tend to get cranky so Apple acting in an unsavory manner is what a company that feels like they are being overcharged might do. I like a "Matter of fact" statement to be clearly supported facts that don't require major leaps and I'm not seeing how you get there.

Your conclusion could be correct but your premise doesn't seem solid in my opinion.
 
  • Like
Reactions: I7guy
Sounds like UBS analyst Timothy Arcuri was right on the mark when he said Apple paid Qualcomm between $5 billion and $6 billion to settle the litigation. Qualcomm owed Apple $1B so Apple is writing a check for $4.5B.

He also suggested Apple paid between $8 and $9 in patent royalties per device, a huge win for Qualcomm given the growth in LTE Watch and iPad.

Your math is suspect.

If Apple is currently paying $7.50 for 4G modems (which is what Apple claimed), and now gets 5G (which also includes 4G for compatibility) for $8-9, then it means Apple is only paying between $0.50-1.50 for 5G. Seems like a bargain to me.

Qualcomm stated back in Oct 2018 that Apple owed $7 billion in withheld royalties. Minus the $1 billion Apple won in a previous ruling leaves $6 billion. The actual amount was $4.5 billion so that "analyst" was off a whopping $1.5 billion.

Looks like he wasn't right AT ALL.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jhfenton and FFR
2CED7D9A-DD64-46D3-A98E-A0622BE5DD11.gif



Well, now that that is sorted.

So, nothing for AAPL, particularly if they get a long term deal they find favorable.

Remember kids, the $4.5B is likely just royalty payments Apple stopped making during litigation and they are paying QCOM to make them whole on previously agreed terms. This isn't like a $4.5B bonus for QCOM.

So don't start coming in here saying Apple lost and all that. No one knows the terms.

QCOM -5% after earnings.
 
Honestly sounds like a win for both - much to what Cook eluded to on the call.

Apple gets out of some major payments, most presumably locks in a rate ratio for modems and Qualcomm gets a higher price/better percentage chunk than negotiation was getting them, some reimbursement in the short term, and the largest manufacturer (that's not currently producing their own modems) to push their modems exclusively worldwide, which is a big deal as 5G threatens to redistribute the power among telecommunications companies.
 
  • Like
Reactions: chabig
They weren’t forced. By virtue of the settlement, which could have resulted in a protracted legal battle had they not settled, they (Apple) settled and that means voluntarily handing over the money.
It would be "voluntarily" if Qualcomm did not sue Apple and Apple decided to pay them anyways. What we have here is as voluntary as a shotgun wedding.
 
Your math is suspect.

If Apple is currently paying $7.50 for 4G modems (which is what Apple claimed), and now gets 5G (which also includes 4G for compatibility) for $8-9, then it means Apple is only paying between $0.50-1.50 for 5G. Seems like a bargain to me.

Qualcomm stated back in Oct 2018 that Apple owed $7 billion in withheld royalties. Minus the $1 billion Apple won in a previous ruling leaves $6 billion. The actual amount was $4.5 billion so that "analyst" was off a whopping $1.5 billion.

Looks like he wasn't right AT ALL.
Apple claimed that Qualcomm "double dipping" was illegal and they did not have to pay them any royalties at all:

Now Apple has broadened its own attack. It told a U.S. court that Qualcomm’s licensing agreement, which allows it to claim a cut of every iPhone sold, is invalid. If Apple is successful, it could put a stop to Qualcomm’s longstanding business model.

In the settlement they agreed to pay the royalties. Clearly Apple lost to Qualcomm. You can't spin them out of this predicament.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.